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straight shooter
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This is what it takes to be cured of ebola according to 12 board-certified critical care specialist MDs, all of whom were directly involved in treating this one patient. Be sure and read the the part WHY YOU AIN'T FIXING THAT AT HOME I imagine this is what you'd expect to receive from Emory or NIH and I'm not dissing Dallas Presby in any way. They will be the only ones left after the rest of the hospitals close should this thing take off like wildfire.

Kids, Don't Try This At Home! Curing yourself of ebola, that is.

NEJM has just published a clinical case study of the course of treatment provided to a man sent to Germany with fulminant Ebola virus infection.

The patient was a 36 y.o. male epidemiologist who became infected in Sierra Leone, probably by a colleague with whom he shared an office and bathroom. Said colleague contracted Ebola and died.
Patient was treated for malaria at first, by quickly became symptomatic of and tested positive for Ebola. On Day Ten after initial symptoms, he was transferred to Germany for intensive treatment.
Day 1: malaise, headache, bodyaches
Day 2: Fever of 101.2 F
Day 6: Positive Ebola blood test
Day 7: abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
Day 8: Beginning of IV fluids and single-dose antibiotics
Day 10: Transfer to German hospital ICU isolation ward in Hamburg
Blood tests: suggestive of massive dehydration, lab values totally ****ed up (that's a clinical term)
Ultrasound of inferior vena cava (the route blood from the body takes to get back to the heart) showed that it was flat. In other words, circulation was upgefuchten (German clinical term).
Patient ****ing out more than 2 gallons of diarrhea per day for 3 days straight, and digestive tract blocked. Given 10 liters of IV fluid/daily, plus potassium supplements
Ebola blood concentration begins to decrease
Day 11: feeding tube placed
Day 13: vomiting stopped; Fever and general secondary infection noted, more antibiotics started
Day 15: central venous line placed; diarrhea decreased to less than 1 quart/day
Day 17: Ebola absent from blood concentration
Day 18: altered mental status and respiratory failure; placed on external ventilation
Day 20-25: hallucinations and delirium
Day 26: respiratory and mental recovery
Day 30: Ebola no longer detected in urine
Day 40: Ebola no longer detectable in sweat
Day 60: Patient discharged to return home to Senegal.

Read more http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/kids-dont-try-this-at-home.html
 

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Sinner w/ a great Savior
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Don't try this at home. Until there isn't a better option.

I like what Mels said: "Would I drop off my husband or son at a school gymnasium to lay in the floor and die alone and uncared for while a pathetically understaffed, undertrained few people couldn't care for them? Not in this lifetime. If that would be considered tantamount to suicide, oh well. That's just the way I see family."

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=6820726&postcount=154

We've been discussing and trying to work out the methods of home care over in the prepping thread. Worth a read, all of it. Although I skim a lot :upsidedown:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=361235
 

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straight shooter
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2,164 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Don't try this at home. Until there isn't a better option.

I like what Mels said: "Would I drop off my husband or son at a school gymnasium to lay in the floor and die alone and uncared for while a pathetically understaffed, undertrained few people couldn't care for them? Not in this lifetime. If that would be considered tantamount to suicide, oh well. That's just the way I see family."

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=6820726&postcount=154

We've been discussing and trying to work out the methods of home care over in the prepping thread. Worth a read, all of it. Although I skim a lot :upsidedown:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=361235
Agreed. Early on before hospitals become overwhelmed and patients are lying on gurneys in the hallway chances of survival are decent. Later on, I'd just as soon die at home.

The article did bring up one very important point.....don't get it in the first place and echoed in the comments as well. I live like a hermit so it's easy for me but my kids and grandkids are another story.
 

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Peas and Carrots!
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36,851 Posts
The actual article this blog article was taken from is much more informative.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411677#t=articleTop

This patient was also had Hep. B before he got Ebola, and at some point developed gram-negative septicimea. (I found that trying to find out why they were loading him with antibiotics for a viral infection. :xeye:)

That the patient survived at all is amazing in itself.
 

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Grevcon 10
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13,727 Posts
Day 40: Ebola no longer detectable in sweat

On another thread there is a debate that ebola is not in sweat or not. Here we see that at some point it was and now is not not.
What worries me most is that he was still shedding virus in his sweat for 23 days after testing negative for Ebola. The nurses were released within a day or two of not showing Ebola in their blood, so if this is right they may still be shedding Ebola in their sweat right now. :eek:

How are you feeling today, Mr. President?
 

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This might be one time when modern medicine increases the risk of dying from a virus. I dunno.

The story of the Liberian doc, who survived - mostly due to ORS - and in very primitive conditions - is a counterpoint to this worthy account. Then, there was the nurse (Sierra Leone, maybe?) who tended her family at home. Clearly, a person would have to be desperate to attempt to nurse an ebola infection at home. It's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

And clearly: not getting the infection in the first place is everyone's desire. I don't see any reason for going out in public and trying to maintain "normal" habits. For any reason. And I'm hoping I'm only using PPE to ONLY handle essential trips out in the early days of any spread... that I'm all set to pull up the drawbridge and wait it out - weeks or months before.
 

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If it took that patient 60 days to recover how'd those two nurses recover so fast. Plus it talked about hallucinations and some pretty violent episodes of vomiting and diarrhea but one of the nurses was being interviewed via Skype as she peacefully lay in a bed. I'm serious when I ask, what am I missing here?
 

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Grevcon 10
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If it took that patient 60 days to recover how'd those two nurses recover so fast. Plus it talked about hallucinations and some pretty violent episodes of vomiting and diarrhea but one of the nurses was being interviewed via Skype as she peacefully lay in a bed. I'm serious when I ask, what am I missing here?
Antibody transfusions, discovered decades ago by backwater Congolese doctors, works despite everything the who and CDC said about it not being a viable treatment. They won't build the infustructure for it in West Africa, but look what they do when their own people get Ebola.

Every indication so far says we can save most of the lives in west Africa by just setting up blood drives. We could pay recovered Ebola patients for their plasma and help stop both the outbreak and economic collapse there. Not enough profit in that apparently. Need an artificial drug that can be patented.
 

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Bushidoka
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The Most Surprising Info to Me Personally?

The actual article this blog article was taken from is much more informative.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411677#t=articleTop

This patient was also had Hep. B before he got Ebola, and at some point developed gram-negative septicimea. (I found that trying to find out why they were loading him with antibiotics for a viral infection. :xeye:)

That the patient survived at all is amazing in itself.
Amazing story! New and helpful information in almost every paragraph. Thanks for the link, Mel.

Well I was surprised when we learned that fever only develops in 88% of cases. From this article, however, we are told that....
Diarrhea and vomiting have been observed in 66% and 68% of patients, respectively, in the current EVD outbreak,

Holy smokes, no fever and now no vomiting? How would you ever know what you were dealing with without advanced diagnostic testing?
 

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Sinner w/ a great Savior
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Antibody transfusions, discovered decades ago by backwater Congolese doctors, works despite everything the who and CDC said about it not being a viable treatment. They won't build the infustructure for it in West Africa, but look what they do when their own people get Ebola.

Every indication so far says we can save most of the lives in west Africa by just setting up blood drives. We could pay recovered Ebola patients for their plasma and help stop both the outbreak and economic collapse there. Not enough profit in that apparently. Need an artificial drug that can be patented.
How well do transfusions work? (Asked in another thread as well.)
 

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Grevcon 10
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13,727 Posts
I'm not privy to the medical records of every ebola patient and no one's released the official study on the current outbreak, but so far they're 100% for Americans. The study back when they first tried in a dinky clinic in rural Congo, I'm not completely sure, but I believe it was 8 out of 11 survived.
 

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Bushidoka
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It Was 7 Out of 8! Where's That Link to the Dinky Congo Clinic Study?

How well do transfusions work? (Asked in another thread as well.)
I'm not privy to the medical records of every ebola patient and no one's released the official study on the current outbreak, but so far they're 100% for Americans. The study back when they first tried in a dinky clinic in rural Congo, I'm not completely sure, but I believe it was 8 out of 11 survived.
Colt I think you posted that link, didn't you?

I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure it was 7 out of 8 because I almost fell off my chair. Not only that, but the responses of the patients to the transfusions--though administered at different times (in the course of the illness IIRC) seemed quick and positive. I think even the one who died suddenly seemed better, and later she was found dead on the floor.

Small sample, but striking results.
 

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Bushidoka
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Shedding Through Sweat Actually Continued Beyond Study

What worries me most is that he was still shedding virus in his sweat for 23 days after testing negative for Ebola. The nurses were released within a day or two of not showing Ebola in their blood, so if this is right they may still be shedding Ebola in their sweat right now. :eek:

How are you feeling today, Mr. President?
If you read the published report Mel cited, it is clearly shown in the graph, and confirmed in the article, that sweat continued to show detectable levels of virus particles beyond the end of the study period at Day 40, though it ended in urine by Day 30 and in blood and other fluids much sooner.

Not sure what tissues the water for sweat passes through before being excreted through sweat glands and pores, but supposing it is the lymphatic system, could it be that there are a lot of old waste materials collecting there that take awhile to mosey out of the system after the rest of the circulation is back to normal?
 

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straight shooter
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Discussion Starter #15
If it took that patient 60 days to recover how'd those two nurses recover so fast. Plus it talked about hallucinations and some pretty violent episodes of vomiting and diarrhea but one of the nurses was being interviewed via Skype as she peacefully lay in a bed. I'm serious when I ask, what am I missing here?
A variety of strains? Early on it seems that there were 5 that had been identified. The patient in Germany had other complications including septis which would account for the lengthy recovery time. We could assume that since both nurses were in contact in Duncan that they have the same strain. The cameraman also had a fast recovery.

I'm not convinced that these survivors still cannot be carriers. If it can survive in semen for nearly 2 months where else could it be hiding? Are the male survivors abstaining from sex? If they can't seem to self quarantine.....
 

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Grevcon 10
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A variety of strains? Early on it seems that there were 5 that had been identified. The patient in Germany had other complications including septis which would account for the lengthy recovery time. We could assume that since both nurses were in contact in Duncan that they have the same strain. The cameraman also had a fast recovery.

I'm not convinced that these survivors still cannot be carriers. If it can survive in semen for nearly 2 months where else could it be hiding? Are the male survivors abstaining from sex? If they can't seem to self quarantine.....
Are you proposing chastity belts?
 

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How well do transfusions work? (Asked in another thread as well.)
Transfusions provide some antibody protection. It is a small amount but buys a couple days while your own body ramps up production.

One thing of concern is that this type of virus is very prone to mutations and depending on the antibody attachement the prior persons body made, you need to have the same shape/protein on your virus for the antibodies to attach to.

It also matters if you are getting more binding or destroying antibodies.

I think you might hear more about Xigris or Protein C in the future.
 

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Study to Look at Blood Products From Ebola Survivors as Treatment
http://online.wsj.com/articles/stud...-from-ebola-survivors-as-treatment-1414089917

But the evidence is limited. In a 1995 outbreak in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, seven out of eight Ebola patients who received whole-blood transfusions from recovered patients survived, according to a study published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases. But the researchers said the relatively low fatality rate may have been due to better care among the transfused patients than other Ebola patients in that outbreak, and that further study was needed.
 
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