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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Locally where I live we had a couple of thugs rob a jewelry store and flee to another county. These guys may have been responsible for a string of robberies all up and down the east coast. During their flight in a black SUV, they were identified and followed by county police, and state police joined in the persuit. The robbers fired at the police cars and the chase ended with one of the perps shot and the other one taking flight on foot to a large wooded area near my workplace. The perp that was shot died at the hospital but the other one stayed in the woods for two days before surrendering.

Bear in mind that this guy was desperate and dangerous, but after 2 days in the 100 degree heat, without food, water and shelter, he gave up voluntarily without a fight.

I am not trying to imply anything here other than this, here was a guy with motivation enough to elude police, participate in a gunfight, and flee on foot, but he couldnt make it on his own for more than two days.

This kind of speaks to all the armchair commando's who look forward to bugging out to the woods when the SHTF. Unless you are accustomed to living under these conditions, you wont make it.

Here's a link to the story.

http://www.nbc12.com/story/15171492/jewelry-heist-suspect-eric-roach-arrested
 

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Take into consideration another context:

This man was a criminal whose very criminal act was that of taking from another because he was either incapable or unwilling to work for these assets himself, within the legitimate or socially acceptable ways for doing so. This may indicate an irresponsible nature and inherent laziness (or possibly just desperation).

Criminals like this may steal because they do not have within themselves a constitution for hard work and patience, and/or because they're junkies with nothing else in mind but immediate gratification. There typically is no 'plan' for such criminals beyond what's right in front of them, otherwise, they would not be robbing a jewelry store and shooting at police to begin with.

It's a good point, but I have to believe these people were dedicated only to the crime, not survival. They therefore lacked the necessary 'tools' to begin with as far as survival goes. They're criminals because they failed to survive society, this would not set them at good odds for surviving the wilderness. People who know only how to take from others never last long, once they run out of people to take from they have no method for providing for themselves.

This is also why the so-called 'raider' mentality discussed on these boards is destined to fail. Such a thought process sows within itself the very seeds of its own destruction. These are also people that are very self-centered and quickly turn on each other once available resources dwindle. There is no honor among them and certainly no finely tuned survival skills.

Increasingly, I believe we'll see a dramatic increase in these brazen robberies by common people who simply have nothing else to lose, it's important to remember that there are more important aspects to life than just money or assets. It's not just a cliche, if the dollar is devalued or destroyed people must learn to get off their butts and develop real skills or talents which can serve to help others, not just take from others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Take into consideration another context:

This man was a criminal whose very criminal act was that of taking from another because he was either incapable or unwilling to work for these assets himself, within the legitimate or socially acceptable ways for doing so. This may indicate an irresponsible nature and inherent laziness (or possibly just desperation).

Criminals like this may steal because they do not have within themselves a constitution for hard work and patience, and/or because they're junkies with nothing else in mind but immediate gratification. There typically is no 'plan' for such criminals beyond what's right in front of them, otherwise, they would not be robbing a jewelry store and shooting at police to begin with.

It's a good point, but I have to believe these people were dedicated only to the crime, not survival. They therefore lacked the necessary 'tools' to begin with as far as survival goes. They're criminals because they failed to survive society, this would not set them at good odds for surviving the wilderness. People who know only how to take from others never last long, once they run out of people to take from they have no method for providing for themselves.

This is also why the so-called 'raider' mentality discussed on these boards is destined to fail. Such a thought process sows within itself the very seeds of its own destruction. These are also people that are very self-centered and quickly turn on each other once available resources dwindle. There is no honor among them and certainly no finely tuned survival skills.

Increasingly, I believe we'll see a dramatic increase in these brazen robberies by common people who simply have nothing else to lose, it's important to remember that there are more important aspects to life than just money or assets. It's not just a cliche, if the dollar is devalued or destroyed people must learn to get off their butts and develop real skills or talents which can serve to help others, not just take from others.
Point well taken Pathfinder, however this guy was a career criminal, not some wanna-be gangsta sideways hat wearing punk.

Obviously though, he wasnt prepared for his flight to the woods.

Honestly, if you want to hike out into the woods and stay alive, you need to know what it is you are facing. You need to try it, not just have your BOB filled with stuff, you need to have the experience. Go out into the woods for a weekend by yourself with your BOB. Find out first-hand what works and what doesnt work, then and only then, can someone be "ready" to do something like this. Not what the criminal did, but to bug out to the woods.
 
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We had another thread where some guys tried to eat only what they shot and caught. They had a bad day of it.

And it would really only take one bad day to screw you.

I do not rate my ability to just wander out into the scrub with nothing but my robbing bag and survive too well.
 

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If Plan A is to become a refugee, develop other plans.

I guess many people have a limited view that they can simply go into 'the hills' or whatever and live off the land. This might be possible for a very few, given the right areas. The vast majority of us don't live in the right areas or even close to them.

A person who limits his or her preps to a bug out bag, no matter how well stocked is going to be a refugee or raider providing he or she lives beyond the rations. How is this person going to get food and fuel without stock piles?

One way of stretching out his or her fate is to have a series or cluster of cache points pre set but that's delaying starvation, unless there's a lot of points or even just one that's well concealed.
 

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Obviously the thieves were not planning on fleeing into the thick, but the situation created the opportunity.
It's difficult to say whether a bug out bag would have helped this guy. Some folks are just not able to deal with outside elements without modern conveniences.
Sounds like heat, hunger, and humidity probably made him crack.

Aside from the running of the law, this story helps to illustrate that the same factors would work on any person bugging out, any raider thinking to claim the land, etc.
The elements are not forgiving, and some folks won't be either.

Running out into the thick is not easy, prepared or not.

Running out into the thick and setting up shop is even more difficult.

Running out into the thick can kill.
 

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While I agree with you that those bugging out are probably not going to make it for long. I don't see how it ties in to that criminal. He had no preparations whatsoever. That's a completely different issue.
 

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Since when do career criminals practice any kind of self-sufficency, let alone wilderness skills? If anything, this story confirms that NO Billy Badass can live without water.
 

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And then theres the guys like Eric Rudolf, who make it for years out in the boonies evading capture. Some can some cant. Rudolf was knowledgeable on survival like us.

I,m all for being prepared, I was a boy scout after all., but lets face it take one of us and say a typical cubical jockey and dump them in the woods with a knife and a bottle of watter, who you betting on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Obviously the thieves were not planning on fleeing into the thick, but the situation created the opportunity.
It's difficult to say whether a bug out bag would have helped this guy. Some folks are just not able to deal with outside elements without modern conveniences.
Sounds like heat, hunger, and humidity probably made him crack.

Aside from the running of the law, this story helps to illustrate that the same factors would work on any person bugging out, any raider thinking to claim the land, etc.
The elements are not forgiving, and some folks won't be either.

Running out into the thick is not easy, prepared or not.

Running out into the thick and setting up shop is even more difficult.

Running out into the thick can kill.

Exactly!:)
 

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Emperor In Exile
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Joe blow in the woods has not got much of a chance.... Joe blow with some training and KNOWLEDGE has a better chance, Joe blow who grew up in the woods or lived in the woods probably will not have a problem...... Joe blow who lives a lifestyle some preppers dream of will not have that much changed for him when SHTF.........

You average spoiled city punk, or corporate exec, dead in 3 days, your average farm boy or mountain man, life as usual minus some of the extras........
 

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If he were a true bad guy, bad guy tough and all, he could have made it 4 days in the woods without water in 100 degree heat...and done us all a favor....
 
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Kind of like the 4 prisoners who escaped and had their planned route blocked, they ran into the east Texas riverbottoms, 2 days later they showed up at a checkpoint begging to be taken into custody, they were covered in mosquito and fire ant bites...... They were city thugs who always talked crap about "DUMB COUNTRY FOLKS".......
 
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