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Discussion Starter #1
I read that ALICE pack frames break often and I noticed that the frames are partially riveted together.

So I was wondering why use rivets at all if the frame can be welded?

It seems like a simple solution to make the ALICE pack frame tougher, after all bike frames are welded and do not use rivets so why are ALICE pack frames riveted?
 

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Maximus
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I read that ALICE pack frames break often and I noticed that the frames are partially riveted together.

So I was wondering why use rivets at all if the frame can be welded?

It seems like a simple solution to make the ALICE pack frame tougher, after all bike frames are welded and do not use rivets so why are ALICE pack frames riveted?
Hey welcome back! Been a while.

My guess is because of costs. Also welds can not be repaired unless you had a welder. Another thing is that ALICE frames are aluminum right? Aren't bike frames steel? I don't know if it is harder to weld aluminum than steel or anything.

Hey I have been waiting for you to jump back on this thread:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=2880287&postcount=86
About the Hybrid pack designs... check out the new arguments!
 

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Deus exsisto laus
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I would think it was a cost cutting measure. Remember, the contract goes to the lowest bidder. I still have the ALICE and frame I brought home from the Army in 1985. The frame has never broken on mine. TP
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Vicdotcom sorry for not replying sooner..The NICE frame looks interesting and you are right it can be considered a hybrid, however I'm still not sure about it..

1. I wonder how this set up brings the pack closer to your body than an external aluminum frame.
2. I wonder how durable the synthetic fabric and stitching is.

My concern is that it can see heavy use for a few years before the textile frame will start to come apart..Unfortunately most people will be OK with this because they expect to buy a new pack every few years. From my perspective we should be buying solid product that either won't breakdown, or can be easily repaired like a good truck.

The ALICE frame seems antiquated, but is solid (if it weren't for the rivets). I guess I would rather product with some extra durability over ease of use.
 

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I have had mine since 76. It has had only (1) rivet replaced. I have noticed that I might need to replace another soon. This is my Go to BOB. I have several others like the molle II. Now those break. My nieces husband thats a Marine has the newest ILBE issued to him but his BOB is an Alice. Not because its price on the market but because he's seen and heard that they last. Guess its what ya like.
 

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I'll never give up my alice pack what other frame gives you the option of using the medium or large pack depending on your needs? I have the tray and with my para cord I can attach water/gas can and pack it a lot father I could carry it! It's not the most comfortable but it is the most flexible.
just remember the frame is designed to keep the gear off the back, most time I have seen busted rivets is when the pack is over stuffed and about to burst at the seem and then cinched as tight as one can get it that puts a lot of stress on the cross members of the frame. if you are using the medium pack try the large pack.
 

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The frame would pop after a jump, or be weakened by numerous ones, or just all around rough handling. For those who were never in the mil, after going 10-20-"just kept walking" kilometers, while taking a break no one is really setting it down like baby Moses in the Nile. That bag is going to just fall off your back, especially if you're carrying something stupid heavy like a base plate, or you ended up being the battery and ammo guy. That frame which may not have broken (yet, but is weakened), gets sent to DRMO, and then sold to GI Joe's surplus, and then to the general public.

If you bought one that is new: Unless you are dropping your ruck or throwing it in the back of a vehicle like Soldiers do, after carrying a load that weighs like a Soldiers does, and walk the same distance and pace, you should be a-ok. Keep in mind, sometimes they're just made truly horrible and somehow get through QC. You don't have CIF or a supply SGT to get you a new one for free-ninety-nine. Check them out in person. I'd never buy a well used one.

Quick 30 min fix:

I've fixed my frame by drilling out the old rivet it comes with, installing a bolt/washer/nut combo that cost about a buck at Home Depot, and then covering it with some plumbing steel putty weld. If it breaks from a fall, that means my back or limbs are broken too and I'll need help ASAP.:)
 

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Realist
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13+years in Infantry, Airborne, and Ranger units, literally thousands of miles humped under an Alice pack and over a hundred tactical jumps (parachute drops). Never broke a frame. I have seen broken frames, but that was usually from something rediculous like some FNG throwing his 150 lb ruck with a base plate off of the side of a 5 ton, and even then it had to land wrong.
 

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13+years in Infantry, Airborne, and Ranger units, literally thousands of miles humped under an Alice pack and over a hundred tactical jumps (parachute drops). Never broke a frame. I have seen broken frames, but that was usually from something rediculous like some FNG throwing his 150 lb ruck with a base plate off of the side of a 5 ton, and even then it had to land wrong.
YMMV I suppose. They can and DO happen. Any civilian who buys them WILL be "FNG" level. Many frames are also broken through general use and wear and tear. A frame from the 80's that has weathered a journey of a PVT, Airborne, RIP, Ranger, SFAS, SFQC, etc. will not be around anymore. It may not be around past the first 3. I've popped only one, but it never broke again since the repair and retrofit. I had a guy pop the lower one holding his radio, an older sincgars radio, no fault of his own, I turned around just in time to watch him fall on his butt with his now totally useless frame flapping around.

My advice for a broken frame and their potential repairs, would be to Google "broken ruck frame" and read on all 5 of the first major links to other forum sites that should be military oriented. Strengthen all the weak points. Sure a Mystery Rahch frame is sweet, but if you're working on a limited budget there's only so much you can do to cobble up a fix.
 

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Realist
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YMMV I suppose. They can and DO happen. Any civilian who buys them WILL be "FNG" level. Many frames are also broken through general use and wear and tear. A frame from the 80's that has weathered a journey of a PVT, Airborne, RIP, Ranger, SFAS, SFQC, etc. will not be around anymore. It may not be around past the first 3. I've popped only one, but it never broke again since the repair and retrofit. I had a guy pop the lower one holding his radio, an older sincgars radio, no fault of his own, I turned around just in time to watch him fall on his butt with his now totally useless frame flapping around.

My advice for a broken frame and their potential repairs, would be to Google "broken ruck frame" and read on all 5 of the first major links to other forum sites that should be military oriented. Strengthen all the weak points. Sure a Mystery Rahch frame is sweet, but if you're working on a limited budget there's only so much you can do to cobble up a fix.
Point taken, they will be considerably weaker by the time they make it to the civillian market. I personnally like the frame, of course I always add a bit of padding in the places where it would dig or rub the wrong way. I feel that were the one I have now to pop a rivet, I would follow your lead and repair/upgrade it rather than going for an untested/unknown system.
 

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No worries, I personally like the big green tick. I have favored it over the half finished ********s that pose as the "new and improved" issue. Even though I'm now out, I still favor it as my pack. I remember cutting a few pieces of the puss pad to cushion the frame in areas that rub. It might look like crap but felt like the world was right again if you've been rubbed bloody by it.

Claymore pouch on top, snaps replaced with fastex, 5 large bottom pockets total....it's probably only because I spent too much time and money on the thing rather than it's real comfort...but if you've got a load to carry a "comfortable" 120+ lbs of "lightweight gear" is never going to be comfortable or light weight. Just grit teeth and put one foot in front of the other.:D:
 

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I'll have to watch my rivets, I have been using mine five years heavily and most recently for search and rescue. So far it has never given me any grief. (touch wood)
 

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Renaissance Man
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I hiked the AT with mine back in '78. I had a rivet pop after several hundred miles, and I just sidled into a small town hardware store and picked up a half dozen beefy sheet metal screws. I replaced the broken rivet with one, and another that looked iffy. I just keep the screws in my repair kit in case any more break. Takes 2 minutes to fix.

Az
 

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Bushwacker
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Aluminium is so last century. This is the backpack frame for today.
Bought a top of the line Icon Motorcycle helmet, and it fell apart after sitting one day in my hot car. If you pay that much money for a piece of equipment and it melts on the seams like butter. This does look durable, but the old Aluminium frame has been tried and true to me.

I think the OP has an aftermarket frame.
 

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Keeper of Tomes
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*Yawn* Go to tactical tailor and get a good frame with an excellent warranty and wonderful customer service.
 

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I have had thousands of alice frames go through my hands. The most common problem I have seen is the top rivet popping out. But not that often. And its a easy fix. The fix has been already addressed in earlier threads.

Couple facts about the alice frame. Its been in use by the U.S. Military since the late 1960s up until a few years back. The desing hasnt changed much. You know why? It worked.

Millions issued. Field tested in all kinds of condtions. And I still have active duty members contact me for this item. Lg Alice Packs can still be purchased through som PXs on base. Ft Leonardwood.

I have seen many plastic Molle frames cracked from user stress that the Alice Frame would cruise through.

With that said. Tons of options available. My choice is something that has years of battlefield testing. Throw a battle load pack off a 100 ft cliff a few times. Then see if it functions. If it does you are spot on.

Here is some info on the Alice Pack and Frame

http://youtu.be/4KcgWELyB1c
 
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