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I wouldn't accept a bitcoin for anything of value, unless I got it for 10 cents on the alleged dollar value, and I wouldn't hold it more than a day.
Let me get this straight. You would ask someone to give you a Bitcoin, you would give them $60, and then turn around and sell it immediately for $600? But you wouldn't give more than $60?

Even the fiat US currency has value, backed by the full faith and credit of the government
That phrase literally means nothing except that the U.S. government wants its taxes is FRNs.

and hundreds of years of use and acceptance literally in every corner of the world. It's recognized and taken everywhere. Maybe not forever. But at least for now and in the foreseeable future.
Granted, Bitcoin and similar currencies don't yet have the acceptance rates of government-backed currency, but that's changing rapidly.

A collapse of the US dollar and US government is certainly possible, but pretty unlikely.
That's highly debatable.

Bitcoin is nothing but an idea.
Actually, it's a complex set of computer algorithms. And your FRN is nothing but cotton paper or a digital number somewhere.

Can you sue someone, force someone to honor it, hold someone accountable, demand payment?
Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, so you only exchange it when you are confident in the other party. Many are suggesting that retailers use a 3rd party 'broker' to hold the Bitcoin in question for some period before they actually take ownership, but that's a work in progress.

I don't even know how I would get one, or who would take one.
Use Google.

Can I carry it in my pocket, use it anywhere locally at the store or elsewhere?
Yes, you can carry it in your pocket, and many retailers accept it right now, including Target.

What prevents manipulation and dumping of the price of it? Is it regulated?
Its value cannot be 'manipulated'; it is controlled by the free market saying what it's 'worth' in real-time.

By "regulated," you mean "government controlled," and no it isn't. That's a big positive for many people.

It just has the look and feel and sense of a ponzi scheme and someone will be left holding the bag.
Actually, it's the opposite of a Ponzi scheme. While there has been a lot of fluctuation in Bitcoin's value relative to FRNs over its lifespan, this has largely stabilized, and its long-term price continues to go up. This is because there is greater demand than supply (only 25 new Bitcoins every ten minutes).

What prevents every person from creating some fiction "currency" and jacking up prices?
Anyone CAN create currency. Governments are not the only source of currency, not by a long shot.

When you buy tokens at your local state fair, those tokens are currency in a very real way.

For currency to be effective, a significant number of people must be willing to accept it. That's the only thing that Bitcoin or FRNs have going for them.

Let's say I buy up all the known XYZ baseball cards for 1 penny each creating rarity and then I set the value of them at $10000 each. That doesn't make them valuable or accepted anywhere, it's just similar nonsense.
Again, FRNs, Euros, Yen, or any other currency out there is the same way. They are only valuable because people think they are.

Stated otherwise, bitcoin value will drop out overnight one of these days far sooner than the US dollar, silver, gold, bullets, guns, etc.
Again, that's debatable.
 

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Let me get this straight. You would ask someone to give you a Bitcoin, you would give them $60, and then turn around and sell it immediately for $600? But you wouldn't give more than $60?



That phrase literally means nothing except that the U.S. government wants its taxes is FRNs.



Granted, Bitcoin and similar currencies don't yet have the acceptance rates of government-backed currency, but that's changing rapidly.



That's highly debatable.



Actually, it's a complex set of computer algorithms. And your FRN is nothing but cotton paper or a digital number somewhere.



Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, so you only exchange it when you are confident in the other party. Many are suggesting that retailers use a 3rd party 'broker' to hold the Bitcoin in question for some period before they actually take ownership, but that's a work in progress.



Use Google.



Yes, you can carry it in your pocket, and many retailers accept it right now, including Target.



Its value cannot be 'manipulated'; it is controlled by the free market saying what it's 'worth' in real-time.

By "regulated," you mean "government controlled," and no it isn't. That's a big positive for many people.



Actually, it's the opposite of a Ponzi scheme. While there has been a lot of fluctuation in Bitcoin's value relative to FRNs over its lifespan, this has largely stabilized, and its long-term price continues to go up. This is because there is greater demand than supply (only 25 new Bitcoins every ten minutes).



Anyone CAN create currency. Governments are not the only source of currency, not by a long shot.

When you buy tokens at your local state fair, those tokens are currency in a very real way.

For currency to be effective, a significant number of people must be willing to accept it. That's the only thing that Bitcoin or FRNs have going for them.



Again, FRNs, Euros, Yen, or any other currency out there is the same way. They are only valuable because people think they are.



Again, that's debatable.
One nit is that the government also pays in FRN. 6.36 trillion in 2015.
 

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No currency has value unless people think it's valuable.

There are only two things that give FRNs any value.
1. .Gov wants their pound of flesh in FRNs.
2. Billions of people think it's valuable.

BTC doesn't satisfy the government, but nothing else will (for now) aside from FRNs.

Granted, the number of people who find BTC valuable is a lot less than those who want FRNs, but the number is growing and is already sufficient to drive the price to $600. And as an increasing number of people use it and an increasing number of retailers accept it, it will likely gain more traction.

I agree that it's risky right now, but there's no doubt in my mind that digital currency is the wave of the future, whether we like it or not.



This simply isn't true. There has been a lot of fluctuation in its value over time, but people that bought BTC this time last year got a 250% return on their money if they sold out for FRNs today. Like anything else, it just all depends on when you buy and sell.
Exactly what Madoff's investors believed too. There is nothing backing BTC to give it value but false hope. What gives FRN value is the USA and it's continuity of government. It's debt issued by the government and it's in high demand. BTC is like western union. You give them some money and a premium for handling the transaction. So who gets the cash when new BTC are added to the economy? I wonder if there is enough FRN available to buy them all back, just in case vendors stop taking them.
 
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It's that price for the same reason that your Federal Reserve notes can buy anything: that is the equilibrium point between people who think that it's worth more than that and the people who think that it's worth less than that. Economics 101.

The dollar, like any other debt-backed fiat currency, is only valuable because people think it is.

Rope, sticks, shells, salt, and many other items have been used as currency throughout history. Nothing tangible is actually needed though, as digital 'dollars' and Bitcoin both illustrate. All currencies serve as a kind of tally system to track who has what.

Precious metals have some industrial value, but that alone is not sufficient to hold their prices at their current level.



It's sad that in our current environment, if someone wants genuine privacy with any aspect of their life, they are looked at with suspicion of wrongdoing. Especially with the 4th amendment.

The good thing about Bitcoin is that it can be completely opaque to the Feds or anyone. They don't know who has what, and that scares the crap out of them.

I personally hope that Bitcoin continues to succeed, and I'm watching it rather closely, but I haven't decided to buy into it yet. A 51% attack by the big Russian consortium concerns me.
BitCoin is opaque, but buying/selling is not.
If you buy/sell through a broker, or if a broker holds your Bitcoin wallet, they ask for your name, address, SS#.
 

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If were both on the brink of starving to death and I have a some food and you have some gold, who's richer?

Gold only has value because people keep insisting its valuable. Just like anything else. I understand trading gold and silver as an investment, physically owning gold seems silly.
Depends on which SHTF scenario a person is prepping for.
-If you are talking Armageddon, food and ammo will reign supreme.
-In a simple financial crisis, gold should appreciate in value much faster than food inflates.
-If the Russians hack the NY stock exchange, physical gold will be the top investment.
Since no-one knows which scenario will eventually happen, it makes sense to have beans, bullets, physical gold, Bitcoin, and cash on a percentage basis that allows the prepper to sleep well at night.
 

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Exactly what Madoff's investors believed too. There is nothing backing BTC to give it value but false hope. What gives FRN value is the USA and it's continuity of government. It's debt issued by the government and it's in high demand. BTC is like western union. You give them some money and a premium for handling the transaction. So who gets the cash when new BTC are added to the economy? I wonder if there is enough FRN available to buy them all back, just in case vendors stop taking them.
Anything from seashells to salt to knots in rope and much more has served as currency throughout recorded history.

At its core, any currency is just a tallying system. Imagine that there is one big book that records every value transaction in an entire economy. When I sell you something, your tally of X goes down by that much and mine goes up. It doesn't matter what X is as long as you and I are both willing to do it.

FRNs, Euros, Yen, Yuan, Bitcoin, and every other currency out there are built on the exact same premise in that they serve as a tallying system. Someone is willing to sell their tally of Euros for FRNs, for instance, or give FRNs for Bitcoin.

The three things that seem to make people the most nervous about Bitcoin are (1) it's not government controlled or regulated, which is actually a GOOD thing, (2) it's almost strictly digital (you can put Bitcoins on paper), and (3) it's not as widely accepted as FRNs. But none of those things prevent it from being a currency. Is it the 'best' currency out there? No, and very few are saying that it is. Is it potentially a very good currency? Absolutely.

When the 25 new Bitcoins are created, they are simply added in the ledger to the winning miner's account, which is really no different from the bank loaning you money in the fractional reserve system; there are no FRNs exchanging hands until someone else wants to buy the Bitcoins from someone else. The big difference is that no more than 25 new Bitcoins are created every ten minutes or so, so the total supply is increasing at a known, finite rate.

Don't forget that as long as you are married to your FRNs, you're married to the Federal Reserve, the U.S. Treasury, and all the baggage that goes with it. Until we break ourselves apart from government-controlled currency, we will always be their servants, and they know it very well.
 

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I'm married to my wife and I support my country. What I don't do is fall for ponzi schemes. If no one is buying the new coins, then they are 1) not being added to the supply - it just means someone is able to sell 25 new coins. The same as authorized vs issued stock., 2) If BTC are just dumped into the system - with no buyers (btw: borrowing money from the bank is buying money) then BTC is being diluted and only so much the total "value" is no spread over more BTC. No different then when the government dumps additional currency into the system when there is no demand for more.

But if you don't like your FRNs, you can always find someone willing to take them off your hands. That's why ponzi schemes never go away.
 

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I'm married to my wife and I support my country. What I don't do is fall for ponzi schemes. If no one is buying the new coins, then they are 1) not being added to the supply - it just means someone is able to sell 25 new coins. The same as authorized vs issued stock., 2) If BTC are just dumped into the system - with no buyers (btw: borrowing money from the bank is buying money) then BTC is being diluted and only so much the total "value" is no spread over more BTC. No different then when the government dumps additional currency into the system when there is no demand for more.

But if you don't like your FRNs, you can always find someone willing to take them off your hands. That's why ponzi schemes never go away.
Please don't take offense, but it's clear that you don't really understand how modern currencies work in our fractional reserve banking system, how FRNs are created, and how Bitcoin works.

There are roughly 15 million Bitcoins in circulation already. 3,600 added to the supply every day does essentially nothing to the price of the existing Bitcoins because it's only .00024% being added daily. This is no different from those who mine physical gold; they aren't doing so fast enough to hurt the price of gold.

But Bitcoin's price is still headed upward because the number of people using it is going up much faster than the amount of new Bitcoin added to the supply.

And if you don't like your Bitcoin, you can easily find a buyer. Remember that the price of Bitcoin has gone from 10,000 for one pizza to $600 per each over the course of several years.

If you think that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then you really need to reconsider every major currency out there; by your definition, they are all Ponzi schemes, and it's only a question as to how many people have bought into it. The Federal Reserve can literally create as many FRNs as they want, when they want, and that is simply impossible with Bitcoin.

I would really encourage you to watch this video from Stefan Molyneux about Bitcoin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY
 

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Please don't take offense, but it's clear that you don't really understand how modern currencies work in our fractional reserve banking system, how FRNs are created, and how Bitcoin works.

There are roughly 15 million Bitcoins in circulation already. 3,600 added to the supply every day does essentially nothing to the price of the existing Bitcoins because it's only .00024% being added daily. This is no different from those who mine physical gold; they aren't doing so fast enough to hurt the price of gold.

But Bitcoin's price is still headed upward because the number of people using it is going up much faster than the amount of new Bitcoin added to the supply.

And if you don't like your Bitcoin, you can easily find a buyer. Remember that the price of Bitcoin has gone from 10,000 for one pizza to $600 per each over the course of several years.

If you think that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then you really need to reconsider every major currency out there; by your definition, they are all Ponzi schemes, and it's only a question as to how many people have bought into it. The Federal Reserve can literally create as many FRNs as they want, when they want, and that is simply impossible with Bitcoin.

I would really encourage you to watch this video from Stefan Molyneux about Bitcoin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY

ROFLMAO. "I don't understand." Good one. Nah, I understand very well. But you can go right on believing in BTC. I love how it's value gets measured in USD or some other currency that is supposedly worthless or not stable. Enjoy your BTC. Madoff got away with his con for a long time. His investors were his best salesmen.
 

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ROFLMAO. "I don't understand." Good one. Nah, I understand very well.
Yes, your comments regarding BTC (i.e. it's value being diluted from the addition of new Bitcoin to the supply) are very clear evidence that you don't understand it.

But you can go right on believing in BTC. I love how it's value gets measured in USD or some other currency that is supposedly worthless or not stable. Enjoy your BTC. Madoff got away with his con for a long time. His investors were his best salesmen.
I haven't personally invested in BTC at all, so I'm not trying to defend a decision to invest in it. It's just that you and others are trying to make it out to be something that it isn't.

And whether you like it or not, digital currency is the wave of the future, whether it's digital dollars, Bitcoin, or something else. Paper currency's days are numbered, for better or worse.
 

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Yes, your comments regarding BTC (i.e. it's value being diluted from the addition of new Bitcoin to the supply) are very clear evidence that you don't understand it.



I haven't personally invested in BTC at all, so I'm not trying to defend a decision to invest in it. It's just that you and others are trying to make it out to be something that it isn't.

And whether you like it or not, digital currency is the wave of the future, whether it's digital dollars, Bitcoin, or something else. Paper currency's days are numbered, for better or worse.
I never said anything about "digital currency". Credit cards have been around for decades. I never said paper currency was forever. But I think BTC is a ponzi scheme. But only the future knows.
 
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If you think that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then you really need to reconsider every major currency out there; by your definition, they are all Ponzi schemes, and it's only a question as to how many people have bought into it. The Federal Reserve can literally create as many FRNs as they want, when they want, and that is simply impossible with Bitcoin.[/url]
1. Yes, they ARE ponzi schemes, it's just that they have many MORE people who've bought in, so they will take longer to fall.

2. No, they (Bitcoins) are ADVERTISED as "fixed supply" this is not a reality if certain individuals choose to do otherwise at ANY given time, and no one would know in time to do anything about it.
 

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I never said anything about "digital currency". Credit cards have been around for decades. I never said paper currency was forever. But I think BTC is a ponzi scheme. But only the future knows.
Perhaps you should research Bitcoin more thoroughly, or Ponzi Schemes. Because you don't understand at least one of them. They are not similar at all.
 

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Original creators (since they are made out of electrons, with nothing backing them) create more either with or without false block chain history, and trade them for real wealth.
(Although to be fair there's a very large chance it's already happened.)
All of Bitcoin's coding is open-source; I find it extremely unlikely that there's a 'back door' left by the creator(s), especially since the blockchain (master ledger that tracks which user has how much) is constantly being verified by people around the world.

It's not impossible, but I believe it to be highly unlikely.
 

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Any "money" given to you by letting your computer process data you have no idea about is shady as hell. I would not take part in it nor will I accept it as the "wave of the future."

You could easily be processing all the data stolen from spying and you wouldn't even know.

I wonder if we had a Puerto Rico power outage for a week, how I would be buying food with bitcoin.
 

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Any "money" given to you by letting your computer process data you have no idea about is shady as hell. I would not take part in it nor will I accept it as the "wave of the future."

You could easily be processing all the data stolen from spying and you wouldn't even know.

I wonder if we had a Puerto Rico power outage for a week, how I would be buying food with bitcoin.
Whether you accept it or not, digital currency is coming, and there is literally nothing that you or I can do about it. Heck over 90% of the dollars in the Federal Reserve system are ALREADY electronic only. And most people, including here on SB, have little to no idea how their dollars were created in the first place.

As with others, your comments are indicative of the fact that you haven't research cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. I'm not a miner, so I'm not 'processing' anything.

If you just don't like something, that's fine, but don't go spouting off about something that you know little/nothing about.

And by the way, what you do you think things would be here in the U.S. if the grid were down for a week? The word 'riot' isn't remotely strong enough to describe the ensuing chaos that would erupt.
 
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