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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
many have probably seen this but i found i quite interesting and makes me want an AK now :D:

http://www.ak-47.us/223_vs_762x39.php

Think about it, how often are you going to need to shoot someone at 500 yards? Sure its nice to know you can but is it worth that extra $1000? Personaly i'm reaching for my bolt action if i need to engage at over 100 yards or maby even 75 yards, depinding on the suroundings.
Statistics show that near all of the shots taken by police snipers are at 70-75yards, so why should i wast money on a AR-15 that is overpriced and under powered for such a shot? Sure the AR will shoot and has been used to kill at 500 yards but is is realistic to rely on such a platform as such a rifle?

Why not carry an AK-47 and a nice bolt action? Or even an sks and a smaller scout rifle?
 

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Nothing wrong with the AK, they're very reliable and will get the job done.

The AK is a great choice for anyone on a budget. They will function reliably under the worst conditions and without routine cleaning for thousands of rounds, an AR will never do that.
 

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Does anyone here have an AK that will group under 2 inches at 100 yards? None of mine do even with careful handloads although they all can shoot minute of bad guy at 200 yards.

Nothing wrong with the AK, they're very reliable and will get the job done.

The AK is a great choice for anyone on a budget. They will function reliably under the worst conditions and without routine cleaning for thousands of rounds, an AR will never do that.
That they do, do very well!!!
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #4
That brings me to another point. after its all said and done i can get a very nice ak for under 500.

I recently found a full upper for 300 though...i'm verry tempted...

IF only ammo prices would go way down. I figure if and when things settle down over seas, the surplus will drop prices.

And is not that i have anything aganst the AR, other than the things i'v already stated...the craps just so expinsive...and for SHTF why pay that much for somthing that will cease to function when it gets a little dirt on it.
 

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many have probably seen this but i found i quite interesting and makes me want an AK now :D:

http://www.ak-47.us/223_vs_762x39.php

Think about it, how often are you going to need to shoot someone at 500 yards? Sure its nice to know you can but is it worth that extra $1000? Personaly i'm reaching for my bolt action if i need to engage at over 100 yards or maby even 75 yards, depinding on the suroundings.
Statistics show that near all of the shots taken by police snipers are at 70-75yards, so why should i wast money on a AR-15 that is overpriced and under powered for such a shot? Sure the AR will shoot and has been used to kill at 500 yards but is is realistic to rely on such a platform as such a rifle?

Why not carry an AK-47 and a nice bolt action? Or even an sks and a smaller scout rifle?
Why have a rifle that can shoot to 500 yards? For when it comes to gunfighting 50/50 odds are abosoultly unacceptable. You don't EVER fight the other guys fight! You use every advantange at you desposial even if it's a little redundent at the time. I not championing the the .223 and the M-16. It think a compact 7.62 NATO MBR like the M-14 CQB Carbine or the FN-FAL 16 inch Carbine even with the short barrel 600 yard shots are still possiable. And like a boxer you use reach advantage every time!


Rifleman 336
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #6
I understand that...believe me, i do. lol but the 5.56 is way too small to be an effective round at thoughs distances. i have alot of experience with it, i know its advantage and capabilities. i qualified With a 220 in the Marines...thats Expert. I'm very well aware or the advantage of a 500 yard shot but like i've stated numorous times...the 5.56 round was not designed to be a long range shooter.

And like you said, why take a chance of missing when, at that distance, you have PLEANTY of time to get to another rifle, aim it and be sure that its going to be spot on.

I have kind of a mental range layout of everything i look at, if its with in 100 yards then the SKS or ak is staying in my hands. If it more than 100 yards, i'm taking cover if i'm inder fire and moving into posistion with a scoped bolt gun.

I didnt say why have a rifle capable of a distance shot, i said how often are you going to need to take a shot at 500 yard...meaning why do so many people insist on relying on there AR-15 as "Sniper Rifle"? Quite frankly i'd be afrade of just pissing the person off when the bullet hits them, expecialy in shtf where theres going to be alot of ppl around.

I just want to here peopls reasoning on why they chose the AR-15 as the end all gun of choice?
 

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Does anyone here have an AK that will group under 2 inches at 100 yards? None of mine do even with careful handloads although they all can shoot minute of bad guy at 200 yards.



That they do, do very well!!!
My Yugo SKS will do about 1 1/4" at a hundred,with East German surplus ball,of all things.Damn thing loves it.Thats using a Trophy Dot 1x32 sight.

A decent milled receiver AK should do 2" pretty easily,with decent ammo.
Usually,its the lack of a decent optic and trigger that degrades the AK in accuracy.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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I swear this thread has been incarnated several dozen times lol
 

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Out here, distance is king.
As my location mentions, I'm on the prairie, surrounded by open ag fields.
My closes defenseable distance is to the road which is 300yds.
To the south, it's over 1000yds.
West, it's further than my optics will be of any use.
I have an AR, a Colt that I've had for over 25 yrs. It's scoped with a Colt distance compensator scope. With the handloads the 68gr Hornady Match bullets thru the 1:7 twist barrel are as accurate as I can hope for. It's neck and neck with my .270 for printing close groups. The 60gr Hornady V-Max ballistic tips are also very accurate.
With factory ammo (mostly 55gr) it does not groups as well. I'll stay with the heavier, handloaded bullets.
As far as dirt being an issue, I have never experienced any, and it gets quite dusty out here.
The AK's are fine weapons, but I'll stay with the AR, it's what I know best.
Practice with what you got, is the best confidence builder.
And in a firefight, only hits count.:thumb:
 

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I have to agree with you Reality Czech, distance is king. I too have a Colt AR, and it has never failed me. I have been using modified factory loads, and at 100 yds can hold a 1.5" group with open sites.
 

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American fearmaker
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Get an M-4 variant that shoots the 7.62 X 39 ammo. Ergonomics of an AR/M-4 and the bigger, better bullet of the AK. It's a win-win situation. A little more costly than an AK but probably worth it.
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Get an M-4 variant that shoots the 7.62 X 39 ammo. Ergonomics of an AR/M-4 and the bigger, better bullet of the AK. It's a win-win situation. A little more costly than an AK but probably worth it.
It sucks, it jams more than any gun i'v shot. And theres only 5 round mags for it.

Idk, maby i just need to give the AR another chance. Sounds like plenty of people are happy, but paper is alot different than flesh...a pelet gun will go through paper...

At the price that some Ar's are going for now, I might as well save another 200 and get that instead of the AK,

I shot higher during practice, but the guy next to me hit my target twice...
 

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My Yugo SKS will do about 1 1/4" at a hundred,with East German surplus ball,of all things.Damn thing loves it.Thats using a Trophy Dot 1x32 sight.

A decent milled receiver AK should do 2" pretty easily,with decent ammo.
Usually,its the lack of a decent optic and trigger that degrades the AK in accuracy.
Same here.. LOVE my Yugo and LOVE the 7.62X39.. This HAS to be the most under rated combat gun available. It shoots as well as an AK and as reliably, with REALLY cheap Wolf ammo..

As far as comparing the 7.62X39 and the .223, I'd prefer the 7.62.. I think that 9 out of 10 people who think they will need to shoot a target at 500 yards or more would never even need to.

In the woods, in my area, I'm perfectly happy with my SKS or other similar caliber rifle *COUGH*
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Same here.. LOVE my Yugo and LOVE the 7.62X39.. This HAS to be the most under rated combat gun available. It shoots as well as an AK and as reliably, with REALLY cheap Wolf ammo..

As far as comparing the 7.62X39 and the .223, I'd prefer the 7.62.. I think that 9 out of 10 people who think they will need to shoot a target at 500 yards or more would never even need to.

In the woods, in my area, I'm perfectly happy with my SKS or other similar caliber rifle *COUGH*

that it is. unless your a very active shooter and practice routinly, then a 500 yard shot is going to be a crap shoot at best.

7.62x39 will penetrate most things that people will be hiding behind and will glide right through brush. The only problem i have with it is that its limited on distance. thats why I'd suggested, in another post, to have a bolt gun in a larger cal.

After seeing how the military realy works, its no wonder why they like the 5.56. but in SHTF, if i have to kill someone i want them to drop right there. I also might need to shoot through heavy brush or vehicles. 5.56 wont do alot of that stuff. Point i'm trying to make is that at even 200 yards you have plenty of time to take cover and get to another gun that is much better for a long distance shot.
 

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Depends where you are. Texas has many different types of terrain, and the distance vs. power argument ****s whether you are in the Texas Hill country, the plains, or anywhere else. I bought a cheap WASR AK that I am customizing to fit me and my needs.

As a deer hunter, I use the classic Winchester 94 Ranger in 30-30 which gets great accuracy (or I'm just that good of a shot) for as long as I've ever shot without a scope. I've never needed a long shot. Should I ever, I might just borrow my dad's Remington 700 in .270.

For all intents and purposes, my 94 and AK serve me well. I can't think of a time I might need an uber accurate scoped rifle.
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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Discussion Starter #19
Well, here in KS its plains with hils and trees, but when shtf the goal is to survive and stay away from people. I dont believe i'll need to shoot someone at a distance greater than 200 yards, unless i'm scouting and se that there a threat and need to take out them out. even then i'm getting within 200 yards.

Scout snipers are purly offensive, in a shtf situation you should be defensive.

A good perimiter is vital to protecting yourself but its hard to justify killing someone at even 100 yards in self defence.
 

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One thing though that you want to consider the add weight and bulk of carrying that second weapon when a short (16")M-14 EBR. One can also shoot 110gr or 125gr ammo to shave off some weight if thats a concern. The only second weapon I would consider is a pistol or a really light Sub gun like the Kel Tecs Sub 2000 to back up a bolt action only sniper set up. for the close in combat.



Rifleman 336
 
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