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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know we have some armed forces veterans on the board and long distance hikers on the board so I am hoping they will weigh in and give their opinion.

Back in the Gulf War there was a British SAS patrol in Iraq called Bravo Two Zero doing surveillance work. Long story short they were discovered by the Iraqi forces and pursued for days on foot across country. Some were captured/died and one escaped.

It's been years since I read the book so my recollection may be off on some facts.

Books and a film:
Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNabb
The One That Got Away by Chris Ryan

What I am interested in is how the accounts describe what it was like being pursued on foot by hostile forces....think looters/people who want to injure you.

If you are planning on using a bob and you wait too long to move, is this what happens to you?
The British soldiers were in good shape yet Murphy's Law pops up and they had to abandon gear and also they started having problems with their feet.

Is bugging out on foot unreasonable for long distances?
 

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Not being in combat I wouldn't know, but basic sociology dictates that yes, the more desperate the person, the more active they will be in their search for food, water and amenities, and in some situations, people may indeed attack others. If you catch it early, bugging out long distances on foot may work fine for you, and that is what my family and I may have to do. It was just bad luck that an Iraqi patrol decided to set up camp next to their hide, and even more bad luck that a child stumbled across them!

Murphy's Law will definitely apply in such a situation, careful movement at night may work better for some, as long as you have light, sound and movement discipline, but sometimes it may be that it's just not your day!

Early planning, observation and drills may be able to take care of this, good luck!
 

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Back in the Gulf War there was a British SAS patrol in Iraq called Bravo Two Zero doing surveillance work. Long story short they were discovered by the Iraqi forces and pursued for days on foot across country. Some were captured/died and one escaped.
The book "Bravo Two Zero," along with McNabb's other non-fiction book, "Immediate Action" are excellent material. The movie "Bravo Two Zero" is interesting but I just can't get over that baseplate compass mounted to the side of that M-16. I mean, did McNabb act as a technical advisor and put that in there to try to sort out the poseurs who would say they were in the Special Air Service or what? Basic compass handling guidelines for U.S. Marines and Soldiers address this sort of thing.

My brother and I have this little inside joke about that movie, we call him "Wrong Way McNabb" because if he had his compass mounted on his rifle like that, which we're fairly certain he did not, no wonder he got lost in Iraq.

They also lost some of their medical and survival kit when they ditched their packs. Amazing they didn't have it on their person as is supposed to be the case.

They were also concerned about the number of green candies in their rations. :cool:

What I am interested in is how the accounts describe what it was like being pursued on foot by hostile forces....think looters/people who want to injure you.

If you are planning on using a bob and you wait too long to move, is this what happens to you?

The British soldiers were in good shape yet Murphy's Law pops up and they had to abandon gear and also they started having problems with their feet.

Is bugging out on foot unreasonable for long distances?
Few of us on these forums are going to be in as good a shape as your average SAS Trooper. That having been said, few of us are going to be packing a Bergen that weighs well over 80 pounds, too. A lot of people with their 3-long gun battery and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and their bolt cutters and crowbars are going to learn something really, really quick - the roads, streets and highways are going to be littered with so much gear, it's going to be insane.

Hopefully, some people who would chase you to begin with will be intrigued by the discarded detritus along the trail and stop to search it allowing you to escape.

If only we were so lucky...

I'm sure I didn't totally answer your questions. I think if you wait too long in an urban environment, if you don't split like the people that thought Vesuvius was going to erupt...and it did...you are behind the curve and playing catch-up.

Are you going to have people with you? Do you have what it takes to really open fire on a mob that is set on catching you...running you down... Hard decisions. Ultimately, the only thing that allowed that particular SAS Patrol to escape was firepower. Then the long and treacherous E & E attempt to Syria culminating in one success, several KIAs and POWs.
 

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We carried a lot of gear and were expected to be able to cover a lot of distance while remaining undetected.

Being lightly armed and outnumbered usually if we were discovered and attacked we were pretty much screwed, our weapons were primarily for defensive use. Which is why we practiced stealth. While we did provide some recon and surveillance patrols but primarily conducted direct action missions against specific high value targets.

Moving long distances carrying a lot of weight will wear you down quickly even if you are in superb shape, which is why it is important for the survivor to evaluate every piece of gear for function and weight.

Ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Youtube has the film in parts about the Bravo Two Zero patrol.

Also,

there is another film on YT about the patrol by Michael Asher who undertook research about the patrol.

Asher used to have his book online which he wrote about the patrol.

I found McNab's book to raise several issues which might help folks considering bugging out on foot:

Weight on your back
Supplies
Your feet
Terrain
Weather
Folks chasing you who want to make your acquaintance but who you do not want to meet.
 

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Yes, it is unreasonable. Especially if you have a large and determined military organization chasing you. They aren't limited to traveling by foot, aren't forced to be unobtrusive or limited in the amount of supplies they have.

Mobs and looters aren't going to pursue very far, be organized or carry supplies.
 

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predators of all kinds (two and four legged) have a decision to make - is the energy expended worth the prey? Am I expending more energy than the reward will be?

In war, all bets are off, since combat is not about life, but rather about nations.

In a SHTF situation, making the reward expensive (long chase, difficult terrain) might make the chaser change his mind. Shooting one of his comrades might make him made enough to keep up the chase....
 

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Yes, it is unreasonable. Especially if you have a large and determined military organization chasing you. They aren't limited to traveling by foot, aren't forced to be unobtrusive or limited in the amount of supplies they have.

Mobs and looters aren't going to pursue very far, be organized or carry supplies.
I totally disagree based on historic evidence of past events.


Watch this video series. It will answer your question. It is a great Episode Ray Mears put together. It describes your situation very closely and how people over came a large force of shoulders attempting to track them down. Just watch it. This story is amazing because of how this small group of people overcame a massive Nazi Force hunting them down for year after year in the woods and still came out alive.





 

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Warfare though sometimes appearing chaotic, is generally organized. SHTF looters will not be such unless led by rogue military. Even then, leading a bunch of untrained, undiciplined individuals is medeocre at least. Consider these facts when planning your defence/bug out stratagy.
 

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Well, one thing I like about bringing up something like Bravo Two Zero in a survivalist forum is...McNabb at least had a place to head to, with the reasonable anticipation of support and safety if he got there, however ungodly the distance and how ever impossible the odds.

We don't even need the threat of the whole Iraqi Army or even just their Republican Guard units as a threat...

If everything breaks down, where do these backpack 'survivalists', whether going light or heavy in their rucks, plan on going? They're basically armed refugees traveling into other people's areas when those ahead of them, similarly equipped were parasites at the least, raiders at the worse. Why do they think they'll survive with just a backpack?

Let's say you're one of the many of us preppers who have a solid location, picked in advance for being secure, with lots of logistics. What will you think of individual or small groups of males, carrying weapons, wearing MOLLE gear, but not military or police, in their own self style fantasy uniforms, each literally 'an army of one'?

Probably meets the future hostile criteria to drop on sight from cover and bury with the others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
dontbuypotteryfromme,

is that the book written by the NZ fellow, The Real Bravo Two Zero? Or similar sounding?

Have not had a chance to read it or get it yet.

Prepping,
this is part of what I thought-your comments.
Replace the Iraqi army with armed civilians that a Bug Outer might encounter.

What I have thought is this:

if a person is planning on doing a BO routine they need to have:
caches along the route
different routes
reasonable weight on their back-the lighter the better
timing-when to leave...when not to leave.
always allow for Murphy's Law.

The fellows in the book all were highly trained but ran into problems. Yes, I know there were different circumstances but one thing in McNabb's book and Chris Ryan's book is the mention of feet problems when a person is travelling on their feet long distances.
 

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The book "Bravo Two Zero" is largely fiction. A British journalist with a long history of desert and mid east experience interviewed many of the Iraqis that the patrol come into contact with and retraced the patrols route. Even recovering some of their lost great and taking pictures of some of their lost weapons.

I was very disappointed.
 
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dontbuypotteryfromme,

is that the book written by the NZ fellow, The Real Bravo Two Zero? Or similar sounding?

Have not had a chance to read it or get it yet.

.
Yes I have read it. Would be worth while for us because it goes into what is a realistic distance to travel what weights you have to carry.

One of the elements in the book is that the distances may have been stretched a bit.

Basicly the dude backtracks the route taken and talks to the locals who were involved
 

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Escape and evasion is hard but as long as you have a plan and can adapt to changes quickly with alternate routes and plans you will be unaffected.We always had several extraction points etc in case an area was occupied etc.The key is to plan for everything to go bad.All the way down to one of you losing a limb etc.
 

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Being in a desert is a tough place to begin with. You might can cover a decent amount of ground day and night but it's hard to evade a well supplied patrol when you're on foot.

Had they been in the mountains, woods or jungle, there odds of survival and escape would have been greatly enhanced.
 
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The biggest mistake of the Bravo two zero mission was going into the desert on foot in the first place.
It's the first rule of traveling in the desert, always have transport. Even if it's just a camel.

Second biggest mistake was not having good established communications.

Actually the biggest mistake was putting McNabb in charge of the mission, the whole failure happened because he insisted on a foot patrol in total ignorance of the desert.

If you look at how the Australian SAS operates in the desert, you won't see any foot patrols. The desert is no place to be on foot, your combat and recon effectiveness is Zero.

If you look at how the Australian snipers move around the desert it's always with transport, at minimum with motorcycles. They are never far from transport.
The minimum that the Bravo two zero team should have had was Quads with trailers and a land rover supply vehicle with fuel,food and ammo.

The Quads can roll straight out of the chopper carrying all the gear a soldier needs, he does not have to abandon gear like foot patrol does when compromised. Just has to pull back the throttle and get out of the situation.

A Quad can carry more water, food, ammo and weapons over far greater distances than a soldier on foot. They have even mounted 50 cal machine guns and MK 19 automatic grenade launchers on the front of Quads. Nightvision goggles are plugged directly into the Quads power supply, so night travel is possible and far safer. Quads can be easily hidden in hollows and dips camouflage covers make them virtually invisible by day.

The combat and recon effectiveness of a Quad is far greater, by increasing mobility for long-range patrols, increasing firepower and ammunition, increasing time in the field without resupply. And if you had to make a hasty withdrawal most if not all of it could be done on the quad.
 

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The biggest mistake of the Bravo two zero mission was going into the desert on foot in the first place.
It's the first rule of traveling in the desert, always have transport. Even if it's just a camel.

Second biggest mistake was not having good established communications.

Actually the biggest mistake was putting McNabb in charge of the mission, the whole failure happened because he insisted on a foot patrol in total ignorance of the desert.

If you look at how the Australian SAS operates in the desert, you won't see any foot patrols. The desert is no place to be on foot, your combat and recon effectiveness is Zero.

If you look at how the Australian snipers move around the desert it's always with transport, at minimum with motorcycles. They are never far from transport.
The minimum that the Bravo two zero team should have had was Quads with trailers and a land rover supply vehicle with fuel,food and ammo.

The Quads can roll straight out of the chopper carrying all the gear a soldier needs, he does not have to abandon gear like foot patrol does when compromised. Just has to pull back the throttle and get out of the situation.

A Quad can carry more water, food, ammo and weapons over far greater distances than a soldier on foot. They have even mounted 50 cal machine guns and MK 19 automatic grenade launchers on the front of Quads. Nightvision goggles are plugged directly into the Quads power supply, so night travel is possible and far safer. Quads can be easily hidden in hollows and dips camouflage covers make them virtually invisible by day.

The combat and recon effectiveness of a Quad is far greater, by increasing mobility for long-range patrols, increasing firepower and ammunition, increasing time in the field without resupply. And if you had to make a hasty withdrawal most if not all of it could be done on the quad.
Dead on with this post, Mc Nab was/is an idiot who got comrades killed and captured, he was strongly advised by the Regimental Sergeant Major Peter Ratcliffe and by the squadron C.O NOT to patrol on foot. His books are bulls**t. Read Ratcliff's story "Eye of the Storm - 25 years on the SAS", great book.:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 
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