[Desertlion]

Is anybody here not convinced that this scenario in Ukraine is EXACTLY what the BRICS nations have been waiting for to transfer reserve status away from America? They are having another meeting in Brazil in march this year I think.

My thoughts are Russia will step in look powerful, bring stability, while America sits on its hands and backs out on its "Promises". Now, I am not saying I think we should intervene in Ukraine militarily, but when we make promises to help or defend or support then back out, what Kind of message does that send to the world? More countries are losing their faith in America's ability to be a reserve power. There are a lot of straws on this camel's back, what do you guys think about this one being the ONE?

As for me, i'm looking at 2015

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

 

[DanlC]

reserve status? reserve power?

You seem to be mixing our currency with a whole lot of other, not necessarily related aspects of our country.

Yes, some are already making noise about Russia dropping the dollar as a reserve currency if we impose sanctions. Further intervention (which we started by instigating and funding the overthrow of the Ukrainian government) is the threat to the dollar. Lack of intervention would buy the dollar some time, but won't stop the inevitable loss of it's status as the world's reserve currency.

 

[spameggsbaconandspam]

Why on earth did NATO make a limp wristed agreement to defend Ukraine in the first place? What, to keep the flow of nat gas flowing west to Europe? The US has no business there.

Any one of the BRICS nations would be complete and total idiots for wanting to supplant the reserve status of the USD. What would they have to gain? Bragging rights and eternal trade deficits? Nobody wants that. It may have made sense when so much of the continental european industrial capacity was destroyed during WWII. US business would be in better shape with the loss of reserve status. This isn't something countries fight for.

 

[Sacajawea]

Ah. But what about the large amounts of money on deposit and invested by Russian Oligarch's? In our banks and brokerages.

Witness the UK, announcing yesterday that they would not be a party to any financial sanctions; citing the amount of business the Russians do in London.

They may not be the biggest holder of Treasury Bonds, but they're big enough to blow really hard on those dominos. And with "indirect exchange" of bonds being a way to dump treasuries without needing a buyer on the open market...

well.

Putin just told Obama: Be careful what you wish for.

 

[catmando]

1. U.S. has NO national interests in that region
2. Ukraine is a "observer" member of NATO.. what effect will this have ?
3. Ukraine had nuclear weapons and was promised by president clinton in '91 to be protected if they gave them up.... will anyone trust the U.S. again?

couple this with the fact that the three stooges( kerry, hagel and obama) want to cut back american military forces to pre ww 2 levels and you can seethat the future of america isnt very bright

 

[Desertlion]

reserve status? reserve power?

You seem to be mixing our currency with a whole lot of other, not necessarily related aspects of our country.

Oh my gosh, i hate the internet. chill out dude. yes our countries ability to continue (status) on as the world's reserve currency (i.e. petro-dollar)

Lack of intervention would buy the dollar some time, but won't stop the inevitable loss of it's status as the world's reserve currency.

So is Ukraine the beginning of the end? or the end of the end? or just the gooey middle :thumb:?

 

[Sacajawea]

Well, you could already see the end of the petrodollar, when Iran sold oil to Turkey for gold - that the US allowed within the technical specifications of sanctions, for a few months.

China has contracts for oil/gas in yuan and a year or so ago announced that it would be developing currency clearinghouse exchanges in Frankfort, London and NYC (maybe somewhere in Africa/middle eat - Dubai, for example).

This has been known for some time. What took me by surprise, is the timing. I didn't think we were that far down the ****ter yet.

 

[zatoichi]

The Ukraine is a mess

The reason why Yanukovich was run out because he was spectacularly bad at his job. It appears he was a thief. That grotesque display of wealth is very jarring in a country that is undergoing much tougher economic conditions than what we have he in the US.

The Ukraine is close to being a basket case.

My point for the above. Why would Russia want this headache? The Ukraine is in very bad need of honest and competent governance. They also need very favorable terms in their current debt and future debt.

They are in a bad spot and quite frankly it will take a long time in getting out of the hole they are in. Not only that they have to get much better deals than they have been offered. The Russian deal gives them a lot of cash. But it comes at a cost of state assets being sold off to the Russians at some point. The EU deal is taking on a lot of pain in austerity with no guarantee that is will be as short as say three or four years.

 

[Sacajawea]

Two things the Russians might be interested in (beyond the port in Crimea):

Grain
Access to market (Ukraine's pipeline for oil/gas)

Apparently, there is a challenge to Ru's dominance in the energy field. Saw this, last night:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-04/ukraine-follow-energy

There will be more places like this get squabbled over, in the near-term. And precisely for the same resources: food > (which in any quantity requires) > energy/fuels.

 

[spameggsbaconandspam]

Let's not forget the Total-Saudi Aramco Syrian pipeline snuff in Syria.

Saudi Arabia threatened and delivered on terrorist attacks in Russia just prior to the Olympics.

 

[DanlC]

Oh my gosh, i hate the internet. chill out dude. yes our countries ability to continue (status) on as the world's reserve currency (i.e. petro-dollar)

Perhaps you would hate the internet less if you took the time to communicate your thoughts more clearly.

 

[talon115]

Any chance that the Russians are just looking out for their Naval base in Crimea?

 

[zatoichi]

Any chance that the Russians are just looking out for their Naval base in Crimea?

Its worse than that.

There are a lot of posters who are trying to make this into a breakdown of some sort. The fact remains is that the Ukraine has a very long history with Russia and is literally on their doorstep.

The Ukraine will always be more important to Russian than the combined interest of the West.

That said it is the expansion of NATO that created the conditions.

Anyone who says differently is ignoring Russian sensibilities.