Survivalist Forum banner

101 - 120 of 156 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
680 Posts
This post is a preprint of an article to be published in Vaccine entitled “Improving Vaccine Policy Making: A Dose of Reality.” The authors are Dorit Rubinstein Reiss, Ph.D., Professor of Law at the University of California Hastings College of the Law (San Francisco, CA), and Paul A. Offit, MD, Professor of Pediatrics, Division of Infectious Disease, The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, The Perelman School at the University of Pennsylvania.

This article’s full citation is:

Reiss DR, Offit PA. Improving Vaccine Policy Making: A Dose of Reality. Vaccine. 2020 February 5. doi: 10.1016/j.vaccine.2020.01.036.

This preprint (see Note 1) is being published here, with permission from Professors Reiss and Offit, as a public service because it is an important part of the discussion on vaccine policy.

Direct link to the article Preprint.

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/ske...y-making-dose-reality-reiss-offit/#more-15264

RR
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
RR, it's clear that those with concerns or worries get hijacked and involuntarily drafted by the antivax fanatics to pad their numbers.

The antivax types do not want any real debate or answers and use the natural failure rate of all medications as argument propaganda.

No drug is 100% safe in all situations, but antivax types insist that be the first step in a long list of grievances to be settled. It's a tactic aimed to get the scientific opposition to fail. If vaccines were somehow made 100% safe their list of demands would lengthen yet again. The only true goal is avoid having to get vaccinated.

Unreasonable demands and martyrdom rhetoric is page one in their playbook. Page two is threats of every variety and stripe.

The Constitution didn't address this degree of sophistication. Guns, the press, religion, speech, judicial law were addressed because those were around in some form or fashion that allowed extrapolation. Even the internet can be extrapolated from earlier cultural norms. But things like WMDs, cloning, and many aspects of modern biology simply have no useful earlier standard to work out from.

So it seems clear that modern laws have to be made without looking to the past to guide us. Modern modes of travel and contagion combine to demand an effective solution.

We need to make the law completely ignore requested exemptions for anything other than medical reasons. This is necessary because we need the herd immunity breathing room precisely for the valid medical reasons. As the bugs evolve we may need a full 10% medical exception rate in the future.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Jack Swilling

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,876 Posts
i assume a lot of the anti vac crowd will be in line to get the corona vaccine. I can't imagine anyone with their head so far up their backside that they let their children die. I remember doctors at work tell me of their reaction to the early swine flu vaccines. Bottom line was they lived to tell about them. And these were people who were on the line in hospitals working with patients. Nothing is 100% but your chances without the vaccine are near 0. Maybe this epidemic will be a wake up call?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
There will always be some that resist.

They exploit herd immunity to keep themselves safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jack Swilling

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,876 Posts
I remember lining in the 60's for small pox vaccinations. We even were taken out of school by the health dept for vaccinations. Small pox is now gone. same for polio. With luck the nation will get on board for this virus when the vaccine is available. the anti vaccination crowd can kick rocks. time to joint together for the good of the nation
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
Immune Amnesia.

Ever heard of it? It seems if you contract measles you body seems to "forget" what it is already immune against in other diseases.

So the idiot who doesn't vaccinate for measles opens the door for a disease the person is supposedly immune from to come roaring back.

We all know that it isn't a matter of personal choice either. Parents decide for their kids.

Harvard Medical School did an article on the phenomenon: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/inside-immune-amnesia
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
Unweaving the tangled webs that deniers will tell you do not exist.

Good find, Zeke.

RR
Yup, if a child of an antivaxxer gets the measles it's like potentially letting your kid get a temporary case of AIDS.

The natural immunity door busts wide open and the child is effectively a Bubble Baby risk.

I hope those antivaxxers are proud of themselves keeping Junior away from his measles vaccine in the midst of a global pandemic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,876 Posts
vaccinations are required in many school districts. Some do not allow the "religious" exception. I wonder how this will play out this fall if a coronal vaccine is completed by then? My hope is that it is mandatory for all children and first responders.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
vaccinations are required in many school districts. Some do not allow the "religious" exception. I wonder how this will play out this fall if a coronal vaccine is completed by then? My hope is that it is mandatory for all children and first responders.
It will be mandatory for health care workers. No hospital, doctor office, or medical outfit will hire antivaxxers. You can't get your state license or cert without an updated shot record. They won't even let you do your training rotations. Anyone who is calling themselves a medical worker who says they are an antivaxxer is either an age related retiree or a liar or has a medical exemption.

I've determined the best solution to antivaxxers is making a shot record mandatory to meet with a health professional. That people have bonafide medical exemptions and have jobs mean antivaxxers put them at risk. No healthcare worker with a medical exemption should be forced to be in the vicinity of antivaxxers or the surfaces they touched recently. That would be a "hostile workplace" infringement.

Let's treat these crazies like they deserve. They want to hate on the medical community?

Fine, they never have to deal with the medical community ever again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
If your against vaccines and don't get them then aren't you just relying on other people to get them so you or your kids don't get sick?

I wonder if anybody anti-vaccine will change their opinion if a covid-19 vaccine is developed. Will you roll the dice and hope everybody else will get it to prevent yourself and your family from getting sick?

I could be wrong. Just my opinion. Honestly never met anybody that was anti-vaccine.

(posted in both for and against..mods not sure where this one goes)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
30,720 Posts
Honestly never met anybody that was anti-vaccine.
It's like Fight Club or prepping. No one talks in public.

Fight Club was a movie. Prepping is protective OpSec.

Antivax are running from the scorn of their neighbors because they are secretly stealing protection of the herd that they swear doesn't exist.

It's deliberate and predatory. It might not be against the law, but it is criminal minded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
It's deliberate and predatory. It might not be against the law, but it is criminal minded.
Some people can't take a vaccine because of health reasons and others religious. The religion angle is hard to defend.


If your going to reap the benefits of a modern society and take place in its economic structure and healthcare, law and order, technology etc then I believe it's your duty to follow science as well and vaccinate. We are a linked society if we want to admit it or not. If you want to cut yourself off from the world (such as the amish with insular society) then you wouldn't have the same level of responsibility.

Interesting stuff
 

·
?
Joined
·
2,211 Posts
...
It's the purposefully resistant modern American groups that are going to need more than information/education. Those types need the next level of coercion. Lock them out of schools, medical facilities, elderly nursing units, and child day care until they show compliance. They have lost the right to be around high risk populations with their deliberate choices. At some point they will need those facilities and have their come to Jesus moments.

If they insist on their "freedom" then let them take the responsibility that comes with it. The medically vulnerable people deserve the protection of keeping these antivaxxers away from them. They should not be forced to risk contagion so these paranoid types can champion their fears.

Emphasis mine


Curious as to where the obese fit into this level of coercion? They're detrimental to herd immunity given the findings of multiple studies cited in this literature review: Obesity is a serious global problem, and the suboptimal vaccine-induced immune responses observed in the obese population cannot be ignored. While we continue to seek strategies that reduce diet-induced obesity, the obese population remains at higher risk for vaccine-preventable illnesses.

Obesity in this literature review showing reduced efficacy of vaccines is defined as a 30 or higher BMI which is 170 lbs for the average 5'3" tall American woman or 200 lbs for the average 5'9" American man. Over 40% of American adults have a BMI of 30 or over.

I had no idea there was an obesity/vaccine efficacy issue until I read an article several days ago re obesity as a risk factor for Covid-19 that mentioned it. Both poor outcomes are likely at least partly related to elevated inflammatory biomarkers in the obese.
 
101 - 120 of 156 Posts
Top