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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of the things that makes me wonder is the lack of a water plan in these commercial survival kits. I suppose they may be a good place to start, but without decent drinking water (the Red Cross says 1/2 gallon a day for drinking) most kits, commercial or home make, are seriously lacking the most important element for our survival, WATER!

So, since I'm a green horn on this forum, I thought I'd ask the experts on the best way to provision a bug out bag with water.

1) Water Packets (like SOS brand)
2) Water Boxes (like Aquablox brand)
3) One time use filters (like Aquamira Frontier & Frontier Pro)
4) Replaceable element filters (like MSR, Katadyn & Others)
5) Membrane Filters (Like HTI X-Pack and LifePack)
6) Water purification Tablets (like Aquamiria & Oasis)
7) Or a combination of two or more

I have my ideas on each one, but I thought I would just throw this out for your opinion first to start this discussion.

Ready, set GO! :thumb:
 

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AAAH GET TO ZE CHOPPA!
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I'm an amateur at prepping, but the kit I keep in my car includes a few 3/4 full disposable water bottles (air gap allows for pressure changes from the cold). For a bugout kit or just to have around the house, I also have some water purification tabs. I plan to replace the watter bottles every season.

You will likely hear varied opinions about which kind of plastics are safe to store water in. This is what I found from amateur research online:

On the bottom of most plastic containers is a recycle symbol with a number. That number designates what type of plastic it is. Some are safer for drinking than others:

#1: the most common type for water bottles and jugs; more suitable for one or two-time use. They will eventually break down if you start to reuse them a lot, but from what I have read they don't contain anything that would be toxic to you.

#2, #4, #5 are safe to store water in.

AVOID #3, #6 and #7 because they can leech harmful chemicals into the water if they are heated or exposed to sunlight for extended periods.
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm an amateur at prepping, but the kit I keep in my car includes a few 3/4 full disposable water bottles (air gap allows for pressure changes from the cold). For a bugout kit or just to have around the house, I also have some water purification tabs. I plan to replace the watter bottles every season.

You will likely hear varied opinions about which kind of plastics are safe to store water in. This is what I found from amateur research online:

On the bottom of most plastic containers is a recycle symbol with a number. That number designates what type of plastic it is. Some are safer for drinking than others:

#1: the most common type for water bottles and jugs; more suitable for one or two-time use. They will eventually break down if you start to reuse them a lot, but from what I have read they don't contain anything that would be toxic to you.

#2, #4, #5 are safe to store water in.

AVOID #3, #6 and #7 because they can leech harmful chemicals into the water if they are heated or exposed to sunlight for extended periods.
Do you have any idea what 2 Liter Pop bottles are? I dont drink them, so I have no idea.

Thanks
 

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AAAH GET TO ZE CHOPPA!
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edit: oops, double post
 

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AAAH GET TO ZE CHOPPA!
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Do you have any idea what 2 Liter Pop bottles are? I dont drink them, so I have no idea.

Thanks
Hmm, I think they are #1 or #2. Don't have any on me at the moment. My guess is #1, thats almost standard for commercial botted liquids. Almost anything "food grade" will be a safe plastic.

Two chemicals used when processing some plastics have been surrounded by controversy- phthalates, and Bisphenol-A.

Phthalates were used as a softening agent for PVC and some other industrial plastics, they are being phased out for health concerns. You will likely not find these in any food-grade containers.

Now put on your tinfoil hat. Bisphenol-A is more controversial and harder to avoid, because it is used in a LOT of plastics. It is especially present in polycarbonate water containers like Nalgene bottles and baby sippy cups (typically designated as #7 plastics, the catchall "other" category.") Canned goods are also coated on the inside with a thin shellac that prevents bacteria from growing in the can (which is definitely a good thing.) That coating also has Bisphenol-A in it, which leeches into the food when the can is pasteurized (that heating process we do to milk and canned goods to kill bacteria.) BPA is an environmental estrogen, and leeches into the water when exposed to high temperatures. The big controversy is over what long-term effect (if any) results to prolonged exposure and consumption of BPA in small quantities. The FDA is currently getting a lot of heat for playing the "results are inconclusive" game so you will likely see BPA getting phased out over time.

Now, before you go throwing out all of your canned goods, know that there are still a lot of studies being published about whether or not it has a big effect on grown adults. Some chemicals are detrimental to infants and smaller mammals, but adults can handle them just fine. Also, plastics type 1, 2, 4 and 5 do NOT use BPA (hence the recommendation.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Identification_in_plastics
 
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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok, so we can store water in certain types of bottles, but in a BOB, thats a lot of weight which takes us back to the original post. Would it be a good idea to have a combination of stored water and something else like one of the items mentioned in the original post.. does anybody have an opinion about the effectiveness of those items?
 

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First, make sure you have enough water stored at home. You can store water in your vehicle, but account for temperatures and rotate every six months or so. For a bug-out bag, water will be the most weight you have to carry. A gallon is 8.3 pounds; that’s a lot of weight, but it’s essential. It really depends on your location. If you don’t have too many water sources, you’ll be forced to carry more. If you have water sources, you can carry less, but have the means to filter/purify it.

I use to carry a 2 quart Nalgene container of water in my truck along with a 2.5 gallon water can. I left my Camelback bladder and a couple of water bottles empty and planned to fill as needed if I had to leave my vehicle. I would plan for at least a gallon of water initially (more if you’re in a place with fewer water sources or extremely hot temperatures).

Water is an essential element and requires redundancy to ensure you’re covered. I did a lot of tactical communications planning, and we used the acronym P.A.C.E.

Primary
Alternate
Contingency
Emergency

That’s how I plan my ability to filter/purify water. A quality water filter is mandatory for me. Using activated carbon is a good option to deal with possible chemical contaminates. There are plenty of other options, but other than a straw-filter that you can drink through directly, you need a container. Along with a container, having the ability to boil water is another time-proven method to make suspect water sources potable (minus chemical contamination). Don’t forget improvised methods such as the water-filter sack/container where you can pre-filter with grass, sand and charcoal from a fire. So for me:

Primary: Katadyn water filter
Alternate: MSR MIOX (needs to be pre-filter before purifying)
Contingency: Potable Aqua, Polar Pure (preferred) and/or Micropur purification tablets
Emergency: Filter Straw (Aquamira has a good one)

I would add a last category, which would be a good metal cup/pot that I could boil water in; along with knowing how to improvise using vegetation and clear plastic bags for respiration collection (I have used and don’t care for solar stills) and making an improvised gravity filter/still. Knowing where to find water is also a critical skill that must receive plenty of attention and training.

As long as the storage containers (Camelback/Platypus bladders/containers, Dromedary bags, Nalgene water bottles, stainless bottles like Guyot or Klean Kanteen, Military canteens, etc.), make sure that you rotate the water periodically…every 3-6 months will keep you with potable water when you need it.

ROCK6
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree with you on the contingency and back up idea on water. I currently have 36 SOS 4 oz packetts in my kit, as well as an Aquamira Frontier Pro for filtering water thats from a river or water that requires a boil order from a municipality. But if my source water is really bad (like a dead animal in it - and there is nothing else to drink and I'm also dying) then Ive got the chlorine dioxide tabs by Aquamira - they even kill crypto, then I can filter it with the frontier pro. I have used the HTI X-Pack, and I am amazed that it filters EVERYTHING bigger than a water molecule - which is every pathogen known - right down to the size of 3-5 angstroms! Both the tabs and the X-Pack water filter are rated by for EPA guidelines for Microbiological Water Purifiers. While the Frontier and Frontier pro drinking straws are good, like nearly all filters including Katayn, they dont meet those criteria. So, when in doubt, I use the combo method of treatment and filtering. But, with the HTI solution in the X-pack, there is never a need to treat before filtering. Another interesting aspect of the X-Pack and other reverse osmosis filters is that they also ad calories via the process of filtering. There is a great video on YouTube about that system and also the new AquaMira frontier Pro.
 

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I have used the HTI X-Pack, and I am amazed that it filters EVERYTHING bigger than a water molecule - which is every pathogen known - right down to the size of 3-5 angstroms! Both the tabs and the X-Pack water filter are rated by for EPA guidelines for Microbiological Water Purifiers. Another interesting aspect of the X-Pack and other reverse osmosis filters is that they also ad calories via the process of filtering.
Thanks for the info on the X-Pack, interesting filtration method. How does the water taste with the syrup/gel stuff? That would be an ideal filtration system around any urban crisis where most water would be suspect of contamination/viruses. I wonder if there is another additive that would help drive the osmosis process if you ran out of the syrup mixes....????

ROCK6
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
X-Pack Taste

Its like a non carbinated sports drink - kinda citrus flavor. With those, it takes some time 2-4 hours for the good water to produce. So, having water on hand (like SOS water pouches or others) is a good thing. The thing about the X-Pack that I like is the fact that you can recharge it up to 30 times. But, then you toss it. Still..... having it give you calories is a plus.
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mix your own syrup

One more comment .... I bet you could make up your own syrup if the right concentration was met. You'd just need to have some clean water and sugar.
 

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Go to guy
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As far as a BOB we use 1 liter bottles initially but, allow ourselves a means to purify and carry water. We carry a filter system and a five gallon water bag.
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Water is an essential element and requires redundancy to ensure you’re covered. I did a lot of tactical communications planning, and we used the acronym P.A.C.E.

Primary
Alternate
Contingency
Emergency


ROCK6
I like this acronym. Thanks!
 

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I have a 2 liter TNF hydration bladder in my BOB and a couple of different small filters and purification. Its always better to filter water and then purify it, as filtering doesnt remove virus's. Some filters like the katadyn exstream filter bottle and the pre-mac pocket filter have iodine resin beads in them that the water flows over to purify it as well as filtering. There are loads of differnent purifcation methods out there, i use chlorine/iodine tabs and iodine drops as there easy to use without to much messing around measureing the right amounts. Iodine shouldnt really be used long term but has the advantage of being able to clean wounds and some brands contain potassium iodide which floods your thyroid gland with iodine so it doesnt absorb much radioactive iodine 131 if your drinking water that might be contaminated with nuclear fallout. Chorine tablets are safe to use long term but both will leave a horrible taste in the water. You can get neutralising tablets that remove the taste if your really that bothered by it but i dont bother with them.
The katadyn hiker filter somes with a couple of different adapters that make it easier for filling hydration bladders and water bottles.

My latest blog is all about filters and purification so take a look for more info....

http://uksurvivalist.webs.com/apps/blog/
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have a 2 liter TNF hydration bladder in my BOB and a couple of different small filters and purification. Its always better to filter water and then purify it, as filtering doesnt remove virus's. Some filters like the katadyn exstream filter bottle and the pre-mac pocket filter have iodine resin beads in them that the water flows over to purify it as well as filtering. There are loads of differnent purifcation methods out there, i use chlorine/iodine tabs and iodine drops as there easy to use without to much messing around measureing the right amounts. Iodine shouldnt really be used long term but has the advantage of being able to clean wounds and some brands contain potassium iodide which floods your thyroid gland with iodine so it doesnt absorb much radioactive iodine 131 if your drinking water that might be contaminated with nuclear fallout. Chorine tablets are safe to use long term but both will leave a horrible taste in the water. You can get neutralising tablets that remove the taste if your really that bothered by it but i dont bother with them.
The katadyn hiker filter somes with a couple of different adapters that make it easier for filling hydration bladders and water bottles.

My latest blog is all about filters and purification so take a look for more info....

http://uksurvivalist.webs.com/apps/blog/
Well, apparently this is what the HTI filter gets rid of.....

Bacteria
Virus
Parasite
Heavy Metals*
Petroleum*
Pesticides,Fertilizers*
Salt in brackish water***

* Typically removes in excess of 95%
***90% salt removal from brackish water, 97% salt removal from sea water for the SeaPack.

This info I found off of their PDF Download on their website.
 

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this does look quite impressive, ill have to take a look at the website when iv got more time. does anyone know how much any of these are? where to get them?
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I think you can buy them right from the HTI website. You might call them if they have any dealers in your state. I think they are trying to put these out on the consumer market, and may not have a huge dealer network yet. I understand they've done quite well with military orders though...

Update: I found the filter pore size from the PDF document ...

"The pores in HTI’s membrane, through which the water passes, are 0.0003 microns in diameter. This is roughly the diameter of most single atoms, providing more than 200 times better protection than provided by common microfiltration handpumps."

Dude! 0.0003 microns! LOL! Aren't most pump filters like 2-3 microns?
 

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Christian Survivalist
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey no problem. I'd buy one now, but I'm currently laid off. Let us know what happens. I have no idea if they have dealers in the UK. The website says they make those in Albany Oregon. I dont think they have any overseas dealers. But they might make you a deal on shipping - perhaps slow boat.
 
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