US an Taliban sign peace treaty
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I'm not a vet, but if we aren't going to flatten the Taliban completely in an asymmetric war that strikes fear into the misshapen hearts of goat rapists everywhere, then we need to GTFO. The military exists to kill people and break things, not to turn a terrorist nation with an average IQ of 85 into a good citizen on the world stage. It just doesn't work.
That may well be but Afghanistan isn't the Middle East.
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1,258 Posts
They fought the Russians to a standstill.Hill folks with old rifles and flip flops having no air force or navy fights a TRILLION dollar military to a stand still. No BUDS, no Ranger school, just OJT.
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And the British before them!
All using ancient bolt rifles and AK47s and IEDs (plus some weapons picked up along the way).
Hmmm! I seem to remember ANOTHER army like this! Only in the JUNGLES halfway around the world!
THEY fought the Dutch to a standstill.
Then the French.
Then the United States.
AGAIN, using old small arms and some other stuff picked up along the way plus homemade things (punji pits, swing stakes, and other "fun" things).
MAYBE the "advanced nations" need to STOP and LEARN a few things on how to fight an insurgent war!
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I'm pretty sure the Taliban do not have ROEs to follow.
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1,492 Posts
It will happen, don't worry.
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4,078 Posts
As a veteran, we need to leave that place. We will never make them think like us, pray like us, act like us, or be like us. Bush had this idea that he could take the Middle East and make them all little democratic republics, but the Afghanistan people in particular have no such desire to adopt our ways. The sooner we leave the place the better.
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2,184 Posts
Well, after serving in that ****hole, I think its safe for me to say, in all due modesty, that my solution is equal to the problem at hand. What we should do is give a nice "exit gift" of, say, a solid week of around the clock, World War Two style, no holds barred, every bomb that will fit in the air craft, both "modern" and "out dated", blitz bombing of said ****hole.
And if some of that happens to spill over into Pakistan...Oh, well.
And if some of that happens to spill over into Pakistan...Oh, well.
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No, they didn't. Between "hearts and minds" and "kinder, gentler," we had troop strengths and rules of engagement that were more a suicide pact than a war. Had we declared war and flattened everyone who even gave Sharia law a knowing glance, we would have won. Had we stayed home and let them Allah each others' Ackbars, we would have won. But showing up and trying to reason with them was a mistake.Hill folks with old rifles and flip flops having no air force or navy fights a TRILLION dollar military to a stand still. No BUDS, no Ranger school, just OJT.
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Pedophile worshippers have zero regard for human life therefore theirs should be extinguished. Islam is a scourge on humanity and should be snuffed out like the last cigarette before cancer consumes the body. Not a vet but that is my view.
And a gracious thank you to our veterans!
And a gracious thank you to our veterans!
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30,606 Posts
Sure they do. If it goes, "Baaaaaaaa!," they aren't allowed to shoot it, because if they did, they would run out of brides. But everything else is fair game.
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Vietnam was a different scenario entirely. Nuclear weapons had just been invented. For the first time in human history, total war (throwing everything we could at the enemy) was no longer an option. We were struggling to plumb the implications of that fact in a world where our Cold War enemies were roughly our peers. Our restraint wasnt the only factor; we needed not escalate the proxy war to the point where the Russians and Chinese did something monumentally stupid.
Not so with the Taliban. Not only is there no other superpower capable of taking on the US if they discern that we have overstepped, but there is no nuclear power willing to step in on behalf of the terror mullahs. We could have left a glowing green crater and nobody could have stopped us. It's just that doing so isn't consistent with our character.
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2,401 Posts
There is an old saying that anything worth doing is worth doing right. This is undeniably true, and of no human endeavor is it more true than in the conduct of war. If we are going to send young men to risk their lives, knowing some of them will not come back, we owe it to them to do it right, that is, fight to win, and get it over with as soon as we can so our soldiers can come back home.
Once we see no alternative but to go to war, we should do what it takes to defeat the enemy. Trying to be a nice guy might seem like good strategy (as in winning the hearts and minds) but it doesn't seem to work on the misunderstood Islamic fellows.
Every book I have seen on guerilla war, from the writings of Che Guevara, Mao Zedong, and even an IRA manual, makes it a point to say that a guerilla force can not survive against a regular army if the guerilla force does not have the support of the people. This is the only reason the war has gone on so long. In other words, many of those called civilians are not really civilians because they actively support the enemy.
If the Islamic jihadist really was just a small fraction of the population, once the American soldier threw the Taliban down and made him run away with his tail between his legs, the good Muslims would have organized and taken control of their country, and America would have little or no reason to stay there. Or are we to believe that the only Muslims who have a rifle and know their way around are the jihadis, and the good Muslims are too weak to defend themselves from them, even though the good ones supposedly way outnumber the bad ones?
I think our political leaders should have known before this whole thing began that the primitive people living there are simply not going to live in a free country, and those who control their country will always be a problem.
So when they become a threat, the thing to do is hit them with a big hammer and then let them know that if we have a reason to come back we'll hit them a lot harder and do it many times. We can be a very good friend, but if they become a threat to us we can and will be the most terrible enemy they could ever imagine.
It didn't take long for our military to defeat those in control of the country and make them run for the hills; the long war has been a result of nation-building, or what I like to call baby-sitting while we hope they grow up and don't need a baby-sitter. We should have known better.
I've heard that the reason first Russia and then America spent so many years there is that most of the world's opium supply comes from there, and having control of the world's opium supply is a big deal. This is just a theory I've heard; I don't know the subject well enough to have an opinion on whether there's any truth in it, but it is interesting.
So to those who have been there, has there been any attempt by the Americans to destroy the poppy fields?
Once we see no alternative but to go to war, we should do what it takes to defeat the enemy. Trying to be a nice guy might seem like good strategy (as in winning the hearts and minds) but it doesn't seem to work on the misunderstood Islamic fellows.
Every book I have seen on guerilla war, from the writings of Che Guevara, Mao Zedong, and even an IRA manual, makes it a point to say that a guerilla force can not survive against a regular army if the guerilla force does not have the support of the people. This is the only reason the war has gone on so long. In other words, many of those called civilians are not really civilians because they actively support the enemy.
If the Islamic jihadist really was just a small fraction of the population, once the American soldier threw the Taliban down and made him run away with his tail between his legs, the good Muslims would have organized and taken control of their country, and America would have little or no reason to stay there. Or are we to believe that the only Muslims who have a rifle and know their way around are the jihadis, and the good Muslims are too weak to defend themselves from them, even though the good ones supposedly way outnumber the bad ones?
I think our political leaders should have known before this whole thing began that the primitive people living there are simply not going to live in a free country, and those who control their country will always be a problem.
So when they become a threat, the thing to do is hit them with a big hammer and then let them know that if we have a reason to come back we'll hit them a lot harder and do it many times. We can be a very good friend, but if they become a threat to us we can and will be the most terrible enemy they could ever imagine.
It didn't take long for our military to defeat those in control of the country and make them run for the hills; the long war has been a result of nation-building, or what I like to call baby-sitting while we hope they grow up and don't need a baby-sitter. We should have known better.
I've heard that the reason first Russia and then America spent so many years there is that most of the world's opium supply comes from there, and having control of the world's opium supply is a big deal. This is just a theory I've heard; I don't know the subject well enough to have an opinion on whether there's any truth in it, but it is interesting.
So to those who have been there, has there been any attempt by the Americans to destroy the poppy fields?
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13,573 Posts
'Bout damn time!
Now we need to get the hell out of that **** hole country
Now we need to get the hell out of that **** hole country
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30,606 Posts
Why would you say such a horrible thing about the Middle Ages!?
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