[rambone]

2 people are having an argument
one believes in america first,god and country,love it or leave it.
the other believes that patriots are like obedient nazis and are just brainwashed sheep.
would seem the first guy would be more patriotic but is that a good thing or bad thing?

 

[test]

2 people are having an argument
one believes in america first,god and country,love it or leave it.
the other believes that patriots are like obedient nazis and are just brainwashed sheep.
would seem the first guy would be more patriotic but is that a good thing or bad thing?

I think this thread has the potential for epic fail.

 

[Sprig]

...would seem the first guy would be more patriotic but is that a good thing or bad thing?

It is a good thing.

At the moment, as far as I know, there aren't millions of innnocent Americans locked up in train cattle cars scheduled for incineration.

With the current bail out in place, it seems Americans are going to get the opportuinity to bail out international corporations (that may be near bankrupcty due to bad forgien investments). Does this mean American workforce will be bailing out bad overseas debt?

Even now, America is the greastest place on the planet. Hope the people on this forum will work to keep it that way for a long long time.

 

[rambone]

is my ' country right or wrong ' an extreme form of patriotism?

the patriot movement identified by timothy mcveigh and the michigan militia was considered a far right wing anti-government movement,and though neo-nazis and skinheads were the core,it's was anti-government which would make them non-patriots.

the patriot act is a replica of the nazi enabing act.

Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin patria < Greek patris, πατρίς) by individuals and groups.

so can a patriot be patriotic to their country or people but against the government?

 

[kajunman1]

1st - God
2nd - Family
3rd - Country

With out God and knowledge of his word all else fails. One cannot love their family correctly with out it. A country not based on Christian values would not be just and fail.

I contend, with out the US, with a strong Christian foundation, the other countries of the world would become unstable. All other countries and forms of government succeed because of the existence of the US.

 

[LaRue]

so can a patriot be patriotic to their country or people but against the government?

I believe that is what it means to be an "American patriot". As an American you have the responsibility to stand up and fight for your country and the duty to question the judgement and decisions of the people leading the government. So in short, yes. You can be patriotic and question the government at the same time.

 

[rambone]

I believe that is what it means to be an "American patriot". As an American you have the responsibility to stand up and fight for your country and the duty to question the judgement and decisions of the people leading the government. So in short, yes. You can be patriotic and question the government at the same time.

so were the vietnam war draft dodgers patriotic because they didnt believe it was just and the government was wrong even though it was their country at war?
what was oskar schindler who saved the jews compared to the nazi camp guards in regards as to who was the real patriot?

 

[rambone]

1st - God
2nd - Family
3rd - Country

With out God and knowledge of his word all else fails. One cannot love their family correctly with out it. A country not based on Christian values would not be just and fail.

I contend, with out the US, with a strong Christian foundation, the other countries of the world would become unstable. All other countries and forms of government succeed because of the existence of the US.

would think ones family would be first but if one were catholic and the vatican said to go to rome and we will fight america ,what would a catholic american do?it would seem to be a battle between the devotion to ones religon versus patriotism to ones country.

 

[kajunman1]

would think ones family would be first but if one were catholic and the vatican said to go to rome and we will fight america ,what would a catholic american do?it would seem to be a battle between the devotion to ones religon versus patriotism to ones country.

That will not happen, but ignorance of the word, will cause unwise decisions, and as a raised Catholic, many are ignorant. I was.:thumb:

 

[thx1138]

2 people are having an argument
one believes in america first,god and country,love it or leave it.
the other believes that patriots are like obedient nazis and are just brainwashed sheep.
would seem the first guy would be more patriotic but is that a good thing or bad thing?

The two examples are too narrowly defined and are stereotypical as well.

 

[rambone]

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."
-Mark Twain

he was a wise man.
thanks for aiding my confusion about what is patriotism and whether it is good or bad.

 

[hilly7]

As for my duty, it is to God, Family, and Country. Having said thatI believe in seperation of church and state. I fight for no religion, but I will fight for God, two different things. As my great grandmother use to say, "Religion will get you to Hell".


Here is a few quotes from pretty smart people.

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence. I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men and become the instruments of their own undoing." Daniel Webster

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped
in the flag and carrying the cross"
-- Sinclair Lewis

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
-- H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

"When tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be
in the guise of fighting a foreign foe."
-- James Madison

"When even one American -- who has done
nothing wrong -- is forced by fear to shut his mind and
close his mouth, then all Americans are in peril."
-- Harry S. Truman

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-- Howard Zinn

 

[Maverick88]

2 people are having an argument
one believes in america first,god and country,love it or leave it.
the other believes that patriots are like obedient nazis and are just brainwashed sheep.
would seem the first guy would be more patriotic but is that a good thing or bad thing?

I think they are both pretty ignorant IMHO. God and country is a conditional argument, if the country goes against God then it stops being God and country any more. Maybe it's more that they are both wrong..... or maybe they are both right. If you take either side of thiese extremes you would have to be lacking in "normal" inteligence to some degree.

IMHO of course

 

[Brother Buck]

It is extremely patriotic to question government....it is your duty even when you voted for the regime in power.
Especially then.

 

[Smudge]

so were the vietnam war draft dodgers patriotic because they didnt believe it was just and the government was wrong even though it was their country at war?

America wasnt under threat so, I dont really think it would be fair to say America was at war. I know that makes no difference to the guys in the field getting shot at.

End of the day they can argue all day long and it wont make a spot of difference, the Patriot is the one thats stands up to be counted when the time comes not the one who can win an argument.

 

[jeffreyamanning]

I am.

Love the country or leave it. You don't have to love everyone in the country and everything that the country does....just love the country. Like I love country. I mean...the country.

 

[KaBar67]

I am not taking the bait. Move along.

 

[hilly7]

Love the country, yes. The country is based upon The Constitution and Bill Of Rights which have been ripped apart. Perhaps someone in another country that was much similar to ours said it best:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)



Original and then Translation


Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[TacomaJPP]

Let's not confuse patriotism with an allegiance to a government over a steadfastness to liberty and all that goes with it.

 

[Humungus]

Patriotism is awesome, and it is a great thing to do what is best for your country. The only thing is, you have to decide what the definition of the country is. Is it the land? The people? The government? I can envision many scenarios where the best interests of the country would be above all three of the categories i mentioned. This leads me to believe that the country is, to me, the ideals and the way of life, and most importantly,the freedom. I am unbending in my support and defense of these things.