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I realize it would be ideal to have both. What do you think would be the most bang for your buck?
Please, if you have a favorite water purifier or water tank website let me know. The only tanks I could find online (that I liked) are called SUREWATER tanks and they seem a little spendy. thanks for your help
 

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HA.....! :D:
I was just coming here to talk about H2O issues this morning.
In a survival/shtf situation having drinkable, safe water could be priority #1. I'm always thinking of being "on the move" so the storage tank idea does not seem practical. I'm considering a major purchase of a top of the line H20 purification system.
This is what I'm leaning toward
Katadyn Endurance
expensive yes, but its an amazing filter and really not something that should be compromised on.
-13,000 gallon capacity
-Ceramic filter can be cleaned
-Weighs 20 ounces


http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/CAMP154-1.html
 

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I've heard great things about that filter. thanks for the suggestion. I might have to get that one myself
 

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I agree you cant go wrong with any Katadyn water filter. I have used them for years and they are by far the best imo.

The cheapest way to go for a home water filter would be to make your own bio sand water filter. They are simple to make and will filter enough water daily for alot of people.
 

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I agree you cant go wrong with any Katadyn water filter. I have used them for years and they are by far the best imo.

The cheapest way to go for a home water filter would be to make your own bio sand water filter. They are simple to make and will filter enough water daily for alot of people.
Problem with biosand is water quality. They need relatively clean water to begin with and still can't make federally acceptable water. Everything I've read on them if that the best they can do is ~1NTU while federal standards is <.3NTU They also need a few weeks to form the layer of scum on top and need occasional cleaning, so figure on having two. They are an ecosystem and there are many things that can go wrong.

But if you prefer 3rd world standards for something as important as safe clean potable water give it a try. Just be sure you have a lab handy to test your water. Just looking at water is a poor test.

I work at a water filtration plant and from what I've seen a boisand filter doesn't get water much cleaner then my source (raw) water. The creek looks clean but is full of potentially lethal microbes. Like now, our source water is already ~1NTU. But it still flocs up with all sorts of suspended solids. We use a rapid sand filter and without the steps of floculation/ sedimentation our filters would soon clog up and not make potable water. Without disinfection we could never sell our product to the public. Health risks are too high. Using something like a slow sand filter without disinfection would be not much different then just pumping the creek into the piping system.

However there are affordable systems that work much better. Any ceramic filter will handle muddy water and still provide water cleaner then what comes out of a faucet. Filters like the Berkey, Monolithic or Aquarain will filter water to ~100 times cleaner then a boisand filter at about ~.015 NTU. Membrane filters like the Sawyer will go an even better job, though not as fast as a ceramic filter.
http://www.directive21.com/products.html
http://shop.monolithic.com/products/just-water-ceramic-drip-filter
http://www.aquarain.com/
http://www.sawyer.com/
 
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Buy a filter first.

That Katadyn Endurance looks like a winner. I have Katadyn Hikers, they're not nearly as fancy or have the same filtration capacity as the endurance but they're good for bug out bags.

For home filtration, I would much rather use my Berkey or a gravity fed system for convenience. Someone mentioned a biofilter, I would use that as a prefilter for potable water or use it directly as clothes washing water.

Do you have a swimming pool? There's your water storage. We scored an 18' above ground pool for about $150 used, it's in extremely good shape. That's about 5400gal of storage right there that has a dual purpose while things are normal. You don't have to explain a pool, but a cistern in your backyard might raise a few eyebrows. We also have a bunch of storage bins (~30gal). For us, that's around 300-400gal of intermediate storage containers that can be used with a trailer for fetching more water, as a shower stall, clothes washing bin, whatever you can think of.
 

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Buy a filter first.:thumb:



For home filtration, I would much rather use my Berkey or a gravity fed system for convenience. Someone mentioned a biofilter, I would use that as a prefilter for potable water or use it directly as clothes washing water.
The problem with trying to use the biosand as a prefilter is that they don't handle clay, silt or chemicals very well. Mud will kill the biofilm. The water has to be fairly clear to begin with. Even rapid sand filters don't handle mud very well.

Used pools are a great idea. put on a good cover that allows water through but not debris and you have a fairly good prefilter and settling tank.

Just be aware that until you get down to <1 micron (.01NTU) you'll still need to disinfect. The best for long term storage is calcium hypochlorite. Clorox bleach has a short half life.
 
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Problem with biosand is water quality. They need relatively clean water to begin with and still can't make federally acceptable water. Everything I've read on them if that the best they can do is ~1NTU while federal standards is <.3NTU They also need a few weeks to form the layer of scum on top and need occasional cleaning, so figure on having two. They are an ecosystem and there are many things that can go wrong.

But if you prefer 3rd world standards for something as important as safe clean potable water give it a try. Just be sure you have a lab handy to test your water.

However there are affordable systems that work much better. Any ceramic filter will handle muddy water and still provide water cleaner then what comes out of a faucet. Filters like the Berkey, Monolithic or Aquarain will filter water to ~100 times cleaner then a boisand filter at about ~.015 NTU. Membrane filters like the Sawyer will go an even better job, though not as fast as a ceramic filter.
http://www.directive21.com/products.html
http://shop.monolithic.com/products/just-water-ceramic-drip-filter
http://www.aquarain.com/
http://www.sawyer.com/
Thanx for the info i was reading they removed 99.9 percent of all the bad stuff. I may of read some bad info.
 

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The problem with trying to use the biosand as a prefilter is that they don't handle clay, silt or chemicals very well. Mud will kill the biofilm. The water has to be fairly clear to begin with. Even rapid sand filters don't handle mud very well.
Most of the water I ran through was water that had algae in it and a small amount of sediment. I was considering using it to refilter grey water from showering and clothes washing to use for irrigation. Any ideas? I'm trying to recycle as much as possible but don't want to harm the raised beds that I was planning on irrigating.
 

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Thanx for the info i was reading they removed 99.9 percent of all the bad stuff. I may of read some bad info.
It's not bad info, just misleading.

99.9% is 3 log removal. By federal standards that's not enough. That.1% is still enough to make you very sick, if not dead. The Saywer removes 7log (99.99999%). Most of the ceramic filters get it down below the 4log (99.99) federal requirement.
http://www.aquarain.com/testing.htm

Crypto is only 99.9% but they are fairly large organisms. Most filtration systems can achieve that. It's the bacteria and viruses that are a problem since many are very small. That why, except for the Sawyer (maybe some others) they all need post filter disinfection. Even then I'd still like to know that the last little bits are dead too, so I'd still disinfect.

I don't work in the Lab at work. The numbers we use to maintain good water is the NTU number. That's both inline and manual testing. Somehow, it correlates to the 6log removal requirements. Our lab does those tests and I've never heard of us violating out permit. It's impossible for the average person to afford this level of testing, NTU meters cost big money and need calibration too.

Lab testing for all the microbes just isn't possible on the individual house level. For now, while things aren't SHTF I always suggest folks, even with wells to have their water tested yearly by a local lab. Your county extension service should be able to provide you with a source.)

But if TSHTF that's all gone. Better to have a backup system that's been thoroughly tested and exceeds all standards for potable water. Ceramic filters with <8 microns will do that as long as disinfection is used.

Most of the water I ran through was water that had algae in it and a small amount of sediment. I was considering using it to refilter grey water from showering and clothes washing to use for irrigation. Any ideas? I'm trying to recycle as much as possible but don't want to harm the raised beds that I was planning on irrigating.
I'm not sure a biosand filter could handle grey water either. The soaps could have a drastic effect on the biofilm layer. It really is a sensitive ecosystem that doesn't seem well suited for but the cleanest water. From what I've read they have a hard time with heavy algea loads too. Try killing the algea with chlorine and the chlorine kills the biofilm.

There's another thread in the DIY subforum with lots of links and plenty to read. Some of it I found alarming and downright unsafe.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=145631

Even the test run by using rainwater seemed unsafe to me. In that test half the victims didn't even get a filter. But the rate of illness was about equal. So did the filter actually kill enough? I'd have thought they folks with 'real' filters wouldn't get as sick as those that got a fake filter.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091104091728.htm

The way a biosand filter works and how unstable they are is something that's hard to control perfectly. Reading some of the links it appears that science doesn't understand what happens fully. Maybe in the biolayer but down in the sand is more a mystery. To think that people without labs could consistently produce potable water from unknown sources seems highly unlikely.

It's not something I'd trust with the life of me and my family.

For grey water and using on your food supply I'd think it might work, or might not. The soaps could kill the biolayer. I'd want at least a layer of activated carbon in there just to play it safe.

This link is what scared me;
Please, anyone wanting to use this method should read this and try and understand all that goes into getting this to work and how just small changes can have drastic effects of the filtered water.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/publications/ssf3.pdf

"Indeed, there is still a need for considerable research before interaction all these processes is fully understood."

" the smallest pores are 20 microns and unable to intercept colloidal particles 1 micron or less and bacteria up to 15 microns."

Believe me there are lots of bacteria that are smaller then 15 microns.

" Sudden changes in filtration rates tend to upset this equilibrium, resulting in deterioration of effluent quality "
"In a similar way the various bacterial populations are adapted to the type and amount of food supplied by the passing water, and sudden changes in raw water quality should be avoided."
"For satisfactory biological oxidation of organic matter, sufficient time should be allowed, enough oxygen must be available and the temperature of the water must not be allowed to fall to low."

Sounds highly technical and not something to experiment with to me.
That whole pdf should scare anyone away from thinking of just pouring water in the top and clean water coming out the bottom.
 
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Don't filter Grey Water

I was considering using it to refilter grey water from showering and clothes washing to use for irrigation. Any ideas? I'm trying to recycle as much as possible but don't want to harm the raised beds that I was planning on irrigating.
Unless I'm mistaken, "Grey" water is ideal for irrigation, filtering it would remove all of the things that make it good. Plants actually benefit from things like Phosphorous and the other "dirty" stuff you'd be filtering out.

Note: There is a big difference between Grey water and Black (i.e. toilet) water. In Asia, it has been a common practice for hundreds of years to use what they refer to as "Night Soil" (Chamber pots are still widespread in undeveloped countries). But it'd be better to compost that stuff and then only use it on decorative plants.
 

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There's no versus here. Get both! Simple as that. You can't store enough water for long term. So the filter is imperative. But you can also have situations where you might not be able to get to your source for a while to filter it, so having water stored is important too.

For the best deals on storage that I know of, look around locally for used IBC totes. That's those plastic tanks inside the metal cage that they use to transport liquids. Be sure that it held a food grade liquid because some are used to transport motor oil or chemicals.

Mine came from a factory that makes sandwiches for convenience stores. Many cities have a food factory of some sort. If they make fried foods, they probably get their cooking oil in IBC totes. Also check craigslist and the newspaper ads. They hit the market on and off, so keep an eye out. Another source might be materials resellers that specialize in reselling used shipping materials. Most cities have these also.

I got mine for $20 each, but prices usually run in the $75 range or so, give or take. They hold 275 gallons and can be stacked 3 high when full. They're about 4 foot square and stacked 2 high, they'll usually fit under most 8 foot ceilings. So if you could spare a 4 foot square in the corner of your garage or something, you could put 550 gallons in it.
 

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I just had a guy from Aurora. Ill offer to sell me some food grade 55 gallon drums. CLEAN!!! Too far for me but I have his contact info if anyone wants it.
 
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