[jfountain2]

This thread is for those wanting to show why vaccines are NOT good.

ANY POSTING OF ARGUMENTS FOR VACCINES WILL BE REMOVED AND NOT NICELY.

I’m doing a thread for each side hoping to stop the argument and allow people to read actual facts in threads without a ****ing contest so everyone can make their own decision.

 

[ImStillHere]

This will be interesting, to see which side has better content..... I will duplicate this on the other thread so I dont skew the page count.....

 

[NickB]

Im waiting for the anti vaxxers to post anything that will change my mind...

 

[Old fart]

Anecdotal support against...

Every time I get a flu shot, I end up with a fever over 104 and other nasty stuff. And then I'm really, really sick for months and months off and on. "Suspected adverse reactions" have been documented. Multiple docs have advised me not to get them anymore, so no thank you.

I had a similar reaction from the pneumonia shot, so my former PCP said no to the other one and wrote it in my records, so can't get it from the VA, even if I wanted it.

Funny because I've never had problems with the older vaccines (other than the flu, which I stopped getting in 1976, and then was forced to take it by the military in 1979 to 1980).

 

[Aerindel]

Does it count if I am not specifically against vaccines, but I absolutely adamantly against any mandatory or punitive measures to force people to take them?

For me its not a biology argument, it's a human rights argument. On pare with gun rights etc. As much as people like to talk about their right to safety, no such right exists. You have no right not to get sick. You have no right not to be shot. You can isolate yourself form sick people, and you can defend yourself if attacked but you can't change legislate away other peoples rights just to make yourself feel safer. Well, you can, but that makes you the bad guy.

Pro-vaxxers, regardless of their 'rightness' when it comes to biology, are still totalitarians of the worst sort. And that is my argument. I may vaccinate myself, but I will fight to the death for YOUR right not to be vaccinated.

That is my position. Against the kind of technocratic totalitarian liberalism that most people on this site are terrified of but which some don't see connected to mandatory vaccination.

As for personal experience with vaccination. Look up the PROVEN vaccination caused cancer rate in cats. This happened to one of my mothers cats and she went into bankruptcy trying unsuccessfully to save it. This was not a theory but a well known side effect. She was even compensated, partially, by the vaccine company, in exchange for her silence on the issue. This was a real incident, this is really how they operate, and our government, the liberal totalitarian part of it, is the pharmacies biggest cheerleader. Think about that.

 

[Justme11]

Props to the mods for trying this idea out to prevent the back and forth bickering that
has in the past made such threads a mess.

The attack on the rights of Americans has been ongoing for the last 18 years, and topics like this tend to be used as justification to remove freedom of speech, freedom of the press and to push authority of the State vs the Individual.

The Press as we now know, is no longer the voice of truth or of the people, but simply the mouthpiece of the Deep State. So the function of the free press has migrated to the internet, and has given everyone a voice on Youtube and thought forums such as this. (but this is under attack).

The Deep State either causes events to happen or capitalizes on them, to exaggerate the event on the sanctioned news, to generate a public outcry or at least to allow continued removal of citizen rights.

We are being invaded by illegals, who carry many diseases. Then when disease outbreaks occur, it is blamed on US citizens' right to decide upon what vaccinations they receive, instead of on the millions of invaders who have not been health screened.

When gun violence outbreaks occur, they blame it on our right to keep and bear arms and not on the millions of invaders who have no respect for our laws.

Now regarding vaccines,
Personal Experience:

I was vaccinated for all the normal childhood maladies.
Ended up catching most of them anyway. measles, mumps, etc.

When I was young, they did not even encourage getting flu vaccines. That was for the elderly they said. When they started recommending the flu shot I started getting it annually. Including the swine flu when young, and again more recently.

I would get the flu very bad every year I got the shot. End of December I would get the flu typically and be sick as a dog for at least a week, then a month long deep cough.

I finally decided to skip the flu shot one year and didn't get sick! Well, it has been several years now and no more flu!

My theory on number of immunizations:
Most of the arguments I hear, talk about the mercury in the shots and autism. Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) in which a person’s own immune system damages their nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. I doubt mercury is the culprit, but rather the overstimulation of the immune system, by getting so many different vaccines.

I liken the immune system to a pet guard dog.
Practice aggression drills with the dog a little makes him a great guard dog. Push it too far though and that same dog will kill you when provoked in the slightest.

The number of autoimmune disorders has grown to epic proportions since the vaccine programs have progressed from getting a handful of needle jabs in the 60's, to the near 100 injections that has become today's regimen.

Allergies to peanut butter, etc were unheard of when I was a kid. Now they eliminate peanuts from planes because at least one passenger will likely have this allergy. A very high percentage of coworker's kids have had severe allergy problems.

And the explosion in cases of diabetes, an autoimmune disorder where the body destroys the insulin producing cells.

And RA arthritis. And a list of dozens of other diseases that I think may be connected with the mass vaccination programs.

I don't see anyone conducting long term statistical analysis of vaccination programs vs these hard to correlate long term disastrous consequences, if indeed they are correlated, (and I think they are).

The amount of suffering, death, and medical care costs of these autoimmune disorders far outweighs the benefits of most vaccination programs. Would I still want to get smallpox and polio vaccines? for me, the answer is yes.
But do I want to get annual flu shots for the rest of my life? the answer is no. Especially when my personal experience has been as I described above.

List of autoimmune diseases:
Addison disease
Antiphospholipid Syndrome
Autoimmune Hepatitis
Celiac disease
Graves disease
Guillain-Barre Syndrome
Hashimoto Thyroiditis
Inflammatory Bowel disease
Multiple Sclerosis
Myasthenia Gravis
Pernicious Anemia
Primary Biliary Cirrhosis
Sclerosing Cholangitis (see Autoimmune-associated Liver Diseases)
Reactive Arthritis/Reiter Syndrome
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis
Sarcoidosis
Scleroderma
Sjögren Syndrome
Systemic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE)
Type 1 Diabetes Mellitus
Vasculitis

 

[JenFred]

We're not totally anti-vaxx, but we do choose the vaccinations our kids get. One day old babies don't need hep-a shots. My kids don't get flu shots or chicken pox shots (though they will get the chic pox vaccine eventually, as they've hit teen yrs without getting the pox, and chic pox as an adult is more dangerous than as a kid). We will NOT be inoculating our kids with gardisil. Nope, no way.

I also am pretty much against the vaccines carrying fetal cells....there's a list of limited shots available without those cells....sigh. The Catholic Church keeps up with which vaccines by which companies do not have the cells lines. I'm afraid we'll soon not have any vaccines without using disposed babies' cells. .....if you search for when autism rates exploded....it correlates with the usage of fetal cell lines in vaccines.

We've had friends whose kiddos have had extreme reactions to their shots....and who are now anti vaxx. I understand their side. I also believe it is OUR choice, as parents, as to what should or should not be done to our children, and so I am against mandatory vaccinations. I don't think all vaccinations are wrong, but I disagree with how many and how soon and how often they are given to babies.

 

[JenFred]

Dh used to have to get the flu shot every yr for work. It was given usually a couple days before a 4 day weekend.....and guess what....most people were sick over that long weekend. My dh got horribly sick every yr. And after leaving that job, he spent about 4-5 yrs without needing to get the flu shot....he was healthy and well those yrs! The first yr he had to get it again, *I* got the flu, and then pneumonia. I always *love* when health care workers say no one will get sick from it.

 

[Justme11]

One analysis technique is to examine the extreme boundary condition.

So let's assume we are hundreds of years into the future. And another 300 diseases have been identified and have vaccines developed. Does anyone seriously think you can inject that much immune system irritant into a human body without causing harm?

I think there is a number of vaccines below which, are statistically safe enough to be warranted. Then a grey area representing the next batch,and finally the extreme risk level of injecting hundreds of vaccines into a body.

So where is Mere Man? Isn't he the star of this here rodeo?

 

[FalconsBravesHawks]

One analysis technique is to examine the extreme boundary condition.

So let's assume we are hundreds of years into the future. And another 300 diseases have been identified and have vaccines developed. Does anyone seriously think you can inject that much immune system irritant into a human body without causing harm?

I think there is a number of vaccines below which, are statistically safe enough to be warranted. Then a grey area representing the next batch,and finally the extreme risk level of injecting hundreds of vaccines into a body.

So where is Mere Man? Isn't he the star of this here rodeo?

that is one of the better "thoughts" for your side that I have heard. I'm not for every single vacs they recommend, but the majority we are. My kids do NOT need the Ethiopian kissing bug vaccine (made up), but the older more common ones they do. Maybe what you said IS the issue with vaccines...too many, too soon, many not necessary. Not any particular one causes an issue, but the amount is what does something to the body. That's why they can never pin them down on any particular shot, although thermosol is definitely not good.

 

[sonya1]

I think a lot of modern type diseases like Autism, autoimmune diseases, allergies of any kind are directly caused by children not being exposed to "germs" of any kind. Vaccinations against minor childhood diseases like measles and mumps are part of that. I do believe some vaccines are important , like those against diseases that will kill you or injure you for life ( small pox, or polio for example) but measles or chicken pox don't usually kill anyone.
I also think kids should only get an antibiotic as a very last resort, not for any little bit of ear ache , cough or sore throat.
Last, kids need to go out and play in the dirt, eat food that fell on a dirty floor, and have the dog lick their face or whatever. They need to not have their hands wiped every time they go out, and they need to not sit in the house in front of a screen all day.
If we ever get hit by some real epidemic , people in places like India will have a better chance of surviving it than people here because of that. If your immune system never needs to fight anything off, when it gets to exposed to something really bad, it won't know what to do

 

[Madoc]

I consider this posting to be in support of antivaccine views; because vaccines are not 100% safe nor 100% effective under all circumstances.

For informed consumers - and for people who have decided not to be consumers - of vaccines, the reasons against vaccines deserve to be publicized

 

[Eddie_T]

The following from; https://www.cbsnews.com/news/leading-dr-vaccines-autism-worth-study/

CBS News has learned the government has paid more than 1,300 brain injury claims in vaccine court since 1988, but is not studying those cases or tracking how many of them resulted in autism.

The branch of the government that handles vaccine court told CBS News: "Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries…may ultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not track cases on this basis."

 

[Justme11]

In the last few years, we have also seen the emergence of this mysterious polio-like disease.

Acute Flaccid Myelitus.

Not a virus, but a virus can trigger it.

Polio, but not polio.

Clearly this is another autoimmune disorder. Any type virus can trigger it. It is the reaction of an immune system that has been "over-trained" in my opinion. It is the guard dog that you have beaten daily to make it mean, when it has reached the breaking point.

They are chasing the root cause looking for some transmissible pathogen. There isn't one. It is the response of an over stimulated immune system.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-10-cdc-mysterious-disease-paralyzing-children.html

 

[Cranberry]

I've personally, from what I've read, come to believe that vaccines had little to do with ridding the west of deadly infectious diseases of the past. Historically it seems pretty straight forward. There were great improvements with sanitation and improvements with food supplies along with better understanding of food deficiency diseases hurting immunity such as scurvy. The result was a large decrease in disease incidence. Vaccines later came onto the scene. Vaccines get the credit though. I imagine that is due to vaccines making money. There hasn't been a big group to advocate for cleaner and safe food to prevent disease historically.

Overall I've found learning that information relieving. There is great deal of fear with health care and diseases. If everything went to hell with our modern medical system, but our food supply was good, water clean, and the area decently sanitary, major deadly diseases of the past shouldn't come back. Historically at least this is what the records show.

There was a large test of this in the past also with the large UK city of Leicester. In the 19th century most citizens of Leicester refused vaccinations. To many side effects were happening from the vaccines and the people revolted. News paper journalists began to speculate that the UK city was going to cause a large disease outbreak. That didn't happen. Due to Leicester improving their sanitation systems and improved food supply, for 60 years of nearly everyone refusing vaccines Leicester had one of the lower reported incidences of disease outbreaks in the UK.

What makes me scratch my head has to do with the many prescription drugs that hurt and weaken people's immune system. One would think that people that are extremely pro vaccine and have a great fear of disease outbreaks would be up in arms against these medications being used. These are some of the most commonly prescribed drugs also.

I guess the other item that has me wondering is it is often reported that vaccines do not provide life long immunity. As a result some write that large portions of the population 50, 60 maybe 70% do not have vaccine created immunity to many disease. Yet despite this there haven't been large disease outbreaks. That is thought to be due to ones natural immune system being strong. Once again that is another bit that gives me relief from the fear of disease outbreaks.

 

[SurvivalOfTheFit]

Here is a great video about the public being mislead by big pharma and the MSM...

 

[NCalHippie]

My main objection to vaccines is that they interrupt the natural process of survival of the fittest. We are making the human race more vulnerable to total extinction with every life saving or extending procedure. The world population would be more manageable without saving every human and letting them propagate.

 

[Mere_Man]

My main objection to vaccines is that they interrupt the natural process of survival of the fittest. We are making the human race more vulnerable to total extinction with every life saving or extending procedure. The world population would be more manageable without saving every human and letting them propagate.

So you're saying that vaccines work?

 

[Justme11]

So you're saying that vaccines work?

So what's the deal? You created like 50 vaccine threads and pressed every one to the limits of human endurance.

Now you have been given a platform to convey your message without interruptions and you are stricken mute as an Aldebaran shell-mouth?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Aldebaran_shellmouth

 

[Aerindel]

Here is an example of just how evil the pro-vaxxers are:

Its a long story but the general idea is a case of a pro-vaxxer trying to organize a fake anti-vaccine rally to make anti-vaxxers look bad.


“I’m not a journalist,” he wrote. “But my two cents.....if you’ve got a credible story that makes anti-vaxxers look like *******s you should run with it. I have nothing to do with this, but it seems like you have a chance to make people laugh at conspiracy theorists, which is the only way to neutralize them.”

https://gizmodo.com/this-was-supposed-to-be-a-story-about-a-bizarre-anti-va-1833941139

This is part of why it really doesn't matter if vaccines are good or bad....the people who are telling you to submit to your betters and get them are bad, the worst sort of people there are. Make you own decisions but no matter what, don't do it just because someone told you too.