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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Apparently God has more than one son... so who were they?


1. Yes, based on John 3:16 most folks would probably think Jesus was his only son, but that's not true, he was his only "begotten", meaning naturally produced with a mother.

2. Job 1:6 - "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."... so does this mean Satan is a son of God?

3. Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

4. Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

5. John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"... meaning that normal Christian people are the sons of God.




Soooo..... there's Jesus, Adam, possibly Satan... but who were the others in Job and Genesis? Are all angels "sons of God"? Weren't angels supposed to be neuter, without sex? That wouldn't make sense with the Genesis account. Who were the sons that impregnated the human girls if it wasn't Jesus, Adam, or sexless angels? If all angels are male... well I just don't know what to think about that.
 

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I see how these verses can cause curiosity, but all fellow believers and who do god's work are his sons. I JUST read this verse days ago and I know its in either matthew or mark. I will look for it tonight and get back to you. But basically jesus said "all believers and those who carry out my father's wishes are my brothers and sisters". Making me and hopefully you a son of god. How cool is that!

Reading the bible has caused soo much confusion for me from time to time. Take it slow and re read and it might just click for you. When it doesn't for me, Im good friends with a pastor who is my favorite of all time and me and him have sitdowns in his office and go over verses I dont understand. I also talk with friends about what a verse means to us personally, as a verse can mean the world to someone and just another verse to someone else.

Maybe someone else can help in the angel front, as I dont know much about angels.
 

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In the OT, the phrase 'Sons of God' usually meant angels of some sort.

In the NT, Christians are called: "Sons of God".

Great care is put to distinguish one son above the others, as being the only 'begotten' son of God. Though he is still our brother. :)
 

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Two of the questions contemporary New Testament scholars ask are, "Who did Jesus claim to be and who did he think he was?" These are profound questions. Jesus said, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." What are we to believe about Him? This is no small matter. Jesus is the central figure of the New Testament. So it may very well be that if you have missed the boat on who Jesus is, you may very well have missed the boat altogether.

Some state that when Jesus claimed to be the "Son of God," He did not mean it in a divine sense as Christians believe. They continue, "The term "son of God" was used to designate kings and angels. It is even used of the nation of Israel. Emperors, pharaohs, great philosophers, and religious figures were sometimes called "sons of God." So Jesus did not originally mean it in the sense that Christians today have come to believe, that Jesus is the direct offspring of God and, therefore, divine.

What did Jesus mean when He referred to Himself as the Son of God? Look at two verses.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)

Even many skeptical scholars consider this to be an authentic saying of Jesus, because of the principle of embarrassment. Jesus admits that He is unaware of the time of His Second Coming. This is not a saying you would fabricate about a man to whom you are ascribing divinity or deity, in order to convince your audience to worship Him. The fact that it was preserved strongly suggests that it is an authentic saying of Jesus.

When one looks at this verse in the original Greek, there appears to be a figure of speech employed called anabasis. This is when a passage has a step by step ascension increasing in stress. Notice what Jesus says: "No one knows about that day or hour (referring to humans), not even the angels in heaven (who are higher than humans), nor the Son [who is higher still], but only the Father." This places Jesus as "Son of God" above humans and angels. He is claiming to be the Son of God in a uniquely divine sense, above what the skeptics claim.

The second verse is in the Gospel of Mark (12:1-12). In this text, Jesus tells the parable of the owner of a vineyard who prepared and rented it to some vinegrowers. At harvest time, he sent a slave to receive some of the produce. But they refused to listen to the slave, beat him, and sent him away. One by one as the owner sent additional slaves, they refused to listen and either beat or killed them. He had one left to send, a son. But the tenants killed him too and threw him out of the vineyard. In this parable, the vineyard owner is God, the vineyard is Israel, the slaves are the prophets who brought the word of God to Israel and were mistreated and killed as a result, and the son is Jesus. What is of interest to us at the moment is that the son is here revered above the prophets (vss. 6-7). If prophets were sometimes referred to as sons of God, Jesus is son in a higher sense.

In conclusion, our view of Jesus is important if He was who He claimed to be. Who did He think He was? The Son of God. When He used this designation of Himself, He used it in a divine sense. As Son of God, Jesus is above all men, prophets, and divine angels. He is more than the prophets who spoke the truth. He is more than kings who uphold the truth. Jesus Himself is the truth. Prophets and kings asked others to believe them. Jesus asked others to believe in Him. Jesus claimed that as a result of God’s intense love for the world, He gave His "only begotten Son. "Only" sets Jesus above and apart from others of whom sonship is claimed. "Begotten" is not here used in the sense of a birth or beginning, but as "unique."He follows this by claiming that anyone who puts their faith in Him will be granted eternal life, something neither priests, prophets, nor kings could deliver on. He stands alone.
 

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God created everything and everybody. In that sense all people are "childrren of God". So ar the angels.

God had only 1 son in the "conventional" sense which is Christ (who is God as well as the Holy Spirit). It is rather simple really but I think you already understand the concept of the holy trinity having been raised a Baptist and all....... So why the Question?
 

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Arnt we all his sons and daughters?
We are all Sons and daughters of God.
Optimistic notion, but incorrect.

John 8:42-47;

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
 

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Discussion Starter #11
God created everything and everybody. In that sense all people are "childrren of God". So ar the angels.

God had only 1 son in the "conventional" sense which is Christ (who is God as well as the Holy Spirit). It is rather simple really but I think you already understand the concept of the holy trinity having been raised a Baptist and all....... So why the Question?
This has nothing to do with the trinity, and its impossible to be about humans. :rolleyes: I simply want to know who assembled themselves before God in Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and who impregnated the human ladies in Genesis 6:2-4 which created giants.
 

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Book of Enoch (excluded from the "approved Bible" by the Roman Catholic Church)-

[Chapter 6]

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.
 

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Book of Enoch-


[Chapter 7]

And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.


[Chapter 8]

And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .



[Chapter 9]

And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. And they said one to another: 'The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven. And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High."' And they said to the Lord of the ages: 'Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, and God of the ages, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: And Semjaza, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.'



[Chapter 10]

Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may, not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the mamzers (mongrels) and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.
 

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Compared to the Book of Enoch, the historical account given in Genesis is child's play, it is almost a joke. Without Enoch, it is probably never going to be possible to form a proper understanding on scripture or obtain a correct perspective through which to view scripture. That's why those who infiltrated the early church did everything they could to suppress Enoch and destroy every copy/manuscript of Enoch that they could get their hands on.
 

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Optimistic notion, but incorrect.

John 8:42-47;

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
Incorrect? What would make you so arrogant to profess them incorrect and then quote this....what does this prove?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
How do you know it wasn't written by a madman or a fiction writer?
:rolleyes: The only thing you've got that makes you believe that other books WEREN'T written by a madman or fiction writer is whether or not they actually made it into the canon... which was decided on by men... who voted some in even if they had no clue as to who wrote it.
 

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Really? where did this come from? How do you know it wasn't written by a madman or a fiction writer? BTw, could the 'giants' be dinosaurs? We found proof of that.


If you want to discredit the book with accusations it is incumbent upon you to show the book to be false. If you have proof that Enoch was a madman then feel free, indeed encouraged, to present it.

Everything in Enoch meshes with what we know from Genesis, it simply expands, clarifies, and improves (greatly) upon what Genesis teaches. If you throw out Enoch you need to throw out Genesis. Enoch also meshes with what the law teaches in Deuteronomy, specifically why a flood would impact the then known-world (the region from about the Sinai over to the Tigris river and up to the shores of the Black Sea in modern Turkey).
 

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i dont think ive ever read a book of enoch before it doesnt seem to be in my bible.

i think in job they mentioned pre flood history about the animals and all that too.

Hmm i see 2 things that make me not sure about the authenticity of enoch.

one the part about the giants that teach astrology and clouds. From what i have read the sun moon stars and everything beyond the upper atmosphere was shrouded in a canopy of moisture and it blocked out space.

after the flood all the sun and moon etc religions just popped up out of nowhere.
and astrology and astronomy too.

All of those things were post flood. ( i have read about people finding giants in armor copper and other metals all over the world) and it seems any type of fantastic creature in legends and fables might have been before the flood. and then killed off.

including dinos and other extinct REAL animals.

Thanks for making this corndoggy. this is my favorite thing to talk about in the bible.
 
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