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Interesting perspective taken in this article regarding recent financial events.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1843168,00.html?cnn=yes

Sunday, Sep. 21, 2008
How We Became the United States of France
By Bill Saporito
This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

Admit it, mes amis, the rugged individualism and cutthroat capitalism that made America the land of unlimited opportunity has been shrink-wrapped by a half dozen short sellers in Greenwich, Conn. and FedExed to Washington D.C. to be spoon-fed back to life by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson. We're now no different from any of those Western European semi-socialist welfare states that we love to deride. Italy? Sure, it's had four governments since last Thursday, but none of them would have allowed this to go on; the Italians know how to rig an economy.

You just know the Frogs have only increased their disdain for us, if that is indeed possible. And why shouldn't they? The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist. The Bush Administration has preached the "ownership society" to America: own your house, own your retirement account; you don't need the government in your way. So Americans mortgaged themselves to the hilt to buy overpriced houses they can no longer afford and signed up for 401k programs that put money where, exactly? In the stock market! Where rich Republicans fleeced them.

Now our laissez-faire (hey, a French word) regulation-averse Administration has made France's only Socialist president, Francois Mitterand, look like Adam Smith by comparison. All Mitterand did was nationalize France's big banks and insurance companies in 1982; he didn't have to deal with bankers who didn't want to lend money, as Paulson does. When the state runs the banks, they are merely cows to be milked in the service of la patrie. France doesn't have the mortgage crisis that we do, either. In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world. Sure, France has its banlieus, where it likes to warehouse people who aren't French enough (meaning, immigrants orAlgerians) in huge apartment blocks. But the bulk of French homeowners are curiously free of subprime mortgages foisted on them by fellow citizens, and they aren't over their heads in personal debt.

We've always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch — except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal. They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don't have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free. For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven't had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon. There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does.

Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance. You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that. An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt. But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares.

Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda. And they're looking to Uncle Sam for investment — an investment that could have been avoided had Washington imposed more stringent mileage standards years earlier. But we don't want to interfere with market forces like the French do — until we do.

Mitterand's nationalization program and other economic reforms failed, as the development of the European Market made a centrally planned economy obsolete. The Rothschilds got their bank back, a little worse for wear. These days, France sashays around the issue of protectionism in a supposedly unfettered EU by proclaiming some industries to be national champions worthy of extra consideration — you know, special needs kids. And we're not talking about pastry chefs, but the likes of GDF Suez, a major utility. I never thought of the stocks and junk securities sold by Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley as unique, but clearly Washington does. Morgan's John Mack calls SEC boss Chris Cox to whine about short sellers and bingo, the government obliges. The elite serve the elite. How French is that?

Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than France.

So yes, while we're still willing to work ourselves to death for the privilege of paying off our usurious credit cards, we can no longer look contemptuously at the land of 246 cheeses. Kraft Foods has replaced American International Group in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the insurance company having been added to Paulson's nationalized portfolio. Macaroni and cheese has supplanted credit default swaps at the fulcrum of capitalism. And one more thing: the food snob French love McDonalds, which does a fantastic business there. They know a good freedom fry when they taste one.
 

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Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than Franc
The French by and large eat fairly well and are pretty healthy. You won't find too many eating imported food from China or meat raised to the low standards of the US.
It works for them, so why worry about it?
 

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ruralist
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Interesting article. France is a Republic like the US too and deeply Christian by faith, so maybe it's time they took some hints. I'm not saying roll over and accept it's wrong, instate a French national as President and change the national language. Although that is how some would like to see such an article. Maybe it's just time the people of the US were untrained of the rhetorical propaganda about France which has been subliminally and liminally pumped into them for decades. Not that I expect anyone will read beyond the first few lines of the article, before tearing into France, like the unseen want. Over in the Uk there's been political talk of France's model, with the gas crisis. The UK had plenty of gas, at a price which could be held accountable, but now it's pulled out by MNCs and old people freeze in the 4th richest country on earth. But then once the word "nationalise" is mentioned, all hell breaks loose amongst the sensationalists.
 

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I Maybe it's just time the people of the US were untrained of the rhetorical propaganda about France which has been subliminally and liminally pumped into them for decades.
99.999999999 percent of the people who criticize France have never been there nor have a passport.
 

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that doesn't sound made up at all. I think I am just going to believe everything fx john says from now on.

On a serious note.... my next door neighbor is german and she hates france, so does her family
 

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that doesn't sound made up at all. I think I am just going to believe everything fx john says from now on.

On a serious note.... my next door neighbor is german and she hates france, so does her family
it wouldn't surprise me a bit if your german neighbor hates anyone who isn't a blonde haired blue eyed german or swede.
 

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it wouldn't surprise me a bit if your german neighbor hates anyone who isn't a blonde haired blue eyed german or swede.
Ever been to Germany?

It has a huge Alpine population.

The blue eyed blond crap was anti-German propaganda started back during WWII.
 

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Ever been to Germany?

It has a huge Alpine population.

The blue eyed blond crap was anti-German propaganda started back during WWII.
no it was german ideals formed by Hitler and the SS even before the war.
woops, you don't know anything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race
The term "Nordic" itself was initially proposed as a racial group by the Russian born French anthropologist Joseph Deniker in 1899. Deniker's use of Nordique was meant to simply translate as "Northern", and his idea of what it stood for was more akin to an "ethnic group" (another term which he coined) than a biological "race". He defined nordique by a set of physical characteristics: The concurrence of fair, somewhat wavy hair, light eyes, reddish skin, tall stature and a dolichocephalic skull.[25] Of six 'caucasian' groups Deniker accommodated four into secondary ethnic groups, all of which he considered intermediate to the Nordic: Northwestern, Sub-Nordic, Vistula and Sub-Adriatic, respectively. [26]


[edit] Nazi Nordicism

1932 election poster: "Wir Arbeiter sind erwacht -- Wir wählen Nationalsozialisten — Liste 2 "We labourers have awoken -- We vote National-Socialists -- List 2"Adolf Hitler read Human Heredity shortly before he wrote Mein Kampf, and called it scientific proof of the racial basis of civilization.[3] Its arguments were also repeated by the Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg, in his book The Myth of the Twentieth Century (1930). Rosenberg argued that the Nordic race had evolved in a now-lost landmass off the coast of North Western Europe, and had migrated through Scandinavia and northern Europe, expanding further south, and as far as Iran and India where it founded the Aryan cultures of Zoroastrianism and Hinduism. Like Grant and others, he argued that the entrepreneurial energy of the Nordics had "degenerated" when they mixed with "inferior" peoples.

With the rise of Hitler, Nordic theory became the norm within German culture. In some cases the "Nordic" concept became an almost abstract ideal rather than a mere racial category. Hermann Gauch wrote in 1933 that the fact that "birds can be taught to talk better than other animals is explained by the fact that their mouths are Nordic in structure." He further claimed that in humans, "the shape of the Nordic gum allows a superior movement of the tongue, which is the reason why Nordic talking and singing are richer."[44] Such views were extreme, but more mainstream Nordic theory was institutionalized. Hans F. K. Günther, who joined the Nazi Party in 1932, was praised as a pioneer in racial thinking, a shining light of Nordic theory. Most official Nazi comments on the Nordic Race were based on Günther's works, and Alfred Rosenberg presented Günther with a medal for his work in anthropology. Fischer and Lenz were also appointed to senior positions overseeing the policy of Racial Hygiene. Madison Grant's book was the first non-German book to be translated and published by the Nazi Reich press, and Grant proudly displayed to his friends a letter from Hitler claiming that the book was "his Bible."[45][46] The Nazi state used such ideas about the differences between European races as part of their various discriminatory and coercive policies which culminated in the Holocaust. Ironically, in Grant's first edition of his popular book, he classified the Germans as being primarily Nordic, but in his second edition, published after the USA had entered WWI, he had re-classified the now enemy power as being dominated by "inferior" Alpines. Günther's work agreed with Grant's, and the German anthropologist frequently stated that the Germans are definitely not a fully Nordic people. Hitler himself was later to downplay the importance of Nordicism in public for this very reason. The standard tripartite model placed most of the population of Hitler's Germany in the Alpine category, especially after the Anschluss.

J. Kaup led a movement opposed to Günther. Kaup took the view that a German nation, all of whose citizens belonged to a "German race" in a populationist sense, offered a more convenient sociotechnical tool than Günther's concept of an ideal Nordic type to which only a very few Germans could belong. Nazi legislation identifying the ethnic and "racial" affinities of the Jews reflects the populationist concept of race. Discrimination was not restricted to Jews who belonged to the "Oriental-Armenoid" race, but was directed against all members of the Jewish ethnic population.[47]

The German journalist Kurt Caro (*1905) who emigrated to Paris in 1933 and served in the British army from 1943,[48] published a book under the pseudonym Manuel Humbert unmasking Hitler's "Mein Kampf" in which he stated the following racial composition of the Jewish population of Central Europe: 23,8% Lapponid race, 21,5% Nordic race, 20,3% Armenoid race, 18,4% Mediterranean race, 16,0% Oriental race.[49]

By 1939 Hitler had abandoned Nordicist rhetoric in favour of the idea that the German people as a whole were united by distinct "spiritual" qualities. Nevertheless, Nazi eugenics policies continued to favor Nordics over Alpines and other racial groups, particularly during the war when decisions were being made about the incorporation of conquered peoples into the Reich.[50][51][52] In 1942 Hitler stated in private,

I shall have no peace of mind until I have planted a seed of Nordic blood wherever the population stand in need of regeneration. If at the time of the migrations, while the great racial currents were exercising their influence, our people received so varied a share of attributes, these latter blossomed to their full value only because of the presence of the Nordic racial nucleus.[53]

Hitler and Himmler planned to use the SS as the basis for the racial "regeneration" of Europe following the final victory of Nazism. The SS was to be a racial elite chosen on the basis of "pure" Nordic qualities.[54][55][56]

Addressing officers of the SS-Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler" Himmler stated:

The ultimate aim for those 11 years during which I have been the Reichsfuehrer SS has been invariably the same: to create an order of good blood which is able to serve Germany; which unfailingly and without sparing itself can be made use of because the greatest losses can do no harm to the vitality of this order, the vitality of these men, because they will always be replaced; to create an order which will spread the idea of Nordic blood so far that we will attract all Nordic blood in the world, take away the blood from our adversaries, absorb it so that never again, looking at it from the viewpoint of grand policy, Nordic blood, in great quantities and to an extent worth mentioning, will fight against us.[57]
 

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Hitler was concerned that the Nordic race was becoming extinct.

In case you never noticed Hitler was hardly a Nordic himself.
 

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Hitler was concerned that the Nordic race was becoming extinct.

In case you never noticed Hitler was hardly a Nordic himself.
I thought you said it was all anti german propaganda. :rolleyes:
 

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I thought you said it was all anti german propaganda. :rolleyes:
It was. Just like the term "master race". No Nazi ever used that term.

If you like to discuss this and have me hand your ass to you feel free to start a new thread but I have no desire to derail this tread.
 

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do you trust the wiki article or not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race

"Hitler and Himmler planned to use the SS as the basis for the racial "regeneration" of Europe following the final victory of Nazism. The SS was to be a racial elite chosen on the basis of "pure" Nordic qualities"
 

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do you trust the wiki article or not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race

"Hitler and Himmler planned to use the SS as the basis for the racial "regeneration" of Europe following the final victory of Nazism. The SS was to be a racial elite chosen on the basis of "pure" Nordic qualities"
No, I do not. For starters the SS had recruits from all over Europe including the Baltic states.
 

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No, I do not. For starters the SS had recruits from all over Europe including the Baltic states.
at first they recruited the best looking soldiers, as the war pressed on their standards were lowered. If you don't think Nazis were racist you really missed the boat.
 

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ruralist
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Ok I like to talk about nazis too but this is irrelevant. Germany pwned France, then lost the gains. That's why she is upset.
 

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Ok I like to talk about nazis too but this is irrelevant. Germany pwned France, then lost the gains. That's why she is upset.
She sounds like a really nice lady :rolleyes:

she harbors a grudge against an entire country <snicker>
 

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In case anyone forgot....

Following the Declaration of Independence of the thirteen colonies, the American Revolution had been well received in France, both by the population and the enlightened elites. The Revolution was perceived as the incarnation of the Enlightenment Spirit against the "English tyranny". Benjamin Franklin, dispatched to France in December of 1776 to rally her support, was welcomed with enthusiasm, and numerous Frenchmen embarked for the Americas to help the war, motivated by the prospect of valor in battle or animated by the sincere ideal of liberty and republicanism, like Pierre Charles L'Enfant, and La Fayette, who enlisted in 1776.

The official reaction was more quiet . Louis XVI wanted to help the colonies. But, because of the financial situation in France, he just provided clandestine aid through Beaumarchais. Vergennes (in office from 1774 to 1781) was in favor of open participation by France and suggested the possibility of commercial and diplomatic gains: The situation was under French analysis, and they were looking for allies (Spain through their Family Pact, and Austria), or at least ensuring their neutrality (Austria, Holland, Prussia).
 

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ruralist
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France's nationalised EDF (Électricité de France) are now so successful they are providing energy to UK residents. They were so powerful they acquisized such UK private providers a few years back. It's an embarrasing state of affairs.
 
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