Survivalist Forum banner
  • Are you passionate about survivalism? Would you like to write about topics that interest you and get paid for it? Read all about it here!
3201 - 3220 of 3276 Posts

·
the "d" from ban[d]
Joined
·
15,778 Posts
Crypto is simply something I do not understand. It does not matter what it is, if I mess with something I don't understand I lose money. I am invested in MS and Goldman Sachs. I have tried PayPal and Square and made a little money but they are too volatile. Lost money on Coinbase.

Regardless you will see me investing in stocks the facilitate the use of Cryptos but not Cryptos because they are too volatile in general for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,395 Posts
I applauded you guys for your generous natures, but Palmetto Tree has been here since the $608 beginning …with condescending, dismissive rhetoric. He was a mere youngster way back then.

This last post he had to slip in the “too volatile” to be currency meme. If a person zooms out and looks at the ten year BTC price chart, the monthly volatility fades away and you see a black line the goes from the lower left to the upper right. That is the price action that every investor longs for.

There is a vast difference between the person watching, in unbelieving awe, as an airplane takes flight; and that person who throws rocks at the new technology.
 

·
the "d" from ban[d]
Joined
·
15,778 Posts
I applauded you guys for your generous natures, but Palmetto Tree has been here since the $608 beginning …with condescending, dismissive rhetoric. He was a mere youngster way back then.

This last post he had to slip in the “too volatile” to be currency meme. If a person zooms out and looks at the ten year BTC price chart, the monthly volatility fades away and you see a black line the goes from the lower left to the upper right. That is the price action that every investor longs for.

There is a vast difference between the person watching, in unbelieving awe, as an airplane takes flight; and that person who throws rocks at the new technology.
Bitcoin have varied 4.6% in the last 24 hours. That is too volatile for me. It has varied 538% in the last year. That is too volatile for me.

Cyber currencies may be the future and Bitcoin might be the Magellan of cryptos in history but it is too volatile for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,265 Posts
I applauded you guys for your generous natures, but Palmetto Tree has been here since the $608 beginning …with condescending, dismissive rhetoric. He was a mere youngster way back then.

This last post he had to slip in the “too volatile” to be currency meme. If a person zooms out and looks at the ten year BTC price chart, the monthly volatility fades away and you see a black line the goes from the lower left to the upper right. That is the price action that every investor longs for.

There is a vast difference between the person watching, in unbelieving awe, as an airplane takes flight; and that person who throws rocks at the new technology.
I agree. None of his posts appear to be questions or comments made in good faith. It's fine with me that someone doesn't want to get in to crypto, but at this point he's spent years in this thread doing nothing but trolling for responses. It's like if someone who doesn't like hunting, but continuously posts short sighted surface level critiques in hunting threads. I'd rather participate in crypto threads that discuss actual topics instead of trying to teach someone who doesn't want to learn over and over.
 

·
the "d" from ban[d]
Joined
·
15,778 Posts
I agree. None of his posts appear to be questions or comments made in good faith. It's fine with me that someone doesn't want to get in to crypto, but at this point he's spent years in this thread doing nothing but trolling for responses. It's like if someone who doesn't like hunting, but continuously posts short sighted surface level critiques in hunting threads. I'd rather participate in crypto threads that discuss actual topics instead of trying to teach someone who doesn't want to learn over and over.
I think you and LoveLife love Bitcoin. That is an emotional not logical attachment. Love is emotional.

My post are either questions or facts. You two are down to ad hominem post.
 

·
GrowingFromScratch.com
Joined
·
3,405 Posts
I applauded you guys for your generous natures, but Palmetto Tree has been here since the $608 beginning …with condescending, dismissive rhetoric.

There is a vast difference between the person watching, in unbelieving awe, as an airplane takes flight; and that person who throws rocks at the new technology.
That's my point. Yes, I would consider many of the posts over the years, as unconstructive, and poking the bear. But I think we should also acknowledge when viewpoints modify and the tone of posts change accordingly. Palmetto says direct crypto investing is not for him because he doesn't understand it. But I believe he now concedes it has a role and a value. I have no issue with that. That stance is a far cry from a continuation of throwing rocks at the technology in my opinion. I'm really not trying to carry water for Palmetto here. I just can appreciate and laud when anybody modifies their viewpoint after further review of the information. Stubborn fools only dig in their heels. There are many Proverbs in the Bible about being able to take instruction, rather than be set in your ways in certain matters. I commend that when I see it.
 

·
the "d" from ban[d]
Joined
·
15,778 Posts
That's my point. Yes, I would consider many of the posts over the years, as unconstructive, and poking the bear. But I think we should also acknowledge when viewpoints modify and the tone of posts change accordingly. Palmetto says direct crypto investing is not for him because he doesn't understand it. But I believe he now concedes it has a role and a value. I have no issue with that. That stance is a far cry from a continuation of throwing rocks at the technology in my opinion. I'm really not trying to carry water for Palmetto here. I just can appreciate and laud when anybody modifies their viewpoint after further review of the information. Stubborn fools only dig in their heels. There are many Proverbs in the Bible about being able to take instruction, rather than be set in your ways in certain matters. I commend that when I see it.
Thank you I hope I can live up to those kind words.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,395 Posts
Bitcoin have varied 4.6% in the last 24 hours. That is too volatile for me. It has varied 538% in the last year. That is too volatile for me.

Cyber currencies may be the future and Bitcoin might be the Magellan of cryptos in history but it is too volatile for me.

You are acting like a naive investor Mr. Palmetto. If I had all my assets in Sushiswap, I would agree that volatility would be an issue. But don't you believe in asset allocation? Are you not the master of your portfolio? Then how can 1% of your net worth in bitcoin be TOO f'ing volatile???

But I do agree crypto is a generational issue. Jamie Dimon, of JP Morgan fame, said any employee who invests in bitcoin would be fired. He later said anyone who bought bitcoin is "crazy". His daughter called him and said "Dad, I own 2 bitcoins". For a very long time Peter Schiff has disputed the idea that bitcoin is digital gold. He owns a gold warehouse and sells online gold. But poor Peter learned his adult son has gone "all in" on bitcoin. You can lead a child to the antiquated Kool-Aid, but you cannot make them drink!!

Palmetto Tree, I say again, lose the 8-track, buy MQA. Give away the Oldsmobile and order a Cybertruck. The future is going to be deflationary, so sell your TIPS and buy some Solana (SOL). You would be right now enjoying your family's generational wealth, if you had invested just a few % of your net worth in crypto, as many in this thread suggested oh so long ago (palm to forehead).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,359 Posts
Bitcoin have varied 4.6% in the last 24 hours. That is too volatile for me. It has varied 538% in the last year. That is too volatile for me.

Cyber currencies may be the future and Bitcoin might be the Magellan of cryptos in history but it is too volatile for me.
A traditional measure of risk is beta - volatility. I think that is BS. Volatility is not risk at all. Risk is probability of losing your investment. I still think crypto is gambling, but there is underlying intrinsic value for enabling certain types of transactions.

For example in a traditional stock trade it takes 2-3 days for the entire transaction to clear. It looks instant to you, but it isnt behind the scenes. Blockchain allows instantaneous decentralized clearing of the entire transaction. Crypto is focused on currency type transfers not stocks. You can have an instant, fully cleared international transaction, that cannot be repudiated. This is a breakthrough and has tremendous value.

Instead of a brokerage maintaining your stock position, your positions can be on a block chain, including dollar equivalent crypto. This means you can buy and sell stocks with others 24 hours/day with instant settling of the transaction. It might still go through a brokerage, but instead of using clearing houses, brokerages can use a blockchain.
 

·
the "d" from ban[d]
Joined
·
15,778 Posts
A traditional measure of risk is beta - volatility. I think that is BS. Volatility is not risk at all. Risk is probability of losing your investment. I still think crypto is gambling, but there is underlying intrinsic value for enabling certain types of transactions.

For example in a traditional stock trade it takes 2-3 days for the entire transaction to clear. It looks instant to you, but it isnt behind the scenes. Blockchain allows instantaneous decentralized clearing of the entire transaction. Crypto is focused on currency type transfers not stocks. You can have an instant, fully cleared international transaction, that cannot be repudiated. This is a breakthrough and has tremendous value.

Instead of a brokerage maintaining your stock position, your positions can be on a block chain, including dollar equivalent crypto. This means you can buy and sell stocks with others 24 hours/day with instant settling of the transaction. It might still go through a brokerage, but instead of using clearing houses, brokerages can use a blockchain.
You are right about stock clearing time. This is easy to measure. When I sell a stock that cash is immediately available for trading. It is not immediately available for withdrawal.

IMO the time it takes from sale to cash available for withdrawal is a pretty good measure of clearance time.

Crypto has a long way to go in terms of general confidence. It may very well be the future. I am an investor not a trader. That said there are many more traders than investors. That metric is in numbers of people not market capitalization of portfolios. (Best example the average account size of Robinhood is $250.)

IMO the first thing that will happen is the big boys will start using blockchain to speed up transactions for customers. Much later the customers will start using blockchain personally.

That is just my guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,359 Posts
You are right about stock clearing time. This is easy to measure. When I sell a stock that cash is immediately available for trading. It is not immediately available for withdrawal.

IMO the time it takes from sale to cash available for withdrawal is a pretty good measure of clearance time.

Crypto has a long way to go in terms of general confidence. It may very well be the future. I am an investor not a trader. That said there are many more traders than investors. That metric is in numbers of people not market capitalization of portfolios. (Best example the average account size of Robinhood is $250.)

IMO the first thing that will happen is the big boys will start using blockchain to speed up transactions for customers. Much later the customers will start using blockchain personally.

That is just my guess.
Warren buffett completely skipped tech because he didnt feel like he could predict the future with it. I dont think you should feel guilty about missing out on crypto because something doesnt feel right with it. Most tech companies from the dotcom boom are gone. Most crypto wont make it. At one point Yahoo was the leader in search just like btc is the leader in crypto.

Is eth google or askjeeves?

For me crypto is gambling. I have 54 eth and 2 btc. My eth was bought about $10, my btc was bought at around 10K. Last time I went to vegas I lost 3K.

Many people dont understand the fundamental problem that blockchain solves and that most applications dont really benefit.

The key benefit of blockchain is when you dont trust a central provider to maintain the system. The penalty is that the system cannot be data heavy (due to the replication of the chain) and has a huge redundant processing cost.

So we dont trust govt to control a central currency, hence crypto

We do trust the govt to record things like deeds of trust and real estate transfers so blockchain likely wont help

We trust our medical records with our doctors, or likely even with centralized medical records repositories.

Stock exchanges/money transfers etc front customers their money so even though clearing is slow, the exchanges make it appear to be instant. So blockchain might not have value.

I think with social media we have learned we cannot trust a centralized provider so I think social media can definitely go blockchain.

My friends had their entire retirement savings stolen but were able to recover it through their brokerages. Without a centralized system that kind of recovery becomes much harder. The banking/credit card system, provides this kind of repudiation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,395 Posts
Warren buffett completely skipped tech because he didnt feel like he could predict the future with it. I dont think you should feel guilty about missing out on crypto because something doesnt feel right with it. Most tech companies from the dotcom boom are gone. Most crypto wont make it. At one point Yahoo was the leader in search just like btc is the leader in crypto.

Is eth google or askjeeves?

For me crypto is gambling. I have 54 eth and 2 btc. My eth was bought about $10, my btc was bought at around 10K. Last time I went to vegas I lost 3K.

Many people dont understand the fundamental problem that blockchain solves and that most applications dont really benefit.

The key benefit of blockchain is when you dont trust a central provider to maintain the system. The penalty is that the system cannot be data heavy (due to the replication of the chain) and has a huge redundant processing cost.

So we dont trust govt to control a central currency, hence crypto

We do trust the govt to record things like deeds of trust and real estate transfers so blockchain likely wont help

We trust our medical records with our doctors, or likely even with centralized medical records repositories.

Stock exchanges/money transfers etc front customers their money so even though clearing is slow, the exchanges make it appear to be instant. So blockchain might not have value.

I think with social media we have learned we cannot trust a centralized provider so I think social media can definitely go blockchain.

My friends had their entire retirement savings stolen but were able to recover it through their brokerages. Without a centralized system that kind of recovery becomes much harder. The banking/credit card system, provides this kind of repudiation.
I see the future differently. There is no industry that won’t be transformed by blockchain. And crypto is the way blockchain gets monetized. The first benefit of blockchain is disintermediation. The elimination of middlemen and their cost structure. Think banking, real estate, insurance, brokerage, ad infinitum. Any industry that is not currently P2P is in blockchain’s crosshairs. Blockchain can take the place of any business that gets paid to provide trust.
Next is blockchain’s immutability. In this era of fake news, hacking of personal information, and rewriting history…the ability to immortalize your birth certificate, the title to your property, your annuity, etc is priceless. The individual will again own their own data.
You mentioned speed. Imagine a real estate closing where you don’t have to get your funds to the Title Company early. Or if you are the seller, were immediately after you sign, the funds are already in your account. If you are a merchant, you no longer worry that your customer will change his mind 3days later. Unlike credit cards, crypto cannot get clawed back.
Cost. You can move millions of dollars for pennies. No armored truck. No bank vault.
You can tokenize everything. Stocks. You will be able to buy 1/100th of a share of Tesla. Real estate. Maybe you want to make a $1,000 investment in the Empire State Building. Art. Gold. And crypto is traded 24/7. It will make traditional exchanges obsolete.
If you go way back in this $608 string, I wrote a diatribe about an autonomous EV and how it will be a self-contained business. Paying for its own recharge. And accepting crypto for ridesharing. That future is nearly here. And it will be built around crypto. You can watch it in real-time as PayPal, Visa, and Square are all rushing to acquire blockchain companies and integrate the technology. ICE vehicles, and cash dollars in a leather wallet, will be as rare as a horse-and-buggy in the not too distant future.
 

·
GrowingFromScratch.com
Joined
·
3,405 Posts
I spent a few minutes on a couple YouTube videos trying to figure out how to establish, use a smart contract. If I wanted to buy a car using blockchain and cut out the bank, how do you actually utilize this technology. It appears you have to have coding skills for the time being, which makes the utility practically useless for most folks. I assume eventually there will be some DIY websites that will simplify the process by having the user fill in some basic information and it will generate the code necessary so even my 90 year old parents could utilize a smart contract.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
I spent a few minutes on a couple YouTube videos trying to figure out how to establish, use a smart contract. If I wanted to buy a car using blockchain and cut out the bank, how do you actually utilize this technology. It appears you have to have coding skills for the time being, which makes the utility practically useless for most folks. I assume eventually there will be some DIY websites that will simply the process by having the user fill in some basic information and it will generate the code necessary so even my 90 year old parents could utilize a smart contract.
Eventually there will be a DAPP for everything and then IRL physical businesses and individuals will use those DAPPs. If you look at AAVE that's an example of a DAPP that individuals are using to lend and borrow. UNISWAP is another example of a DAPP that people are using to swap currency/coins/tokens. Yes, creating a smart contract is difficult, but using existing DAPPs that utilize smart contracts is pretty easy.
 

·
GrowingFromScratch.com
Joined
·
3,405 Posts
Yes, I need to get a better handle on AAVE too. Seems like you use some crypto as collateral to borrow cash, similar to using your house as collateral for a HELOC, but I'm sure my attempt to analogize it in traditional finance terms I understand is wildly inaccurate.
 

·
GrowingFromScratch.com
Joined
·
3,405 Posts
It's like all you're doing is trolling promoting your new crytojunk and not even listening. Again, is the Venezuelan government who is in full control of the food supply accepting bitcoins? If they are, I will gladly buy some of your meth currency.
“some of your meth currency”… I’ve long remembered this comment from the early days (page 10) of this long running thread. It was a clever pun, and the disdain made me laugh. Not trying to pick on Don’t Panic, just referencing the point where I began to sit up, take notice, and seriously consider getting into the crypto space. EvilWhitey had posted about ETH as an alternative to BTC, and it was around $12. Shortly thereafter it was in the $800 range if memory serves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
“some of your meth currency”… I’ve long remembered this comment from the early days (page 10) of this long running thread. It was a clever pun, and the disdain made me laugh. Not trying to pick on Don’t Panic, just referencing the point where I began to sit up, take notice, and seriously consider getting into the crypto space. EvilWhitey had posted about ETH as an alternative to BTC, and it was around $12. Shortly thereafter it was in the $800 range if memory serves.
Oh wow, reading back that was a blast from the past! I was off on some things, but overall my thesis is still going strong. Yeah, $6 was a great entry point, and looking back, yes ETH was about $12 when I started talking about it on here, I wish I had bought way more though! I consistently DCA'd from $6 all the way up to $2,400 and added more and more over time as finances permitted and I don't regret it for a moment.

I still firmly believe that if Ethereum delivers on it's promises for solving the blockchain trilemma, and is adopted as the global settlement layer, that it's market cap will rival gold's in time. Currently that would mean 92k ETH. Insanity? Absolutely, but I see a path to it in 10-15 years.
 

·
GrowingFromScratch.com
Joined
·
3,405 Posts
Reading those early posts, you have been advocating a pretty consistent message, no doubt about it. Buying in then would have felt way more like gambling to me than it does now, and that explains why buying even just a few hundred dollars worth at $12 was never going to happen. Sometimes I'm too damn conservative for my own good... LOL
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,282 Posts
Reading those early posts, you have been advocating a pretty consistent message, no doubt about it. Buying in then would have felt way more like gambling to me than it does now, and that explains why buying even just a few hundred dollars worth at $12 was never going to happen. Sometimes I'm too damn conservative for my own good... LOL
I have a vivid memory of listening to Clyde Lewis's Ground Zero podcast where he was all excited because someone gave him a bitcoin he had forgot about and now it was worth $600 and he could get some dental work. I remember thinking "well, I missed out. This is definitely the peak of that endeavor".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,395 Posts
Reading those early posts, you have been advocating a pretty consistent message, no doubt about it. Buying in then would have felt way more like gambling to me than it does now, and that explains why buying even just a few hundred dollars worth at $12 was never going to happen. Sometimes I'm too damn conservative for my own good... LOL

As I said to Palmetto…placing 1% of your liquid funds into crypto is extremely conservative. If it goes to zero, it doesn’t change your lifestyle. But if it continues to capture marketplace utility, the capital gains can be generational wealth.

I told Palmetto five days ago to sell some TIPS and buy some SOL. In those five days, SOL rose in price from $86 to $135. Before you buy a car you do research. Before you buy a home, you do research. If you study crypto, you can give yourself an excellent chance at choosing the correct coin. And if you can catch the crypto bull market which can float all boats..well…you get generational wealth via a small risk of capital.

A 56% return in five days is not sustainable, but these outsized returns are happening because blockchain/crypto is a paradigm shift. World finance is changing. ATMs and the corner bank are dinosaurs. The crypto market cap is just over $2 trillion and probably heading for $10 trillion in 2022.
 
3201 - 3220 of 3276 Posts
Top