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Sic Semper Tyrannis
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You seriously think that all economic activity will grind to a halt across the entire globe? And that's your "most likely" scenario?

Sounds like the beginning of a good survival fiction book.
I never said anything would grind to a halt, I said an economic collapse, meaning your money has no value.

What's more likely? EMP, natural disaster the zombie apocolypse?

Economic collapse is entirely plausible.
 

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Having some coin of the realm(whatever type) is a great idea for prepping, but it is the tangable items that will get you through. Land, that has water, that you can build on, should be number 1 priority. A good larder and medicine cabinet and or course protection firearms. Knowledge of survival will be much better than usless bits of paper, money that can be acessed by computer when they are all down, won't help much.
Spread out your preps and don't keep them all in one basket.
My family had land outside Beijing worth millions today that the communists confiscated. Gold not land is what saved their lives.

I have the deed for that land which is worth only the the paper it is printed on

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My family had land outside Beijing worth millions today that the communists confiscated. Gold not land is what saved their lives.

I have the deed for that land which is worth only the the paper it is printed on

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They would have took the gold if they had found it.

Ferfal talks about surviving his SHTF and how gold helps get you out of the area. But that assumes there is somewhere else to go. What do you do when "somewhere else" is no different then where you are? Gold is like any other prep - it all depends on what the SHTF event is that will determine what is the best prep.
 

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Wrong Side of Heaven
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When you are running carry the highest denomination material vs weight you can, and expect to get pennies on the dollar. Merchants used to sew gems and coins into their clothes to get past bandits. Look how they smuggle stuff into prisons today, they would be hard pressed (intended) to hide that #10 can of chili.

I am getting ready for a 700 mile move and have been paring down and can not imagine having to bug out and what would be left behind. Castles failed with old tech, I do not think anyone could hold today verses a determined adversary, but that doesn't mean I wont try and make running a last resort, not a first response. I keep a small amount of run funds as part of my BOB plan but its not stored in the bag, some loose cash yea. So don't keep everything in the safe, **** I dread moving that thing again, I may even leave a cache I have for family that stays behind this move.
 

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I never said anything would grind to a halt, I said an economic collapse, meaning your money has no value.

What's more likely? EMP, natural disaster the zombie apocolypse?

Economic collapse is entirely plausible.
If money has no value, economic activity grinds to a halt, especially if it's on your "world wide" scale. You're out of SHTF territory there. SHTF is a hurricane, or job-loss, or localized civil unrest. You're talking end of the world stuff which is extremely difficult to plan for.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Who are you going to pay taxes to if SHTF? That makes no sense.
Instead of imagining what it could be like, why not just study what's happening in Venezuelas economic collapse?

- They are going to through crazy hyperinflation.
- 1oz of silver will buy you 6 months of food and 1oz of gold will buy you a house
- The government is still there
- People are eating zoo animals cause no one has money.

Yes it's smart to have food preps, but again, most people already have that if they are prepping with PMs. My suggestion to you is, but 5oz of silver while they are cheap. Like they mentioned before, you need to diversify.
 

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A few posters have commented on the value of a Bitcoin and why it has value. There are things that give it value:

1. Production is limited. Once all Bitcoin are completely mined there will be 21 million, that's all. This won't happen for another 100+ years but the production timeline is in place.

2. It is backed something. The Blockchain backing Bitcoin is a public registrar of all the collective Bitcoin transactions and accounting thus far. Massive Bitcoin dedicated processing centers have been running the Bitcoin algorithm for years now. All of this work is what gives and continues to build Bitcoin's security.

You can compare Bitcoin to PMs by the way that work has to be done to create them. For PMs you have to have a mine to extract them. With Bitcoin the processing centers are the 'miners'. Bitcoin is inflation proof in the same way PMs are because there isn't a central bank that can just make more when they want to. Because of this Bitcoin is not a unit of debt, like a FRN.

3. Fast and cheap worldwide transactions. You can send 10k Bitcoin just as easy as you can send .5 Bitcoin for the price of just a few cents if even that. If you try to send 50k in dollars somewhere there are all kinds of regulatory oversight and transaction fees that are very costly in time and money. This is the feature that gives Bitcoin flexibility and usefulness that PMs cannot.

4. They can be an option for money in places where bank services don't exist. All you need is a cell phone to make a Bitcoin transaction.

The only thing Bitcoin lacks to become a viable money option is worldwide acceptance as money. By the time everybody has a Bitcoin wallet they will be several tens of thousands of dollars apiece.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
A few posters have commented on the value of a Bitcoin and why it has value. There are things that give it value:

1. Production is limited. Once all Bitcoin are completely mined there will be 21 million, that's all. This won't happen for another 100+ years but the production timeline is in place.

2. It is backed something. The Blockchain backing Bitcoin is a public registrar of all the collective Bitcoin transactions and accounting thus far. Massive Bitcoin dedicated processing centers have been running the Bitcoin algorithm for years now. All of this work is what gives and continues to build Bitcoin's security.

You can compare Bitcoin to PMs by the way that work has to be done to create them. For PMs you have to have a mine to extract them. With Bitcoin the processing centers are the 'miners'. Bitcoin is inflation proof in the same way PMs are because there isn't a central bank that can just make more when they want to. Because of this Bitcoin is not a unit of debt, like a FRN.

3. Fast and cheap worldwide transactions. You can send 10k Bitcoin just as easy as you can send .5 Bitcoin for the price of just a few cents if even that. If you try to send 50k in dollars somewhere there are all kinds of regulatory oversight and transaction fees that are very costly in time and money. This is the feature that gives Bitcoin flexibility and usefulness that PMs cannot.

4. They can be an option for money in places where bank services don't exist. All you need is a cell phone to make a Bitcoin transaction.

The only thing Bitcoin lacks to become a viable money option is worldwide acceptance as money. By the time everybody has a Bitcoin wallet they will be several tens of thousands of dollars apiece.
What my head can't wrap around is why isn't SILVER the same price. It has everything you meantioned PLUS industrial use.
 

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Those running the show have controlled the prices of PMs to protect the perceived value of it, yet they have no way to really do much with Bitcoin unless they want to buy in big to make it go up or sell big to make it go down. They have their hands full as it is and Bitcoin isn't currently a threat to the dollar.
 

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A few posters have commented on the value of a Bitcoin and why it has value. There are things that give it value:

1. Production is limited. Once all Bitcoin are completely mined there will be 21 million, that's all. This won't happen for another 100+ years but the production timeline is in place.

2. It is backed something. The Blockchain backing Bitcoin is a public registrar of all the collective Bitcoin transactions and accounting thus far. Massive Bitcoin dedicated processing centers have been running the Bitcoin algorithm for years now. All of this work is what gives and continues to build Bitcoin's security.

You can compare Bitcoin to PMs by the way that work has to be done to create them. For PMs you have to have a mine to extract them. With Bitcoin the processing centers are the 'miners'. Bitcoin is inflation proof in the same way PMs are because there isn't a central bank that can just make more when they want to. Because of this Bitcoin is not a unit of debt, like a FRN.

3. Fast and cheap worldwide transactions. You can send 10k Bitcoin just as easy as you can send .5 Bitcoin for the price of just a few cents if even that. If you try to send 50k in dollars somewhere there are all kinds of regulatory oversight and transaction fees that are very costly in time and money. This is the feature that gives Bitcoin flexibility and usefulness that PMs cannot.

4. They can be an option for money in places where bank services don't exist. All you need is a cell phone to make a Bitcoin transaction.

The only thing Bitcoin lacks to become a viable money option is worldwide acceptance as money. By the time everybody has a Bitcoin wallet they will be several tens of thousands of dollars apiece.
Sounds like Bernie Maddoff didn't have the best ponzi scheme after all.
 

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^ #2 Is incorrect. To say the "chain of custody" is backing bitcoin is to show ignorance as to what the term is refering to

And while land is good (I have land and like having land) gold IS easier to hide....
 

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What my head can't wrap around is why isn't SILVER the same price. It has everything you meantioned PLUS industrial use.
Supply and demand for one.

I dig PMs too, but they can't compete with Bitcoin for ease of transactions, especially online and international. Further, your Bitcoin is as safe as you make it. The reports you here are of people hacking into 'holding groups' (i.e. 'banks') and stealing the BTC there.

But Coinbase has a very secure method that is nearly impossible to crack. Your BTC is stored in an encrypted vault that needs two of three possible keys to open. Coinbase holds one of these, and you hold the other two, preferably in separate locations. Without at least two of the keys, it is impossible to hack into the vault to get your BTC. So as long as your keys are secure (you could theoretically destroy one of them and just memorize the other, but what if you forget it?), your BTC is safe.

There are almost 16 million Bitcoins in circulation, with 25 more being added every ten minutes. The pace of new Bitcoins added is factored in to get slower over time.
 

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A few posters have commented on the value of a Bitcoin and why it has value. There are things that give it value:

1. Production is limited. Once all Bitcoin are completely mined there will be 21 million, that's all. This won't happen for another 100+ years but the production timeline is in place.

2. It is backed something. The Blockchain backing Bitcoin is a public registrar of all the collective Bitcoin transactions and accounting thus far. Massive Bitcoin dedicated processing centers have been running the Bitcoin algorithm for years now. All of this work is what gives and continues to build Bitcoin's security.

You can compare Bitcoin to PMs by the way that work has to be done to create them. For PMs you have to have a mine to extract them. With Bitcoin the processing centers are the 'miners'. Bitcoin is inflation proof in the same way PMs are because there isn't a central bank that can just make more when they want to. Because of this Bitcoin is not a unit of debt, like a FRN.

3. Fast and cheap worldwide transactions. You can send 10k Bitcoin just as easy as you can send .5 Bitcoin for the price of just a few cents if even that. If you try to send 50k in dollars somewhere there are all kinds of regulatory oversight and transaction fees that are very costly in time and money. This is the feature that gives Bitcoin flexibility and usefulness that PMs cannot.

4. They can be an option for money in places where bank services don't exist. All you need is a cell phone to make a Bitcoin transaction.

The only thing Bitcoin lacks to become a viable money option is worldwide acceptance as money. By the time everybody has a Bitcoin wallet they will be several tens of thousands of dollars apiece.
None of this gives it value. What it does is gives you a "feeling". Madoff gave his clients a "feeling" also. Bitcoins remind me of ENRON. If they were so great, we normal folks couldn't afford to buy one. The demand would be too high by the institutional investors. The only people going to benefit from bitcoins are the founders of bitcoins and the early investors that got in and out. There is less substance behind bitcoin then any FRN.
 

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None of this gives it value.
No currency has value unless people think it's valuable.

There are only two things that give FRNs any value.
1. .Gov wants their pound of flesh in FRNs.
2. Billions of people think it's valuable.

BTC doesn't satisfy the government, but nothing else will (for now) aside from FRNs.

Granted, the number of people who find BTC valuable is a lot less than those who want FRNs, but the number is growing and is already sufficient to drive the price to $600. And as an increasing number of people use it and an increasing number of retailers accept it, it will likely gain more traction.

I agree that it's risky right now, but there's no doubt in my mind that digital currency is the wave of the future, whether we like it or not.

The only people going to benefit from bitcoins are the founders of bitcoins and the early investors that got in and out.
This simply isn't true. There has been a lot of fluctuation in its value over time, but people that bought BTC this time last year got a 250% return on their money if they sold out for FRNs today. Like anything else, it just all depends on when you buy and sell.
 

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Comic, not your lawyer!
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I wouldn't accept a bitcoin for anything of value, unless I got it for 10 cents on the alleged dollar value, and I wouldn't hold it more than a day.

Even the fiat US currency has value, backed by the full faith and credit of the government and hundreds of years of use and acceptance literally in every corner of the world. It's recognized and taken everywhere. Maybe not forever. But at least for now and in the foreseeable future.

A collapse of the US dollar and US government is certainly possible, but pretty unlikely.

Bitcoin is nothing but an idea. Can you sue someone, force someone to honor it, hold someone accountable, demand payment? I don't even know how I would get one, or who would take one. Can I carry it in my pocket, use it anywhere locally at the store or elsewhere? What prevents manipulation and dumping of the price of it? Is it regulated?

It just has the look and feel and sense of a ponzi scheme and someone will be left holding the bag.

What prevents every person from creating some fiction "currency" and jacking up prices? Let's say I buy up all the known XYZ baseball cards for 1 penny each creating rarity and then I set the value of them at $10000 each. That doesn't make them valuable or accepted anywhere, it's just similar nonsense.

Stated otherwise, bitcoin value will drop out overnight one of these days far sooner than the US dollar, silver, gold, bullets, guns, etc.
 

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If were both on the brink of starving to death and I have a some food and you have some gold, who's richer?

Gold only has value because people keep insisting its valuable. Just like anything else. I understand trading gold and silver as an investment, physically owning gold seems silly.
Its a sliding scale of disaster; its progress and the worth of various items.
Usefull in the initial and recovery phases of some disasters/scenarios.

If its the Dying Time I wouldnt bother with gold. Food, guns and ammo please.
 

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I wouldn't accept a bitcoin for anything of value, unless I got it for 10 cents on the alleged dollar value, and I wouldn't hold it more than a day.

Even the fiat US currency has value, backed by the full faith and credit of the government and hundreds of years of use and acceptance literally in every corner of the world. It's recognized and taken everywhere. Maybe not forever. But at least for now and in the foreseeable future.

A collapse of the US dollar and US government is certainly possible, but pretty unlikely.

Bitcoin is nothing but an idea. Can you sue someone, force someone to honor it, hold someone accountable, demand payment? I don't even know how I would get one, or who would take one. Can I carry it in my pocket, use it anywhere locally at the store or elsewhere? What prevents manipulation and dumping of the price of it? Is it regulated?

It just has the look and feel and sense of a ponzi scheme and someone will be left holding the bag.

What prevents every person from creating some fiction "currency" and jacking up prices? Let's say I buy up all the known XYZ baseball cards for 1 penny each creating rarity and then I set the value of them at $10000 each. That doesn't make them valuable or accepted anywhere, it's just similar nonsense.

Stated otherwise, bitcoin value will drop out overnight one of these days far sooner than the US dollar, silver, gold, bullets, guns, etc.
Everything you say holds true of the current dollar as well. But thats also true for all currencies in circulation today.
 

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What my head can't wrap around is why isn't SILVER the same price. It has everything you meantioned PLUS industrial use.
The volume of bitcoins is fixed. There is much more silver than bitcoins.

They are the same price if you consider a 30 oz coin. The sizes are arbitrary. The question you are asking doesn't even really make sense

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