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That’s a nonsensical statement.
If I exclusively plan on always having more than one tool, and then PREP for that, and follow through...that’s good prep.
My backpacking gear has three knives JUST in the gear, not counting what I put on the outside.
My fishing vest has two knives on it. My Kayak has another. My truck has four knives, a hatchet and two saws, plus two multi tools, plus regular tools. My desk at work has two knives and a multi tool in it. My day pack has a knife and a multi tool.

Calling it “exclusive planning” to always have more than one of something makes no sense.



Redundancy denotes more of the same thing, so if you say redundancy aside, but then say you only plan on one tool....then you DID imply exactly that.

But all of that aside...LoL...”planning” on a tool to never fail is a poor example of prepping.
Which even you admit, as you then say we need backups.....which is exactly what I said.

So it appears we agree? Plan on having spares and other methods and tools available, not just one cutting tool?
We agree, but you're being an ass about it.

Let me try again:
Me think "survival knife" is tough knife. Hard to break. Chop, baton, pry, knife no break. You abuse "survival knife", it no care, knife no break. If it you only knife, you ok if you no lose it. But have second knife anyway, just in case. Maybe third knife too. Maybe even fourth knife. One tough knife and three regular knives better than four regular knives.
 

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To me, if you have “only” 1 cutting tool, you didn’t prep very well.



Because the 1911 isn’t 8-12 inches long, and rides higher on the hip without the handle digging into your ribs while the tip jabs you in the leg when you step up on a rock or a log.

Weight isn’t the only thing to worry about. That’s why he specifically said, “no 10” knife”.....
I only carry inside the pants, so the only considerations for me are flatness and weight.

Inside the pants an 8 inch blade knife (13 overall) will carry better than a 10" blade (15 overall), but not by much, and this includes concealment. The big advantage of the 8 inch is some chopping power remains, and you can still carry concealed across the small of the back, which allows opening the jacket while retaining concealment. .

There is no carry advantage to a blade far under 8", inside the pants concealed, unless using shoulder strap inverted carry.

Considering the toughness of knives, this in my opinion is overemphasized for survival. Notice above that my knives are ground thin enough that mishandling them becomes a problem with edge warpage. This is because otherwise the knife becomes hugely energy-intensive to use for any task at all... You try to cut twigs with a strong knife, and it takes several swings and they still hang on... You try to chop thicker wood, and the blade reverberates up your arm instead of sinking softly. A knife is a sub-optimal cutting tool for most uses, and I think the occasional cosmetic warp from a mistake (say once in a thousand hits) is a small price to pay for the relief of the thing actually doing the tasks with a semblance of efficiency.

The current knife standard is about 20 dps on a 0.030" to a 0.040" edge, but in reality it is often 22 dps or even a ridiculous 25 dps, and Busse is far from alone in going to monstrous 0.060" edges. I think 15 dps on 0.020", maybe sometimes with a slight microbevel opening things to 18-20 dps at the apex, leads to far better results.

One of the disadvantages with 15 dps edges is they do not make these nice featherstick "curls", because the edge is not open enough to "roll" the wood. You get these straight "hairs" instead. That is too bad, but the usefulness of the tool is just much greater, and even then, 15 dps hardly feels like a laser in my experience...

One of the big drawbacks of "strong" 20 dps edges is they would not be efficient at cutting flesh. This 20 dps standard is a 40 degrees combined angle.... That is just under half a square corner...: I have tried 20 dps numerous times, and it just makes every single task twice as hard as 15... The problem with 15 is the edge apex is not impervious to mistakes or careless use. I'd rather have a few wobbles in the edge. It will not matter to survival, and hardly affects sharpening. Quite to the contrary, thinner edges are always less work to sharpen, as are softer steels like 420, that actually stay straighter because the apex rounds off instead of bending.
 

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I only carry inside the pants, so the only considerations for me are flatness and weight.

Inside the pants an 8 inch blade knife (13 overall) will carry better than a 10" blade (15 overall), but not by much, and this includes concealment. The big advantage of the 8 inch is some chopping power remains, and you can still carry concealed across the small of the back, which allows opening the jacket while retaining concealment. .

There is no carry advantage to a blade far under 8", inside the pants concealed, unless using shoulder strap inverted carry.

Considering the toughness of knives, this in my opinion is overemphasized for survival. Notice above that my knives are ground thin enough that mishandling them becomes a problem with edge warpage. This is because otherwise the knife becomes hugely energy-intensive to use for any task at all... You try to cut twigs with a strong knife, and it takes several swings and they still hang on... You try to chop thicker wood, and the blade reverberates up your arm instead of sinking softly. A knife is a sub-optimal cutting tool for most uses, and I think the occasional cosmetic warp from a mistake (say once in a thousand hits) is a small price to pay for the relief of the thing actually doing the tasks with a semblance of efficiency.

The current knife standard is about 20 dps on a 0.030" to a 0.040" edge, but in reality it is often 22 dps or even a rifdiculous 25 dps, and Busse is far from alone in going to monstrous 0.060" edges. I think 15 dps on 0.020", maybe sometimes with a slight microbevel opening things to 18-20 dps at the apex, leads to far better results.

One of the disadvantages with 15 dps edges is they do not make these nice featherstick "curls", because the edge is not open enough to "roll" the wood. You get these straight "hairs" instead. That is too bad, but the usefulness of the tool is just much greater, and even then, 15 dps hardly feels like a laser in my experience...

One of the big drawbacks of "strong" 20 dps edges is they would not be efficient at cutting flesh. This 20 dps standard is a 40 degrees combined angle.... That is just under half a square corner...: I have tried 20 dps numerous times, and it just makes every single task twice as hard as 15... The problem with 15 is the edge apex is not impervious to mistakes or careless use. I'd rather have a few wobbles in the edge. It will not matter to survival, and hardly affects sharpening. Quite to the contrary, thinner edges are always less work to sharpen, as are softer steels like 420, that actually stay straighter because the apex rounds off instead of bending.
I keep my folders at 20, my big knives at 20 and my kitchen knives at 17.
 

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I only carry inside the pants, so the only considerations for me are flatness and weight.

Inside the pants an 8 inch blade knife (13 overall) will carry better than a 10" blade (15 overall), but not by much, and this includes concealment. The big advantage of the 8 inch is some chopping power remains, and you can still carry concealed across the small of the back, which allows opening the jacket while retaining concealment. .

There is no carry advantage to a blade far under 8", inside the pants concealed, unless using shoulder strap inverted carry.

Considering the toughness of knives, this in my opinion is overemphasized for survival. Notice above that my knives are ground thin enough that mishandling them becomes a problem with edge warpage. This is because otherwise the knife becomes hugely energy-intensive to use for any task at all... You try to cut twigs with a strong knife, and it takes several swings and they still hang on... You try to chop thicker wood, and the blade reverberates up your arm instead of sinking softly. A knife is a sub-optimal cutting tool for most uses, and I think the occasional cosmetic warp from a mistake (say once in a thousand hits) is a small price to pay for the relief of the thing actually doing the tasks with a semblance of efficiency.

The current knife standard is about 20 dps on a 0.030" to a 0.040" edge, but in reality it is often 22 dps or even a rifdiculous 25 dps, and Busse is far from alone in going to monstrous 0.060" edges. I think 15 dps on 0.020", maybe sometimes with a slight microbevel opening things to 18-20 dps at the apex, leads to far better results.

One of the disadvantages with 15 dps edges is they do not make these nice featherstick "curls", because the edge is not open enough to "roll" the wood. You get these straight "hairs" instead. That is too bad, but the usefulness of the tool is just much greater, and even then, 15 dps hardly feels like a laser in my experience...

One of the big drawbacks of "strong" 20 dps edges is they would not be efficient at cutting flesh. This 20 dps standard is a 40 degrees combined angle.... That is just under half a square corner...: I have tried 20 dps numerous times, and it just makes every single task twice as hard as 15... The problem with 15 is the edge apex is not impervious to mistakes or careless use. I'd rather have a few wobbles in the edge. It will not matter to survival, and hardly affects sharpening. Quite to the contrary, thinner edges are always less work to sharpen, as are softer steels like 420, that actually stay straighter because the apex rounds off instead of bending.
Are you talking about concealed carry for social purposes here?

If so, legality is something to take into account. Alabama is a weird state for instance: the only thing illegal to carry is a concealed "bowie" knife, which is defined as any fixed blade knife with a blade longer that 3 inches. Kitchen knives have been considered bowie knives under this definition.

Any knife may be worn openly, any folding knife may be concealed, any fixed blade knife with two sharpened edges may be concealed, and any fixed blade knife with a single edge with less than 3 inches of blade may be concealed.

To my knowledge, wearing a jacket over a sheathed, OWB knife is left to the officer's discretion as to whether or not it's concealed. I doubt most Alabamian cops would make a big deal of it unless you gave them a reason to. What I DON'T know is if a sharpened clip would constitute a second edge.
 

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My baseline criterion for a "survival knife" is the ability to build a lean-to shelter without constantly resharpening the blade or waiting for my hand to recover from overuse of an inappropriately-shaped handle.

My EDC are a little folder and my leatherman multitool, and almost everything I do that needs a knife, I do with those, but they aren't survival knives. The folder (like most folders) has a very flat handle, which wears grooves into my hand after a fairly short while. The leatherman's handle has a very rectangular cross-section, which is likewise unkind for hours of sawing/chopping/whittling.

I keep a bayonet in my backpack for niche purposes which require extended use or a more robust blade, like building a lean-to or pounding the edge into a seam and prying something apart. It has a thick blade, a hard steel which holds an edge, and a nice round, fat handle which won't kill my hand.

If I were somehow caught without my backpack and needing to build a lean-to, I guess I'd try wrapping my leatherman with tape or something, and cry a little if I broke the blade. It was a gift from 1999, and they don't build them anymore. But if I'm venturing more than a dozen miles from home, my backpack goes with me, and the big gnarly disposable bayonet with it.
 

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Are you talking about concealed carry for social purposes here?

If so, legality is something to take into account. Alabama is a weird state for instance: the only thing illegal to carry is a concealed "bowie" knife, which is defined as any fixed blade knife with a blade longer that 3 inches. Kitchen knives have been considered bowie knives under this definition.

Any knife may be worn openly, any folding knife may be concealed, any fixed blade knife with two sharpened edges may be concealed, and any fixed blade knife with a single edge with less than 3 inches of blade may be concealed.

To my knowledge, wearing a jacket over a sheathed, OWB knife is left to the officer's discretion as to whether or not it's concealed. I doubt most Alabamian cops would make a big deal of it unless you gave them a reason to. What I DON'T know is if a sharpened clip would constitute a second edge.
It’s an interesting question, this issue of what “type of carry” you decide to do in advance. To me there is no distinction between carrying a large knife down Main Street or in the woods, because you might still encounter people in the woods. In a remote or deserted area, this makes for a tense situation to begin with... One I don’t want to make worse by displaying a specific “tool style” that might appear as aggressive, even if ostensibly for a day or overnight hike. You might think you can predict with absolute certainty people’s reaction to a large knife. I’d rather side step the issue entirely.

Unlike hatchets or Swiss Army knives, large Bowies are seen as weapons by the public at large, so in my view carrying them openly is never appropriate. Furthermore, where I go, urban areas cut into woods, woods cut into urban areas, and I get there by bike or foot, so this distinction between urban carry and woodland carry never made any sense to me, not to mention that woods are far scarier places to meet someone than Main Street.

Then there are the actual practical disadvantages of open carry: The knife is exposed to cold and rain. On long knives, unless the tip is tied to your leg, it wobbles around if you walk fast, especially if the blade is over 8” and dangles low. It is somewhat more prone to grind into dirt, or get tangled into brush. I don’t claim this is is terrible way to carry, but given the effect a large knife might have on people, who may not always be exactly what you expect, there are definitely not huge gains in practicality to open carry.

I realize many people are not slim enough for kidney carry, and across the spine might bind on the back pack: These are fair points, although the backpack issue can be mitigated with careful placement, depending on its type.

There are other, more minor, problems with inside the waistband carry: Unless the blade is perfectly immobile inside the sheath, body motion and belt tension will either twist the sheath or rock the blade, and cause at least one area of the edge to regularly touch inside the sheath. Sweat also penetrates the sheath’s inner surface, unless a waterproof layer, either varnish or plastic, prevents this.

Because a large knife is not a common sight anymore, just to avoid comments or attention, or avoiding causing fear, I would never carry one openly. I just don’t see the point of openly carrying such items, when the alternative is fairly easy.
 

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We agree, but you're being an ass about it.

Let me try again:
Me think "survival knife" is tough knife. Hard to break. Chop, baton, pry, knife no break. You abuse "survival knife", it no care, knife no break. If it you only knife, you ok if you no lose it. But have second knife anyway, just in case. Maybe third knife too. Maybe even fourth knife. One tough knife and three regular knives better than four regular knives.
So I was right, exactly as I said. Sorry if it hurt your feelin

Are you talking about concealed carry for social purposes here?

If so, legality is something to take into account. Alabama is a weird state for instance: the only thing illegal to carry is a concealed "bowie" knife, which is defined as any fixed blade knife with a blade longer that 3 inches. Kitchen knives have been considered bowie knives under this definition.

Any knife may be worn openly, any folding knife may be concealed, any fixed blade knife with two sharpened edges may be concealed, and any fixed blade knife with a single edge with less than 3 inches of blade may be concealed.

To my knowledge, wearing a jacket over a sheathed, OWB knife is left to the officer's discretion as to whether or not it's concealed. I doubt most Alabamian cops would make a big deal of it unless you gave them a reason to. What I DON'T know is if a sharpened clip would constitute a second edge.
Not to be an ass, but in many states, constitutional concealed carry makes it legal to pack a knife like he said.

Meanwhile....Gaston is, I believe, in Canada. No idea what their laws are, but I bet they aren’t the same as Alabama.
 

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So I was right, exactly as I said. Sorry if it hurt your feelin



Not to be an ass, but in many states, constitutional concealed carry makes it legal to pack a knife like he said.

Meanwhile....Gaston is, I believe, in Canada. No idea what their laws are, but I bet they aren’t the same as Alabama.
All good, I misread your tone.

Unfortunately Alabama isn't a constitutional carry state, our sheriffs keep killing the bill over lost revenue. And while we're already pretty lax on knives I don't think constitutional carry legislation would touch on knives in any way. My understanding is that the law specifically targeting "bowie knives" would have to be repealed or altered. Alabama currently issues a "pistol permit", not a "concealed weapons permit" and it explicitly states on the permit that it permits concealed carry of a pistol only, and no knives or other weapons. Any other weapon that IS legal to conceal is simply unaffected by ownership of the permit.
 

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All good, I misread your tone.

Unfortunately Alabama isn't a constitutional carry state, our sheriffs keep killing the bill over lost revenue. And while we're already pretty lax on knives I don't think constitutional carry legislation would touch on knives in any way. My understanding is that the law specifically targeting "bowie knives" would have to be repealed or altered. Alabama currently issues a "pistol permit", not a "concealed weapons permit" and it explicitly states on the permit that it permits concealed carry of a pistol only, and no knives or other weapons. Any other weapon that IS legal to conceal is simply unaffected by ownership of the permit.
One thing worth pointing out, which is a big difference between Canadian law and US law, is that in Canada you cannot be bodily searched unless it is clearly stated what specific crime just occurred that you are being searched for, and what are the reasons that might link you to that specific crime (at the very least a proximity in time and place I suppose). It goes even further than that: The officer must be in the process of actually investigating that crime, so it can't be something that occurred days ago unless you are dealing with an actual detective assigned to this particular investigation, who is in the process of carrying out that investigation.

So a Policeman basically has to state what specific crime just occurred that he is in the process of investigating, before a bodily search can even begin. Pulling that requirement on an officer is likely to raise suspicions, but it will at least demonstrate you know Canadian laws well, and that breaching them will likely invalidate any charge.

In the US there is NO such protection against bodily searches...: Maybe an officer has to come up with a vague "suspicious behaviour" claim, but that is a lot less than having to bring up an actual verifiable reported crime, which would be illegal for him to make up out of thin air.

I am not at all in favour of restricting Police powers: I think enough restrictions are in place already, and criminals know very well how to exploit these limitations (it is a salient feature of everything they do), but as far as this is concerned, I think it is an amazing difference between the US and Canada: In the US, the minimal privacy of what is under your clothes, even outside of any suspicious behaviour, is not guaranteed, while in Canada that basic privacy is significantly more protected.

P.S. As far as Canadian knife laws go, aside push daggers, switchblades, knuckledusters and wraparound guards, the only restriction to carry in Canada is intent of use: As long as it is NOT self-defense, everything with a justifiable use passes. But if you claim your Swiss Army knife is also for self defense, you are in trouble... Never, ever mention self defense.
 

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My with CWL (Concealed Weapons License), I can carry anything, even a katana down my pant leg if I so wish. Without a license, you can only open-carry, and the blade can't exceed 12". Every state is different and some states allow local municipal restrictions that often are far more limiting. Sadly, I work on federal property where I'm limited to a blade that is only 2.5" or less:cry:
 

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I've been looking for a new fixed blade knife. In cruising all of the various online forums, it seems as if the term "survival knife" means different things to different people. At what point does my Leatherman Wave become a survival knife? It seems as if any knife that I have with me in some sort of survival situation becomes a survival knife. How many people who own, what is being called a survival knife, have actually used it for more than cutting a piece of line? I suppose it also depends on where and how it's used. If I keep it in my truck, that's different than if it's in my daypack on a one day hike in the mountains. Anyway, bottom line, what is a survival knife for you?
Imo it is a loaded term with no actual meaning like assault rifle.
 

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We agree, but you're being an ass about it.

Let me try again:
Me think "survival knife" is tough knife. Hard to break. Chop, baton, pry, knife no break. You abuse "survival knife", it no care, knife no break. If it you only knife, you ok if you no lose it. But have second knife anyway, just in case. Maybe third knife too. Maybe even fourth knife. One tough knife and three regular knives better than four regular knives.
if that's your definition, I'm thinking k-bar or kukri jmo ymmv
 

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Not being a knife-beater, I would consider a small belt axe to be a better "survival" tool, by far. I've always got a pocket knife for doing most knife things. A simple belt knife for doing larger knife things. For other tasks, other tools are far better suited, no sense in trying to force a knife to do those things. Axes, saws, splitting wedges, etc...
 

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To me, a survival knife is a knife that was made or obtained with the purpose in mind of being used when all other equipment fails.

Like my USAF "pilot's" survival knife, it will probably outlast me. I've used it for everything and it's seen me through some rough times. From being used as a hunting and fishing knife in SD to bleaching out in the sun in the desert. As many ropes I have cut with it, wood split, tent pegs pounded, and steaks from the chow hall cut, the only thing that happened to it is the handguard has a little play in it now and I had to replace the sheath once.
Tool Wood Metal Gun accessory Dagger

Good choice. The U.S. government chose these two models as their military issue jet pilot survival knives (JPSK). The first military issue model made by Camillus under contract (on the right in photo) was with a 6 inch blade and twist off (for easy access/repair from 1957-58) heavy steel hex head pommel designed for bashing through aircraft canopy of downed aircraft, and to serve as a hammer and head basher, etc.

The sawback on blade was designed for sawing through fuselage (sheet metal) of downed aircraft. The squared off steel guard comes with two holes on the top side to tether knife for keepsake and to tie onto a staff for use as a survival tool, as in spearing game, fish or for long range weapon in combat.

From 1959 to 1961 the 6 inch blade JPSK continued but the pommel was peened on permanently thus no more the twist off pommel. In 1962-1966 the first military issue 5 inch blade model JPSK by Camillus was introduced (knife on left in photo) to replace the 6 inch blade after feedback from enlisted military personnel that the knife was too long for cramped cockpit space and slower to draw in combat situations.
 

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Survival Knife? I know one when I see one but they are hard to define aren't they?

There certainly is a lot of garbage out there. Bad profiles, bad steels and gimmicks.

If I was planning on going in to the woods, or up against a foe or wild animal, I'd carry at least 2 or 3 knives because one knife isn't capable of doing everything.
 

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If I had to define what a "survival knife" is, in a way to make it stylistically consistent with all the knives that have historically borne this label for decades, I would loosely define it as a stout fixed blade knife with at least two essential features: At least a bevelled clip, a swedge, or some kind of active spine feature, then, secondly, a double guard to go along with the active spine feature. An attached sharpening stone (or fire-making device) would be a common extra accessory, typically mounted on the sheath. But an active spine design, of some kind, and the double guard, are really the two basic characteristics that would define the "Survival Knife" term in a meaningful way.

"Stout" implies a fairly broad looking blade in proportions: Say at least 1.2" wide for a 5" length, or 1.6" wide for a 10" length, and at least 3/16" of spine thickness for side loads.

The reason to define it that way is that if you have a single guard, or a drop point, the knife can still be used as a "Survival Knife", but it no longer has any design features that distinguish it from, say, a really stout kitchen knife meant for outdoor use... Such knives, when large enough to chop with, are more appropriately called "Camp Knives", or "Utility Knives" when small.

Most Bark River knives are thus "Camp Knives" or "Utility Knives", as are nearly all Busses (The Busse "Team Gemini" would be a near-exception, having a sort of embryonic double guard, but its "clip" is not really a clip, being only an angled drop point, so not an active spine feature as such). A "Camp Knife" can serve perfectly well as a "Survival Knife", but it simply lacks the proper visual cues in my mind. If the term does not convey a specific design intention, what is the point of it?

That's my take on it.

P.S. Would the term then be appropriate for a large double-edged dagger, since the second edge would be "an active spine feature"? I would think the answer should be no, as long as the two edge grinds are the same depth, meaning there is no distinguishable "spine" side... So the definition of a "Survival Knife" would be: "Stout double guard knife design that attempts to make a differentiated active use of the non-edge blade side."
 
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