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Hi,

I am a pre-medical student, it is difficult to talk to people today about why socialized medicine is bad. It is bad for economy, bad for individuals and bad for freedom.

Adults behave like children on this topic and refuse to understand the facts about socialized healthcare. It is a nice concept to have everyone get free medicine, but terrible in practice. Healthcare is a service like everything else and must be subject to free markets.

To say people have a "right" to healthcare is as absurd as saying people have a right to nice food, nice house, nice things because you are alive. False. You must earn them with your hard work and skill you create. If you cannot afford $1,000,000 procedure, tough, that is life. That is what private insurance, charities and individual goodwill is for. If you cannot afford expensive operation, you have two options: ask others for help. If people refuse to help you, your only remaining option is to rob them. It is not right to force others to pay for you. It is not right even if the government says it is, even if collective ignorance of 51% people say so.

Here is a video I hope many of you will value. As individuals we can do very little about socialism in the United States, except through informing and educating people of its dangers. Education is key.





A group of doctors pushing for free market medicine is AAPS, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. They have many physicians from around the world speak against socialized medicine, including doctors from Canada, Italy, UK. www.youtube.com/aapsonline


This is a speech by Yaron Brook (from the Ayn Rand Center) which discusses government medicine. youtube.com/watch?v=U55-W3nI96o

A great speech by Leonard Peikoff about medicine:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageSer...rd_peikoff_medicine_the_death_of_a_profession



The key to avoiding this system is stay healthy. Start today, eat well, exercise. Don't rely on the government for anything, especially your health!


My intent is not to pursuade everyone that reads this. Many choose to remain ignorant and believe in childish socialist utopia. Unforunately this idea has ravaged the minds of many Americans. This message will only ring true to those that understand what healthcare reform means to this country.

Share with others if you value what is said. Arm yourself with intellectual ammunition.

Anita Bath


"Poverty, ignorance, illness and other problems are part of nature and of existence. Man has to maintain his life by his own effort, the values he needs - such as wealth or knowledge - are not given to him automatically, as a gift of nature, but have to be discovered and achieved by his own thinking and work. One's sole obligation toward others, in this respect, is to maintain a social system that leaves men free to achieve, to gain and to keep their lives.

The moral purpose of a man's life is the achievement of his own happiness. This does not mean that he is indifferent to all men, that human life is of no value to him and that he has no reason to help others in an emergency. But it does mean that he does not subordinate his life to the welfare of others, that he does not sacrifice himself to their needs, that the relief of their suffering and any help he gives is an exception, not a rule, an act of generosity, not of moral duty."

-Ayn Rand
 

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So you think that me being able to go to any hospital at any time in any state and area I am in for any injury and get treatment is a bad thing ? Wow I would certainly hate to die just cause a hospital wanted more money then I could afford or some dumb political/ technicality reason. I'm not helded to ransom by an employer who might give me a **** wage like $12 an hour and some **** " medical " coverage. I have had to use a hospital on a few occasions for my sons and my wife giving birth and it's great not having to think about if I can afford to go or if its the right hospital or even if it's just to see a gp.

Health care should never be about profit ever ! And I am sorry i don't pretent to understand the American system and don't bash me over my opinions but the people who tell you that your system needs to stay only say that for one reason and that is to pull the wool over your eyes to hide the truth that is your system is about money and how much can be made from the people. Once you wake up and see health care should be about the benefit of the people and never about how much money can be made the better.

Do you really think that lets say a cure for cancer is found, now in America do you really think the people who make money out of your medical system are going to think how good this is cause it will save so many people's live or will they be crunching the numbers thinking how much they stand to lose or make out of it.

And before you say how a system we are on just doesn't work let me tell you it does we all pay a small amount out of our wages and people who earn over a certain amount of money pay a little more. Now it is obvious that it's more complicated them that and in depth but it works as everyone should have the right to get medical treatment in a western world that has the means to.
 

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Conservative in LiberalNY
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Free markets built the drugs, and medical technology which America and Europe pioneered in the 1950-2000 period.

This is why people still travel from around the world to have medical procedures conducted here.

Also no one is refused medical care in the USA, although I agree that being rich will get you better care.

Once we completely bankrupt the country, with deficit spending, medical care will finally be totally fair, NO ONE will get modern medical care, it will not matter how rich or poor you are... WE WILL HAVE THE SOCIALIST UTOPIA!!!

And liberals suggest that this is less cruel than free markets?
 

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So you think that me being able to go to any hospital at any time in any state and area I am in for any injury and get treatment is a bad thing ? Wow I would certainly hate to die just cause a hospital wanted more money then I could afford or some dumb political/ technicality reason....................QUOTE]

Doesn't work that way. It is against the law in America for a hospital to turn away someone that requires emergency care. If you show up at the emergency room you will get treated. In fact, you will be given the very best treatment in the world if that is what is required to save your life.
 

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People don't just travel to the USA to get medical care but I do agree that a system that sees billions in profit will have the means to offer newer tech first even if it's only to make more money. And maybe would be good to see and hear stories from people from these " free clinics" you have in America. Can some Americans please inform me about how much you guys pay for police to come when you call 911 and have the police solve crimes for you when it happens and how much the fire departments charge you to put fires out at your house when they happen or to try save your house from a bush fire that might come close to your house. It will be interesting to see how it compares
 

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And I am not hear to make a fight or trash on America at all I just want to understand how things work there as as far as I am concerned you guys have the same values as us Australians a free society and and a democratic one at that.
 

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People don't just travel to the USA to get medical care ..........
Well, in fact, they do. Off the top of my head I can tell you that the former Shaw of Iran did. Other world leaders have. My best friend had a father in law from Canada come to the U.S. for the sole purpose of treating his Multiple Sclerosis. A former boss of mine who was or UK/Iraqi citizenship routinely traveled to the states for cancer treatment. I am sure there are other examples.
 

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to the op, you are lucky. by the time you get out of med school and are practicing, you won't have to experience patients crying in the exam room because they cannot afford the medicines to cure their cancer. worse yet is when it is the parents of a young child that is diagnosed. you won't have to wonder or worry about any particular patient because you knew the meds you prescribed for them they could not afford. you won't have to hear the despair of so many because their insurance was cancelled and no other company will insure them because of pre-existing conditions.
this is due in no small part to the new health care laws going into effect.

and if you are so cold that you cannot empathize or sympathize with the patients you'll be treating, then you will be best served by confining your "practice" to a lab.

just retired after a 30+ year medical career and, yes, i've seen it all. fortunately, not too many like you.
 

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Ther does need to be reforms in the health care industy but socialization is not good.

Of course you will never be able to change the minds of the perpetual "victim" and "gimme" people who think they should get what they "need" from government at the cost of others.
Please tell me what happens to the money you pay in a year for health cover and say you never use it ? Does it role over or something like that money just doesn't vanish does it what happens to it.
 

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Shade Tree Gynecologist
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People don't just travel to the USA to get medical care but I do agree that a system that sees billions in profit will have the means to offer newer tech first even if it's only to make more money. And maybe would be good to see and hear stories from people from these " free clinics" you have in America. Can some Americans please inform me about how much you guys pay for police to come when you call 911 and have the police solve crimes for you when it happens and how much the fire departments charge you to put fires out at your house when they happen or to try save your house from a bush fire that might come close to your house. It will be interesting to see how it compares
There are a couple of "free" clinics in my town of about 35-40k. Not totally free but not bad. They even have a pharmacy. Sure you have to pay a little bit but they don't require insurance.
 

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Well, in fact, they do. Off the top of my head I can tell you that the former Shaw of Iran did. Other world leaders have. My best friend had a father in law from Canada come to the U.S. for the sole purpose of treating his Multiple Sclerosis. A former boss of mine who was or UK/Iraqi citizenship routinely traveled to the states for cancer treatment. I am sure there are other examples.
Look I understand people do travel to the USA but not only the USA is the point I am trying to make.
 

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Survivus most anythingus
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Today is December 1, 2012 and this person joined this forum today and this is the first dip in the water...and this person is new here? Yeah, right. Hahahaha! Another bongo drum beater for "the rich deserve everything" and everyone else deserves nothing. How many user names does this person have? :rolleyes:
 

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...........................

Health care should never be about profit ever ! And I am sorry i don't pretent to understand the American system and don't bash me over my opinions but the people who tell you that your system needs to stay only say that for one reason and that is to pull the wool over your eyes to hide the truth that is your system is about money and how much can be made from the people. ...............................
You are absolutely correct Sir. It is all about money. What you seem to be advocating is equivalent to walking into a store and demanding that they sell you cereal for what you want to pay not what they want to charge for it. While you are at it you demand the same for the milk. After all one can't have cereal without milk. Then perhaps you need something to carry it all home in so you purchase a sack but hold on a min. You don't feel you should pay what is on the price tag for that sack. You demand that he accept a lower price to suit you. All the while you have neglected to take into account what it cost to produce that cereal, that milk, that sack. Now the store is left with less profit. Never mind that there may still be SOME profit left if he is lucky. Maybe there is not enough for the store so they decide to close up shop and move to a more business friendly location.

Now you are left with no store to buy food. See how that works?

Hope I did not come off too confrontational but I am tired of hearing how people want to set prices for others product and labors.
 

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Shade Tree Gynecologist
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Please tell me what happens to the money you pay in a year for health cover and say you never use it ? Does it role over or something like that money just doesn't vanish does it what happens to it.
Were you attempting to compare the police and fire dpartments to healthcare?
 

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Survivus most anythingus
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this is due in no small part to the new health care laws going into effect.
The main thing the new health care "reform" law is going to do is penalize people for not purchasing health insurance and the health insurance companies helped write the law along with Romney's wrecking crew from his days as Governor of Taxachussetts.

...and if you are so cold that you cannot empathize or sympathize with the patients you'll be treating, then you will be best served by confining your "practice" to a lab.

just retired after a 30+ year medical career and, yes, i've seen it all. fortunately, not too many like you.
I seriously doubt this person is involved in medicine at all. It has every appearance of being one of the virulent strain that infests political/financial forums here under another name...or perhaps just another clone of same. Doesn't matter much, does it? :D:

If they are in medicine, they do openly exhibit the bedside manner of the proctologist, don't they? ;)
 

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Look I understand people do travel to the USA but not only the USA is the point I am trying to make.
You are correct, and I understand what you mean. Keep in mind that we don't have the waiting lists that the UK and Canada have though. It is much closer to a free market here with med. care.

You do not have a RIGHT to the labors of another (Dr.). You have to pay for those services. To force one to provide his services at a rate other than what he wishes is criminal and the antithesis of freedom.
 
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