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RockOut w/ your GlockOut
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Discussion Starter #1
I received this E-mail this morning. What do you guys think. Are these statistics accurate?



Oldy but Goody,,,

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY LESSON !!!!!

Think about this...and go to town and get a little more ammo.


A Little Gun History Lesson

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.


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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, some 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, some 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

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It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely a affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this history lesson.

With Guns.............We Are 'Citizens'.
Without Them........We Are 'Subjects'..

During WW II.. II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED !

Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard U 1919-1921 & was Naval Attache to the. U.S. . 1925-28. Most of our Navy was destroyed at Pearl Harbor & our Army had been deprived of funding & was ill prepared to defend the country.


It was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U.S. Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in the U.S. & knew that almost all households had guns.

If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all your friends!
 

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AKA The Dragon
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We knew that tighter gun laws in Australia would be a waste of time and money but no one listened to us, it was a knee jerk reaction and, scoring political points to the Port Arthur massacre.

I mean no disrespect to the victims and their families.

Some say the new legistration was already written before this happened.
There were reports that the shooter had a history of mental problems, was not properly treated because of funding shortfalls in our mental health system.

The money that was wasted on the buy back scheme should have been used for the mental health system.
But no, every tax payer in this country was levied for a fruitless exercise.

There were also reports about the weapon, it was reportedly handed in to another state authority for destruction, yet finished up in a gun shop in another state where he walked in, bought it over the counter with no precise background checks available at the time.

This brings us to the black market in illegal arms trade in this country, that is why the crims can get what they want at any price.

The law abiding gun owners were crucified, the laws are becoming stricter each year since the legistration.

Illegal arms are being smuggled into this country across our northern national borders from Asia and PNG in small boats.

In the US, if tighter gun laws are introduced, what is going to be done about the illegal weapons.
Buy back like we had, don't think so, cost is to high for no real result. It will just make the black market and gun runners more lucrative, and you have land borders.

Your authorities can't even stop or control the drugs runners at sea, air and land crossings. How are they going to deal with increased gun running?

There are controversal reasons why some types should be banned, and to some extent I agree.

However based on your historical statement, yes I was told a similar story many years ago from a Greek man and what happened in his country preceeding WW2.

History does have a habit of repeating itself, humanity is just too stupid to learn the lesson.
 

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It's pretty common knowledge here that the gun buyback scheme ended up increasing the number of illegal guns on the street. So far only one person has been convicted but my personal belief is he was just the tip of the iceberg and many more of the guns that were supposed to be destroyed made it out onto the street after honest, law abiding citizens who safely stored those guns handed them in.

It's a complete joke anyway. Anybody with halfway decent metalworking skills and an internet connection can make a workable firearm. Real gun control would focus on the ammunition. Making gunpowder and primers would be a lot harder.
 

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AKA The Dragon
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2,818 Posts
Yep,
There is a type of tracking system here on how much you purchase, restrictions on how much you can own.
A couple of years ago within a matter of a week the laws changed on purchase of powder.
Day one I purchased some powder, retailer checked my weapons license and had to sign a register to complete purchase.
A few days later, went to buy some more. The retailer had to phone a federal number with my weapons and drivers license details to get clearance from this agency for me to purchase the powder. Not just me but all customers.
I still remember that day vividly.
 

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Statistics aren't that useful. Homicided rates have been fairly stable for almost a hundred years in Australia. Crimes involving firearms are about the same level pre and post buy back. Most crimes involving firearms still involve unlicenced weapons. All the buy back really achieved was to change the mindset of the average non-shooitng public so that now if you are known by non-shooters to be a sporting shooter you're likely to be seen as a bit of a deviant. The real aim of the ban wasn't really to change the stats, the policy maikers at COAG knew there wouldn't be much change, but to have a broad effect on community perceptions of gun owners and to create greater tolerance for more strict regulation down the track. Personally I think it's ridiculous that a sporting shooter or recreational hunter can't own a semi-auto rifle here. The only part of the new weapons laws that I agree with are the requirements to keep firearms well secured and to have a licence.
 

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Yep it's a generational thing. If your parents have no guns then it's likely you won't if the licenses are tough and expensive to get. Then after a few years there is no more hunting, people just watch TV and play Wii instead.
But the fly in the ointment is the uncivilized people of the world like the Afghans and Somalis and Arabs are breeding way faster than the rest of us. Guns will come back to your world someday. The British and French are learning this right from all their new immigrants.
 

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Bratach Bhan Chlann Aoidh
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It would seem that everything is cyclic.
It sucks to be on a downturn.
 

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Here's my safety Sir
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A little off subject but some of the best gun powder in the good old USA is manufactured in Australia . Hodgdon powder is made in Mulwala, NSW, Australia .

Thank you Australia it's what I reload with.
 

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Bratach Bhan Chlann Aoidh
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You're welcome madcritter.
Never heard of it but I'm glad you like it.
 

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Semper non compos mentis
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We all have our crosses to bear I guess

Hi Bret

My thoughts, as requested. First, you quote statistics at least 16 years old - not a viable basis for any discussion. Remember - Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics, in worsening order. Old statistics are like an out of date Chinese newspaper to me - totally useless and less than meaningless.

You make reference to a whole lot of historical gun control scenarios, which were largely driven by despots, madmen, zealots, communists, fascists and just plain wankers, leading countries all over the globe. Let me ask you this, Bret - which category does the Australian Prime Minister / Government fall into, in *your* considered opinion? Please think before answering, as I am very serious in asking you. I may not like him/them, but I do *not* like non-Aussies talking my country down. That's our prerogative, pal.

Why do you think you need to tell us how much gun control sucks? Like we don't know. You ought to be concentrating on ensuring your own country does not go where we have been. I don't like gun control any more than anyone else, but I don't like it when people on the forum have a go at the Poms, us or any other country that has already fallen prey to this disease and tell us to rise up and take control, blah, blah, yada, yada. Fix your own problems, before they get too bad and let us deal with ours.

Your question was polite, but maybe a little loaded, my reply I hope is likewise. Thanks for asking for our opinion.

Best regards, Herne
 

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RockOut w/ your GlockOut
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Discussion Starter #11
I received this E-mail this morning. What do you guys think. Are these statistics accurate?

It was an e-mail I received and was wondering if it was accurate.


When arguing gun rights I like to know some facts about it. I can easily show examples of states where open carry of firearms has reduced crimes, but I am looking for real statistics of gun control gone wrong. Have robberies actually gone up 44 percent after gun restrictions in Australia? I've heard that stabbings have risen in the U.K. after more gun control.

If so, then these are strong talking points when promoting the 2nd amendment and the right to defend yourself.

I am on a small crusade to convert and just looking for some ammo, no offense intended.
 

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AKA The Dragon
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Their are still shootings, usually gang, drug, passion, siege related, and robbery.

However the incidents of stabbings and bashings related to robbery, gang, alcohol, passion, drugs, racism, road rage and home invasions are on the increase often resulting in death.

Here, it must be understood that a shooting in self defence can and does result in prosecution irregardless of how violent the crim is, it is not tolerated by our legal or political system.

If the police have to use a firearm in a situation, their is an internal investigation, often a feel good thing for the public. They have a very difficult job and, snap decisions have to be made to protect themselves and the public, victims.

Not all of them are gung ho, using a firearm is the last resort.

In fact any form of self defence can result in legal law suites by the crim for injuries received.

The authorities here don't want a vigilanty type or, taking the law into our hands situation to resolve a violent situation, just call the police and hope they arrive in quick time if at all before someone is seriously hurt.

As is so often the case, it is too late.

I don't have any stats at this time, but I am sure one of the ANZAC members maybe able to help, but most would probably agree with what I have said.
 
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Lemming herder!
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I will be so untterly pissed if they EVER try that crap in N.Z.

N.Zers used to have a reputation for going along with the government stance due to their lay-back attitude.

Nowdays thank god, even if they haven't actually woken up, they still view their government with a HUGE dollop of cynicism and politicians as bloated, folly-ridden, power-crazied beauracrats.

I'm sure the reaction would be akin to a local beer marketing catch-phrase based in Kiwi sacasm;

"Yeah, ...Right"

(translation; "not likely" or you are "deceiving me")
 

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Laws... only the law abiding abide by them.

Lambs to the slaughter and that's all the wolves see them as.

Drunk, no arms but what my hands are attached too and as usual in this state, I wouldn't blink an eye at removing the hands or any other body part of a thief if presented with one. Even though we are constantly told by the police and govt to just hand over what they want and bend over for the coming butt rape / death.

People are waking up slowly and getting to the point where they will make it very clear they have had enough of the liberal hugging hippies and their minions in police hats who support those who will take as they wish... lives or property.
 

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Ockham's Razor
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Personally im all for owning semi-auto weapons
the garand is classed as a semi auto and we cant even own one of them....


BUT....
i spose the point of making semi-autos illegal is you can suppress a target(s) with one
further more...... most of them have fairly quick method of reloading - eg: magazine

compared to say a single or mag fed bolt action....... supressing a target would be a pain


so based on the point above i would have to agree with the ban.... no matter how much i want one for hunting or targets
although i do agree that crims are going to have them anyway.... they're the ones that are going to be doin the suppressing
 

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New Days New Tribes
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I don't think we are ever going to end up like Stalins russia, but with all the bannings and laws getting changed, I can't help but feel we are being herded.
 

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Ockham's Razor
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i agree.... life is getting a little more restrictive
but i dont think you notice the laws unless you go looking for them

(more specifically gun related)
i do think a couple of the license categories do lump a lot of weapons together


the only reasons i have/(want other) guns is for hunting, targets and if the situation ever arises.... this (survival)


i think australia is a pretty safe/calm place....... so i cant say i need it for protection
 
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