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Hello. I have been told from many sources to avoid military camo at all costs as it will make you stick out like a sore thumb. Grey man is a great idea. But its use is rather limited compared to what most people think. Once everyone has bugged out and **** has hit the fan and the immediate chaos has kind of calmed down, everyone becomes fair game. If you see another person, you WILL have something they want. Everyone is struggling for resources, the sheep have all died off. Now it is only the wolves and the prepared sheepdog left. At this point, the benefits of greyman have worn off. As now, any man is a target of interest to everyone. There may be the occasional trade, but your best bet is to assume everyone is a threat. Why not don military camo? It will give you a tactical advantage on your opponents. Multicam has been known to be effective in a wide array of environments. What are your thoughts on this?

EDIT:
To everyone, sorry I did not make it clear. By camo, I was talking about Multicam or some other military camo. Where I am from, hunting camo is considered grey man, but that does not mean someone decked out in military camo will be in grey man. And I mean camo from head to toe like you look like you're on day leave from the barracks.
 

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Isaiah 41:10, Acts 5:29
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Depends on what S has HTF.

If the S is shariah, since I'm a woman, I might be better off wearing a ******* burka, niqab, hijab (whatever the predominant dress is) and still blending in (gray woman).

If the S is UN or other violent political action, gray man might still be the way to go (think French Resistance during World War II), especially if one has to cross municipal, county, or state borders/checkpoints.

If TEOTWAWKI, it's still going to depend on what S caused it.

In some places, camo is gray man :rolleyes:

If PAW/WROL, most people will likely shoot on sight anyone not in their MAG/family wearing camo and approaching their BOL, as they are advertising they are a threat and are likely able/intend to do at least some damage. In PAW/WROL, castle doctrine will be king, and employed vigorously and to the max for protection of family/MAG.
 

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Hello. I have been told from many sources to avoid camo at all costs as it will make you stick out like a sore thumb
Depends on where you live I guess. 10-20% of people here are wearing camo right now. Nobody gives them a second glance. With clothing styles as diverse as they are the only thing that would make you stick out here is a suit and tie.

But yes. In general I think "The Grey Man" is overrated.

I think most of the time people say they aren't doing such and such prep because they want to be a grey man it really means they just don't want to prep.
 

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Hunting is a big source of food in my area and everyone, hunter or not, wears camo.

I agree with Aerindel, if you have not prepped for something just to blend in, then you don’t really prep, you are keeping up with the Jones’.
 

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There is camo and there is camo. I'd say it is more an issue of not over doing it.

Scenario: Three fellows going down a game trail. One guy up on the ridge. The three guys could be the good guys and the other a nasty. Or the 3 are raiders and the 1 guy is outer defenses. Or everyone is a nasty. Or good and just in the wrong place.

Guy on the ridge is in a good shot position. He's not a 'trained' sniper, but a good deer hunter. And has a good exit route.

1] He can decide to ignore them; either because they don't look like they are worth bothering with; or are going away from his area of operations.

2] He can decide to take one out [and maybe 2 if they don't react fast] and scat.

So who is he going to shoot at?

1 fellow is in full military combat gear, down to the helmet and boots. Mil style camo backpack.

1 fellow is wearing a camo hunting jacket, hat, and tan or olive drab pants. Good style hunting/hiking backpack. Good hunting/hiking boots.

1 fellow is wearing jeans, tan long sleeve shirt. Fishing hat. sneakers. just a cheap walmart dark backpack; with a broken down fishing rod strapped to it.

All are armed with similar AR's [no time for guy on ridge to figure out any differences].
3 guys can be walking in any order; they are reaching the point of our ridge fellows best shot. Who will the ridge fellow take out?

[if you want you can add a slightly less pleasantly plump [since SHTF has caused a diet], mid-60's woman in jeans, deck shoes, smaller back pack, assortment of canteens, and walking stick. No point in a rifle; not a hot shot. Maybe a shot gun. Definitely a machete. And who knows what else. If said slightly less pleasantly plump woman is in the front, she is waving the walking stick around to knock out the spider webs because she wears glasses and hates spiders getting into her long hair].

Anyway, the ridge fellow can figure on one kill shot. Who does he decide to shoot at?
 

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There is camo and there is camo. I'd say it is more an issue of not over doing it.

Scenario: Three fellows going down a game trail. One guy up on the ridge. The three guys could be the good guys and the other a nasty. Or the 3 are raiders and the 1 guy is outer defenses. Or everyone is a nasty. Or good and just in the wrong place.

Guy on the ridge is in a good shot position. He's not a 'trained' sniper, but a good deer hunter. And has a good exit route.

1] He can decide to ignore them; either because they don't look like they are worth bothering with; or are going away from his area of operations.

2] He can decide to take one out [and maybe 2 if they don't react fast] and scat.

So who is he going to shoot at?

1 fellow is in full military combat gear, down to the helmet and boots. Mil style camo backpack.

1 fellow is wearing a camo hunting jacket, hat, and tan or olive drab pants. Good style hunting/hiking backpack. Good hunting/hiking boots.

1 fellow is wearing jeans, tan long sleeve shirt. Fishing hat. sneakers. just a cheap walmart dark backpack; with a broken down fishing rod strapped to it.

All are armed with similar AR's [no time for guy on ridge to figure out any differences].
3 guys can be walking in any order; they are reaching the point of our ridge fellows best shot. Who will the ridge fellow take out?

[if you want you can add a slightly less pleasantly plump [since SHTF has caused a diet], mid-60's woman in jeans, deck shoes, smaller back pack, assortment of canteens, and walking stick. No point in a rifle; not a hot shot. Maybe a shot gun. Definitely a machete. And who knows what else. If said slightly less pleasantly plump woman is in the front, she is waving the walking stick around to knock out the spider webs because she wears glasses and hates spiders getting into her long hair].

Anyway, the ridge fellow can figure on one kill shot. Who does he decide to shoot at?
What's their body language? You've got one, maybe two folks who are pleasantly plump (and who's to say that's not a grey man tactic in itself.) Who's moving like they're military? Who's schlepping along?

Killing the woman would create greater psychological damage but her perceived threat level would be lower initially. Hit the one who looks like a tight coiled spring, regardless of what they're wearing. Or leave 'em be. And next time, take more ammo.
 

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I think you are figuring a regular gun battle 'take more ammo'. But a smart sniper shoots then moves/eaves. I used the ridge idea because the OP was from NCAL. Being in FLA to have the high ground basically means you are in a tree stand or on a roof; both of which are easily flankable.

Reading body language is useful. But most useful for someone who has actually served in combat. A hunter with no military experience 'reads' body language differently. Ditto with a 'civilian' who is just a good shot. A hunter could probably easily tell a non-hunter. A hunter might also guess a military fellow just by figuring said military fellow isn't a 'civilian' or a 'normal hunter'.

I do have to disagree with you about dealing with the 'tightly coiled spring' first. Not from any personal military experience, but information gathered from my Dad. He said a kid being In-Country one or two days on his first patrol could freak from a leaf being moved by a mosequito landing on it. And depending upon the 'kid' it took time for him to get experience. Dad also said you should always aim at the calmest, most composed fellow -- meaning VC of course.

So I'd follow his advice. And/or make a notice of who seems to be in command -- you can often tell it by body language/how people look at each other.


BLESS YOU! BLESS YOU! BLESS YOU!

are pleasantly plump (and who's to say that's not a grey man tactic in itself.
No longer is 'pleasantly plump' just part of 'food prepping'. I can now also consider it part of grey man/woman.

And
Killing the woman would create greater psychological damage
being a mid-60-ish woman is also a compliment!
 

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I find the "gray man" approach works well for me. As for camo, I have olive for this time of year because its green as **** out there, but in a couple months it will be dead as **** so time for beige. At night maybe a dark gray. In the city dress as the others do. Do not limit your wardrobe, you must blend in no matter what part of SHTF it is.
 

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A technique used by thieves is changing clothing while running, thus obscuring the identification by observers .that is how to grey man.
 

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Here is another scenario: there will be two men on the ridge, not one; they will not be the guards for the "group". They would be the bad guys, waiting to rape, rob and kill anyone passing by. And the three guys on the trail would, probably, be bad guys also (or very stupid) or would not be walking in the open.
 

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The better method is to see who is giving directions. If two guys are giving hand signals to each other and the third is just walking, then you take out the two guys first. Look for who is paying attention, how they walk, talk, communicate, the position of their weapon.

Real question is why is nobody guarding their rear?


Matching the people in your surroundings is grey man as it gets.
 

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Hello. I have been told from many sources to avoid camo at all costs as it will make you stick out like a sore thumb. Grey man is a great idea. But its use is rather limited compared to what most people think. Once everyone has bugged out and **** has hit the fan and the immediate chaos has kind of calmed down, everyone becomes fair game. If you see another person, you WILL have something they want. Everyone is struggling for resources, the sheep have all died off. Now it is only the wolves and the prepared sheepdog left. At this point, the benefits of greyman have worn off. As now, any man is a target of interest to everyone. There may be the occasional trade, but you're best bet is assume everyone is a threat. Why not don military camo? It will give you a tactical advantage on your opponents. Multicam has been known to be effective in a wide array of environments. What are your thoughts on this?
In some places like down here in Florida being the "Gray man" means wearing camo. There are ******** down here that go hunting regularly and camo is an everyday attire here. In the big city not so much, with camo in an urban environment you would stick out and be noticed. Being the gray man means to fit into your environment and not be noticed. In the SERE book of the U.S. Army it says to act like the indigenous people. so if the majority wear camo and you have an Armani suit, you have been made.
 

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A technique used by thieves is changing clothing while running, thus obscuring the identification by observers .that is how to grey man.
Unless the person chasing said thief follows the trail of discarded clothes (note that the act of removing clothing slows the person down :D: Eventually, he looks rather funny running down the street in his boxers and sox :D: This is also why when looking at said thief, one notes the different colors and the order from outside in, so the updated changing description can be radioed (or called) into dispatch :D:
 

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Hello. I have been told from many sources to avoid camo at all costs as it will make you stick out like a sore thumb. Grey man is a great idea. But its use is rather limited compared to what most people think. Once everyone has bugged out and **** has hit the fan and the immediate chaos has kind of calmed down, everyone becomes fair game. If you see another person, you WILL have something they want. Everyone is struggling for resources, the sheep have all died off. Now it is only the wolves and the prepared sheepdog left. At this point, the benefits of greyman have worn off. As now, any man is a target of interest to everyone. There may be the occasional trade, but you're best bet is assume everyone is a threat. Why not don military camo? It will give you a tactical advantage on your opponents. Multicam has been known to be effective in a wide array of environments. What are your thoughts on this?
who cares it is about utility. People who think they are invisible are often foolish. Smart people see people whether they are dressed in calvin klein levis or proper. There are so many contexts. Average people don't screw around with people wearing military equipment if they fit into it.

IMO in terms of prepping it is all about having good clothing for the context you are in. Civies are horrible if they won't save your life in bad weather. Military kit is useless on the same grounds, but often military kit is better geared towards weather.

Fact is I think people who say go greyman are more concerned about urban issues and don't have a clue about weather events.

Often commercial kit for weather costs 2 to 3 times as much as equivalent surplus military kit.

It is really that simple.

Fact is why exactly are your trying to blend in anyway. If you aren't doing anything criminal the gov shouldn't give two squats, fact is being monitored by the gov means you are that much safer if other people are doing nasty stuff.

On the flip side, hoods don't screw with people who look dangerous. Not saying kit makes you look dangerous but it doesn't make you look as vunerable as someone in designer clothes they can rip off your back and resell.

Meanwhile lots of utility wear is absolute junk. cheap means it wears down fast.

I think disguise and blending in can be useful in some circumstnaces but the clothing quality and use really doesn't compare to good military clothing.

Although people wearing crappy cotton BDU etc.. not too functional. I've seen tons of people wearing the stuff these days cammo really isn't that uncommon anymore.

I would never say dress up as current issue military though especially your own as that is going to scream stolen valour.

Good military kit is good clothing though, it wears well, it is good for weather, and it is hardy.
Really that simple.

Again not sure why you are trying to blend in anyway. It is better to be known than unknown.

Now during an occupation sure different story but during peacetime, go for good clothing don't even think about blending in because anyone with intelligence will be profiling you regardless of what clothing you are wearing. Dress for the environment.

Generally I find if I am dressed "different" people avoid me, it isn't something that makes you a bigger target, it keeps people away from you. Also I have found that police and security tend to be more cautious dealing with you and it is easier to be remembered and forge personal relationships with them over the long term. Being known doesn't have to be negative contacts it can be positive interactions but you need to insure you interact in a respectful and recognizing way.

I think people who want to be grey are people who are up to no good and the reason they don't want interactions is because their illegal activities would be unearthed much easier.

Being totally law abiding there are no concerns.



Also have to add, being grey isn't simply about not dressing in camo gear.

Just yesterday I was out with a safari hat and vest and someone commented on it. You even wear a hat no one else in the city is wearing and suddenly you are different. However that image can be a friendly one, or a concerned one.

How you dress creates an interaction of archtypes and stereotypes. It is communication, communication isn't just verbal. Regardless of what you wear you are still communicating. What you are communicating however is just that, any message you want.

However, simply looking like something won't fool intelligence, they will be looking at deeper traits than what you are dressed in, how well shaved you are, etc... profiling can occur on many fronts not just dress. The grey man however is to create an impression that one will not be a point of interaction or dislodging people from their sleep and zombie processes. It is about not disrupting the coma that surrounds people who are not awake or on duty to pay attention to the world around them. People with intelligence will be aware of their surroundings, and not concerned about only peoples "communication" but rather about their potential capabilities -- where can this person hide a weapon, how long will it take them to reach me, do they have room for explosives, could they be in reach of pickpocketing me, how strong is their physique etc..

fashion is only part of the equation for the people you need to worry about the ones who will see you as an object for use, not simply keying into their pattern of life where most people function from.


The grey man mentality is only part dress, you need to learn to adopt cultural habits, habitus, functions and forms and discourses to really blend in. Some old white dude who never set foot in the hood before the day he stepped in in hoodwear will still stand out in the hood.


Flip side today also - I didn't bring my coldwet jacket (acu) with me, I normally wear it as an overgarment but opted just to wear a shirt well temp dropped and lots of rain.. I was regretting not taking it with me.
 

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Was at a middle school track met on Saturday.
1:10 people had at least one piece of camo on. Granted it was 37f but still.

Some places camo is normal. Year round.

And maybe it's naive but post-SHTF, anyone going around shooting people who may be potential allies probably ain't gonna last very long.

If the predictions are right, the remaining bad guys won't last long if they don't play ball.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
To everyone, sorry I did not make it clear. By camo, I was talking about Multicam or some other military camo. Where I am from, hunting camo is considered grey man, but that does not mean someone decked out in military camo will be in grey man. And I mean camo from head to toe like you look like you're on day leave from the barracks.
 

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To everyone, sorry I did not make it clear. By camo, I was talking about Multicam or some other military camo. Where I am from, hunting camo is considered grey man, but that does not mean someone decked out in military camo will be in grey man. And I mean camo from head to toe like you look like you're on day leave from the barracks.
I think it will be mission specific. The "Gray Man" concept is universal but very much location specific. Blending in to your environment is dictated by your environment. Camouflage is only beneficial if you're stalking, scouting, patrolling. While avoiding observation from others, your movement attracts more attention than what you wear if, even if it's solid, drab colors.

I do agree SHTF will be in phases. Just remember that how you're perceived will determine the reactions of others. If it's just your property and you want to patrol the perimeter, camo-up! If you're traveling to a trading post or heading into a small town for supplies, your tactics and dress may have to change.

I've moved away from most of my military gear. Solid drab colors fit in better for the majority of what I will likely need. I can still carry a decent combat load "under" my gray man look; once SHTF goes full on kinetic, I can transition to a more open carry method as needed.

ROCK6
 

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At some point, you may need to transition from gray man to your minute man loadout. You do have one I hope. Every patriot should. It is part of our heritage and our duty as sovereign citizens to be armed and stand ready to defend our communities if we can and our home and families for sure. Also, so that we patriots may stand together against the gathering tyranny that is building. Different scenarios call for different tactics, improvise, adapt, and overcome.
 
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