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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some clairification please.

I already live where you intend to bug out too. That was a choice/sacrifice I made long ago. Making less money for the peace and quiet I wanted outside the urban sector.

There is no valid reason for anyone to be in my area unless I know them. You do not pass through here on the way to anywhere.

Things are bad and you have headed somewhere, God only knows where, and you enter my land. Without asking permission and using your wirecutters you distroy my fence, kill a couple of my animals for food and cut across my back forty exercising you "God given rights" to survive.

My security system has informed me of your presence. I slip to the top of the ridge and see a single intruder or a group of intruders, all armed, trespassing on my property, camping on the creekbank eating one of my cattle/or not, perhaps you are just there. The system is broken and I expect no help from LE. I am not about to walk down there and see what is going on and try to run you off.

The question is, how do I tell you from any other scumbag looter threatening my security.

Is there a special hat?
Will you be wearing a patch?

Perhaps you should paint something on your forehead so I can see it when the crosshairs settle.
 

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Proverbs 26:4
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I'll shout out to you; Hey dcliffhanger, it's me, diddy. :)

That is a real good question. One I'm sure most bugouts have not considered.
I plan on staying put and taking my lumps as they come on my own property. I don't have the land (yet) that you described you have but it is a valid question to all that are bugging in and out.
I honestly don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I'm not going to start sniping people and watching them could get tiresome and dangerous.
 

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Really?
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Well, hopefully at that moment your gut will tell you.........most folks know better than to be sneaking around openly armed........if you see a group of full BDU, painted faced, heavily armed folks, chances are they're up to no good.......if you see a family, with children, in plain clothes with a bewildered look on their face, they're lost.........either way, you have to decide whether to engage or not. Both have their own set of problems.
 

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I see a bad moon arising
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The question is, how do I tell you from any other scumbag looter threatening my security.
Person or Persons on public road = presumed harmless until proven otherwise.

Person or Persons cutting your fence, on your property, stealing your cattle
= scumbag looter threatening your security. Open and shut in my book.

Maybe one shot as a warning. If necessary, second shot through the
shoulder-blades as a warning to the next guy, and sleep well with no regrets.

Even pre-SHTF, armed intruders on your private property constitute a
credible threat that may not allow time for LE intervention. Legal
repercussions will depend on the "Castle" laws and "Stand your Ground"
laws in your particular state.
 

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excellent thread. I think bugging out is extremely dangerous unless it is a situation where you are FORCED out. If a bug out location is in your plan, you should be there and have established your defense and alert system well before it becomes a neccessity.

To me the risk of travel, coupled with the risk of finding your intended bug out location occupied with hostile squatters or property owners is more dangerous more often then staying put with the resources you have and holding your ground.

You abandon your fort, then you bug out and find your retreat already claimed, now what?
 

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If they've cut my fence and entered my property after seeing the "trespassers will be shot on sight" signs, then I make good on that promise, then go repair the fence, cursing them the entire time for making me do the extra work.

As for ID, how do you know the scumbag isn't using the same ID? In fact, we have plenty of scumbags in our midst even here. ID is pretty worthless. It doesn't tell you a thing about the person carrying it.
 

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Survivus most anythingus
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I need some clairification please.

I already live where you intend to bug out too. That was a choice/sacrifice I made long ago. Making less money for the peace and quiet I wanted outside the urban sector.

There is no valid reason for anyone to be in my area unless I know them. You do not pass through here on the way to anywhere.
You have your area as "north KY. the center of the universe."

How far are you from The Pound? :)
 

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Thats why you must scout out an area before running in a setting up house, there's always some A**hole wanting to shoot someone. Post whatever it's everyone for themselves, you, me and your cows are open season and you may or may not get the drop on someone, despite the bluster and tough talk. Survival is about surviving, starting gun battles isn't a smart way to do that. Maybe keep your cattle out of sight??? And cutting your fence? Give me a break...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thats why you must scout out an area before running in a setting up house, there's always some A**hole wanting to shoot someone. Post whatever it's everyone for themselves, you, me and your cows are open season and you may or may not get the drop on someone, despite the bluster and tough talk. Survival is about surviving, starting gun battles isn't a smart way to do that. Maybe keep your cattle out of sight??? And cutting your fence? Give me a break...
OK that sort of confirms what I had been wondering. All it takes is one.

By the way, there is no tough talk going on here. I am actually the easy going one in my neighborhood.
 

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Seems like a question of tactics to me. If I see an undisturbed (or even more telling, repaired or meaningfully maintained) fence that has a valuable resource behind it (cattle, in this case), I can be pretty sure that the area is being actively preserved. In the case that I was interested in said resources (unlikely, if I'm actually serious about this survival stuff) or in making contact, my first reaction wouldn't be to cut the fence and help myself... at the very least it's a pretty terrible breach of etiquette ^_^. No, I'd be camping out and scouting, trying to determine what security measures are active (cameras, motion detectors, active patrols, etc.) and how best to convey peaceful intentions to those measures.

If you have someone tramping around your land, using your resources, with apparently no thought as to why they are there in the first place, you're probably dealing with someone who has no idea what they are doing and are under the impression that if it's there, it belongs to them. Looters (the scary kind), would be a bit more discreet in their actions, and friendlies would be more aware of the larger picture. The scenario you've described is more likely a scared real estate agent with a gun. A show of force would likely be sufficient to dissuade them.
 

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Anyone is lying if they say they won't be profiling, not just racially, but demographically.
I'm going to treat a husband/wife/children group different than I will a bunch of 20 year old punks with their ballcaps on sideways.
I've never been nearly run over by parents and children dragracing, never had to respond to security threats from parents/children at my workplace, and never see them whooping, swearing, and bouncin beer bottles off of cars on a Saturday night. The same can't be said for the average North American 20 year old.
 

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Here's a very simple thought; A white flag has been a symbol of surrender for... well, a long time. If you saw me hiking through your property with a white flag attached to my pack, would that be enough or would you want me waving it around actively? Or would that even matter?
I don't think that would work anymore, uncleben. There's too much diversity in clothing styles, hiking kit, culture, etc. You'd have to literally be carrying a stick with a white sheet tied to it flapping above your head for anyone to get the drift of it these days.
 

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Here's a very simple thought; A white flag has been a symbol of surrender for... well, a long time. If you saw me hiking through your property with a white flag attached to my pack, would that be enough or would you want me waving it around actively? Or would that even matter?
I don't know about attached to the pack. I might think you're just hanging it out to dry as you walk. If you made an obvious gesture with a white flag, it might make a difference. It would show that you're aware of my presence. But I'm still going to be damned mad if my fence was cut and my cattle killed. If not, depending on circumstances, I might arrange a chat to see what's up.

Anyone is lying if they say they won't be profiling, not just racially, but demographically.
I agree. Heck, I profile now based on several criteria, which does include race, age, dress, etc. If they look like trouble, they probably are, and I want to be aware of the possibility as early as I can.
 
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