Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am reading the book "Sometimes Only Horses To Eat" by Carl W. Haywood. It is about the legendary David Thompson, who founded the Saleesh House trading post in 1807 while working for Northwest Fur Company. I want to relate a journal entry Thompson made in September of 1811:

Sep 29, 1811:

"I now recur to what I have already noticed in the early part of last winter, (1810), when proceeding up the Athabaska River to cross the Mountains in my company of with...Men and four hunters, on one of the channels of the River we came to the track of a large animal, which measured 14 inches in lenth, by 8 inches in breadth by a tapeline. As the snow was about 6 inches in depth, the track was well defined, and we could see it for a full 100 yards from us, this animal was proceeding from north to south. We did not attempt to follow it, we had no time for it, and the hunters, eager as they are to follow and shoot every animal made no attempt to follow this beast, for what could our balls of our fowling guns do against such an animal?

Report from old times had made the head of the branches from this river, and the mountains in the vicinity the abode of one, or more, very large animals, to which I never appeared to give credence; for these report appeared to rise from the findness for the marvellous SO COMMON TO MANKIND; but the sight of the track of that large beast staggered me, and I often thought of it, yet could never bring myself to believe such an animal existed, but thought it might be the track of a monster bear.

On the 6th of October we camped in the passes of the mountains, and the hunters pointed out to me a low mountain apparrently close to us, and said that on top of that eminence, there was a lake of several miles around which has deep moss, with much coarse grass in places and rushes; that these animals fed there, they were sure from the great quantities of moss torn up, with grasses and rushes; the hunters agreed this animal was not carniverous, but feed on moss and vegetables. Yet they all agreed that not one of them have ever seen the animal. I told them that I thought curiosity alone ought to have prompted them to get site of this animal; they replied that they were curois enough to see one at a distance, but it might bring them so close that they could not get away. I had known these men for years, and could always depend on their word, they had no interest to decieve themselves or any other persons.....we hasten our march as much as possible."


Wow, what a fascinating journal entry made 200 years ago in the virgin territory of the Rocky Mountains by a very credible source. The "hunters" are native indians kept with the company to precure game for the party. Whatever this beast was, the hunters wanted nothing to do with it, and wouldn't even track it. These entry sent chills up my spine when I read it. It really makes one wonder what was, or is, out there in the wilds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Update:

I have been able to track down Carl Haywood and I have left a message on his answering machine. He is the author of "Sometimes Only Horses To Eat". For those interested in the mountain life this is a must have book. It is published by StoneyDale Press Publishing Company in Stevensville, MT. I will discuss this journal entry in his book with him and report back. I am simply fascinated with these fur trappers and the journals they kept. Should be an enlightening conversation.
 

·
Sam Adams was right....
Joined
·
9,381 Posts
wow... interesting entry... let us know what Mr. Haywood's response is...
 

·
Governmentally Challenged
Joined
·
390 Posts
Fascinating to say the least. That's a helluva paw-print in size. Imagine having the first sleep-watch out there that nite.

It's amazing to me what the pioneers and mountain men types went through and endured in settling America.

Makes a lot of us feel fat, lazy, and sissy-fied in comparison - to say the least.

Let us know if you talk to him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Nice read. Makes we want to grab that sasquatch place name pdf called, "In The Spirit Of Seatco".
I've been dying to read it.
Well here is an intresting tibit, the term sasquatch is an Salish indian word that means wild woodman. The Salish tribe is a tribe found in the area were Thompson established the 'saleesh house', he just mispelled the word "Salish", if fact the Saleesh house was named after the tribe.

I had considered bigfoot, but researching last night and today I am considering the possiblity of a giant ground sloth. These prehistoric beast were located in North America, but supposely became exinct just 10000 years ago. A cave in New Mexico was the scene of a piece of skin from one, that was carbon dated to just 5000 years ago. The skin contained hard little knobs under the fur that was a sort of armor against the sabor toothed tiger. Local indian legend said that the stone arrow heads on the local tribes could not penetrate, nor even effect the beast. Which seems to me to lend credence to the possibility of a left over ground sloth from ancient times. However, because of the substaincial experience of the company of men, it is hard to imagine that they would not have seen claw marks from either a "monster bear" or giant ground sloth, which brings us right back to the beginning. The author said there are similiar journal entries from early trappers in the area, so when I hear back from him, I will research those journals as well. I love this stuff.

For the record, this journal entry and story is located in the NW Montana area of Thompson Falls.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, I spoke with the author last nite for over an hour, he is a fascinating fella. We discussed this passage and the author agreed it was very out of character for David Thompson to have made this journal entry. He also told me that Thompson was required by the fur company to keep this journal, and had more to lose by putting it in, then he did to gain. The author had no question as to the authenticity of this entry, David Thompson and others definately knew something else was out there, and Thompson had referenced this critter on four separate occasions in his journals, as well as several other trappers of this era in this area.

I flat out asked Carl Haywood if he believed Thompsons journal entries were referencing the modern day BIGFOOT. He believed they were, but could not say whether or not he believed there was a bigfoot about today. Instead, he related to me a story that occured in the late 60's when he was working as a big game hunting guide and packer in some of the most remote lands in the nation.

He said on one day he was side hilling a mountain when he heard a thrashing about in some thick lodgepole. Thinking it was a bull elk thrashing his antlers about he snuck down to the thrashing sound. It soon became apparent that the sounds were not made by any animal he had ever heard. He was greeted by what he described as a completely rank smell, he quickly moved out of the area. Later that night he heard a call on a ridge, he described as that of similiar to a wounded bear. For three consectutive nights he heard this horrible call, saying it took 3 nights for this creature to move just 5-7 miles. He only heard the calls at night never in the day. He had not heard the calls ever before or since. A few years ago he was approached by a bigfoot researcher who played a audio tape of what has been suspected to be a bigfoot. He said the calls were exactly what he had heard all those years ago. The hair on the back of his neck rose up all over again.

Well, there you have it. I personally have never believed the bigfoot hype. I have no admit, after reading Thompsons journal entry, it gave me pause. The author and I agreed that these folks were the finest woodsman around, they were masters and had seen ever animal ever to roam the Rocky Mountain Region. I believe there was something out there, I don't know if it still is, and that is the same feeling shared by the author.
 

·
Survivus most anythingus
Joined
·
3,874 Posts
I think if people put the hype out of their mind and just consider that new species of animals are found every month in the world, it's entirely possible that "bigfoot," whatever it might be, actually exists. The problem is the nuts and charlatans trying to sell stuff about it. Clouds the water and brings in the naysayers who then condemn the possibility because of the lunatrons.
 

·
Wanderer
Joined
·
3,269 Posts
Sasquatch, yeti, whatever you call it.
The "experts" say it doesn't exist merely because no "proof" that is satisfactory to them has been presented.
However, they ignore two things: all the "evidence" that it exists, and the fact that there's no "proof" it doesn't exist.
I say why couldn't it exist? There are many things living in this world that we know nothing about.
 

·
Geronimo!
Joined
·
4,053 Posts
Funny you should mention this whole bigfoot thing ... but they cannot exist, else there would have been hide or hair found by now.

But I'd still like to be the first to find one to take a picture - although that would spoil things I guess. I just do not believe they are out there. No more than I believe in the Blair Witch or the Loch Ness Monster ... it's all legend. Not that something like it did not exist at one time, but it is all legend, or based upon legend.

Let's look at it this way. Where could the legend have come from ... and why, as with all legends, is it propagated in different forms but everywhere, all over the globe? Yeti, Big Foot, Sasquatch, the Abominal Snowman. Think about it.

It couldn't have been one of those.

So what could it have been, described in the journal?

I've practically slept in the same bed with giant sloths in central and south america. They stink like hell and they scream like a ticked-off woman who has had her feelings hurt. I mean they don't have anuses to speak of, well, they do but not really like ours, so a lot of that waste is excreted out of the poors of their body and there is this cyanobacteria and algae growing all over them ... they stink and are really really nasty creatures.

But I don't think it was a sloth either because even the giant sloths, which we must assume were really giant(er) than those living today, do not really care to eat the grass. They like the trees and leaves, etc. , so I doubt they would be doing much grazing.

So, what could it have been?

Did I miss it, or did he fail to mention more than one track or if the critter was two legged or four legged?

There is a reasonable explanation for what he saw.
 

·
Grand Poobah of Sarcasm
Joined
·
3,083 Posts
Thanks for a cool entry. I am scared witless by Bigfoot. TV shows from the 70's have scared me. So for that reason Bigfoot does not exist. Imagine me sitting here with my ears covered and eyes closed, humming loudly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Funny you should mention this whole bigfoot thing ... but they cannot exist, else there would have been hide or hair found by now.

But I'd still like to be the first to find one to take a picture - although that would spoil things I guess. I just do not believe they are out there. No more than I believe in the Blair Witch or the Loch Ness Monster ... it's all legend. Not that something like it did not exist at one time, but it is all legend, or based upon legend.

Let's look at it this way. Where could the legend have come from ... and why, as with all legends, is it propagated in different forms but everywhere, all over the globe? Yeti, Big Foot, Sasquatch, the Abominal Snowman. Think about it.

It couldn't have been one of those.

So what could it have been, described in the journal?

I've practically slept in the same bed with giant sloths in central and south america. They stink like hell and they scream like a ticked-off woman who has had her feelings hurt. I mean they don't have anuses to speak of, well, they do but not really like ours, so a lot of that waste is excreted out of the poors of their body and there is this cyanobacteria and algae growing all over them ... they stink and are really really nasty creatures.

But I don't think it was a sloth either because even the giant sloths, which we must assume were really giant(er) than those living today, do not really care to eat the grass. They like the trees and leaves, etc. , so I doubt they would be doing much grazing.

So, what could it have been?

Did I miss it, or did he fail to mention more than one track or if the critter was two legged or four legged?

There is a reasonable explanation for what he saw.
I considered the question of eating grass as well with regard to the Giant Sloth Theory, but then thought perhaps the grass was torn up not for eating, but for nesting. I have no doubt that Thompson and his party knew something was there. He had made 4 different journal entries regarding the matter, so had other trappers who had never even met or talked to each other, I believe that goes beyond mere coincidence. I have a hard time believing that it exists today. The areas Thompson and his men were in had barely seen a human of any kind for thousands of years, so I think in the early 1800's it was certainly possible that some strange creature lived there.

I don't see a hard nosed, seasoned, no nonsense partner in the NW Fur Co making journal entries simply to propogate local legend, it just doesn't make sense. Thompson appeared to be both in wonderment, and uneasiness over what he had discribed. I believe the man knew something was out there, he just couldn't figure out what it was. I have been in the very canyons and ridges Thompson was. I have never heard or seen anything out of the ordinary, but I can certainly see how an animal that wasn't intrested in being discovered by humans, could easily avoid such.

Another point of consideration is in the animals ability to reason. That is, an elk or deer will avoid humans, but does not necessarily take any special precautions to avoid humans entirely. Suppose, however, that an animal could reason a little bit, and figures any contact with humans could spell diasaster for that species. Deer and elk know humans only as a predator, whereas an animal with rudementary reasoning ability may consider humans as much more then a simple predatory threat. Consider too, that according to the journal entry the indian hunters had not ever seen this creature either, so it seems that it was successful in human avoidance even with skilled indian hunters and had established a sort of human avoidance unseen in that day or in our day.

Frankly, I have been in areas where something that did not want to be found, would not be found. I also think most of the alleged "bigfoot" hunters are not qualified to do the job. They go into the woods with about 6-10 people, cameras, videos etc. I have never seen any of them address the wind direction or try to mask their scent from animals, yet it is the primary mode of danger detection from most big game species. Anybody who has spent time in the woods knows that going solo for long streches at a time, with minumal gear gets you into animals. True, we havn't found any bones of the critters, but I have hunted the back country several weeks a year for the last 17 years, and I have found one bear skull and never a mountain lion skull.

Do I believe in Bigfoot? I think there once was something unexplainable leaving in the USA. I think there is a possibilty, but if you made me pick, I would say I am skeptical, but open to the possibilty, albeit faint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,804 Posts
I knew a Native American man who was a hunter for his tribe: that is, he hunted game for the elders of the tribe and was extremely skilled. He also had an experience with an unknown Bigfoot-type and will not go back into that area. (Northcentral Idaho). He smelled it first and then saw it, and it was no kind of animal he'd ever seen before. He spoke reluctantly about it and admitted that he'd never been as scared of anything in his life as he was then, and I could feel the fear even as he told it.

I can see just from having been in the outskirts of that area that a supposedly extinct creature could hide forever in those forests. Once you've been there and have seen the thickness of the forest where very few go, you could readily believe it. There are millions of acres of true wilderness far from any road or beyond the capability of ATVs to penetrate. It's safe to say that no one has ever been in most of those areas.
 

·
Geronimo!
Joined
·
4,053 Posts
Perhaps it is time for a small contingent of skilled woodsmen to head to those millions of acres of unexplored sasquatch hang-out and do some real down-wind observing over a given period of time?

Say two or three or four dedicated woodsmen on a trek ... for two or three months, trying to cross paths with the mythical creatures in the northwest territory?
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top