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the "d" from ban[d]
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The reason the stock market is 76% up for 2020 is because the FED is propping it up. Therefore, the FED is stealing money from everyone in the world who holds dollars and giving it to the 10% of the population that holds Stocks and Bonds. How else do you get P/E ratios of 2700 or 350 when the average P/E is around 20? If they steal from the purchasing power of the currency at large to enrich the 10%, then its fair to give the average person UBI. Tesla and Boeing stock shouldn't be anywhere near what it is.
P/E ratios are up because people keep buying some companies. Based on your post I am part of the 10%. My son and daughter have not had money stolen from them. You just do not have a clue.
 

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Well you can look at Greece when they colapsed from all the "we'll take care of you" promise. For that matter look at any Socialist country. Why do they want to come here?
I can only guess. I think it's what I call "the socialist myth," although I may not be original with that term. The myth goes, "We tried to do the right thing with socialism, but the people we got to lead us screwed it up. The next time, we'll make it work."
 

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Bullhorn just asked Why the socialists want to come here. Without putting too fine a point on it, "socialism" along with all the other touchie-feelly "ism's, are just a bunch of nice, fuzzy camouflage for Totalitarian Rule Under Communism ... as currently practiced by the Chinese ... and lately by our own group of traitors, seditionists, thieves, villains and election stealing scoundrels in congress and the White House.

IT'S ABOUT GLOBAL DOMINANCE !!! and we just lost to China.

They want to entice the lazy, greedy, tribal and ignorant among us with gifts and free stuff like UBI, free citizenship, free education, free healthcare, govt subsidies, unrestricted voting rights, etc.

obama, pelosi, harris, schumer, beiden and others, along with our own intelligence agencies, actually cut a Deal with China during the clinton and obama administrations. That deal would effectively END the Republic of 1776 and cede global dominance to China through hillary clinton's "friendly" administration. Trump's election utterly destroyed that plan, forcing them to regroup and craft a way to distract the nation while they engineered Trumps removal. The distraction was Covid-19 and the removal was accomplished through Dominion Software along with the cooperation of 7 socialist nations and 7 socialist American state governments.

You are all playing their game and discussing the DISTRACTIONS rather than the root cause of the problem ... and what to do about it ... just like the passengers on the Titanic.
 

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Because of three related factors.

The stimulus have given most people more money at one time than they have ever had before in their lives.

The collapse of the supply chain has made it harder to spend money.

And, Corona scared a significant part of the population into living more practically.

Coupled with all the extra money, the difficulty spending it, many people have decided to simply save it.

Hence....the current disastrous economy.
Just curious here, but where is the supply chain collapsed? Besides people hoarding TP and water, I'm not aware that there are any major problems getting food and necessary items.
 

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Just curious here, but where is the supply chain collapsed? Besides people hoarding TP and water, I'm not aware that there are any major problems getting food and necessary items.
We're building a house, and it's been an eye-opener.

There are shortages of everything. Some houses have been held up for months because two windows have been on backorder. There are shortages of bricks, cabinets, lumber, hardware, doors, shingles, etc. Part of the problem is contractual, i.e. according to the contract you can't move in until the house is complete according to the contract, and the contract says the house isn't complete until that last ceiling fan is installed AND the house passes final inspection, and the we've been waiting for the fan for 3 months. I know, it's ridiculous, but we've litigated ourselves into such silly contracts.

The supply system is finally showing effects of the economy shutting down, because the economy is starting back up and demanding products that aren't available because the economy was shut down.
 

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Products and distribution have been severely affected by the virus and it's shutdowns. We ordered a Generac full house backup system the middle of Oct. 2020 in expectations of having it for last winter only to discover,,,,,,,,

The original shipping date was for Dec.22. The generator was finally delivered yesterday and the install completed the gas plumbing is done. The electrician is due by this afternoon to make up his materials list and schedule us in for completion of the installation.

The originil 6 week shipping period which was already long due to the virus went to nearly 6 months.
 

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Just curious here, but where is the supply chain collapsed? Besides people hoarding TP and water, I'm not aware that there are any major problems getting food and necessary items.
Pretty much every supply chain is screwed up right now. Global silicon shortage, wood shortage, manufacturing is just not at 100% and it takes a long time to ramp up production and get the gears moving again.

We went from six week lead times for large orders of computers to six month during Covid. We're still at 4+ months with many models simply unavailable on any timeline. The ripple effects of Covid and government's response to Covid will take awhile to fade out completely. Wood and steel prices through the damned roof. On the tech side CPUs and especially GPUs have been unobtanium for six months. RAM, PSU and SSD prices climbed.
 

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I think the best thing anyone can do at this point is live on as little money as possible, get rid of any debt, and live in a cheap place. That way you only need very little money. For us, the stimulus checks ( husband, myself and even son got them for a total of close to $5000). were a large amount of money. It could pay for groceries ( what we don't produce ourselves) for a few years. For someone living in a rental place in a large city, the amount probably only pays for the rent for a few months. The problem is going to be when the money supply is greater than the available goods and we get huge inflation. I think it's already happening. Prices in a lot of things have gone up, more than average inflation.

So stimulus or Universal income are great for poor people in cheap areas but useless for middle class or more in expensive areas.
 

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So stimulus or Universal income are great for poor people in cheap areas but useless for middle class or more in expensive areas.
Heh, my family's stimulus funds pay for less than a month of our expenses. If only used for our mortgage it would be almost three months worth. The resulting inflation from this fiscal insanity will cost us more than the bulk of the stimulus within 18 months for individuals in more expensive areas.
 

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I think the best thing anyone can do at this point is live on as little money as possible, get rid of any debt, and live in a cheap place. That way you only need very little money. For us, the stimulus checks ( husband, myself and even son got them for a total of close to $5000). were a large amount of money. It could pay for groceries ( what we don't produce ourselves) for a few years. For someone living in a rental place in a large city, the amount probably only pays for the rent for a few months. The problem is going to be when the money supply is greater than the available goods and we get huge inflation. I think it's already happening. Prices in a lot of things have gone up, more than average inflation.

So stimulus or Universal income are great for poor people in cheap areas but useless for middle class or more in expensive areas.
The only problem is if you stash the cash in a few years it’ll buy less, but it’s better than nothing.

I get pontificating the dangers of “free money” but we’re so far down the rabbit hole(since 08) that I’ll take all I can get to fortify my positions and prepare ourselves for a day of reckoning.

After all I didn’t vote for the clowns in control I’m just trying to keep my eyes on the horizon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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The only problem is if you stash the cash in a few years it’ll buy less, but it’s better than nothing.

I get pontificating the dangers of “free money” but we’re so far down the rabbit hole(since 08) that I’ll take all I can get to fortify my positions and prepare ourselves for a day of reckoning.

After all I didn’t vote for the clowns in control I’m just trying to keep my eyes on the horizon.
Yep. I keep trying to tell my mom and dad this. They've had a ton of their net worth in stupid CDs and savings accounts for the past several years because they're afraid of the market crashing. In the mean time they've lose so much purchasing power that they could have had. Now, if the market does crash, it'll crash back to where they are now, big deal. You can't fight the tide, just do your best to swim with it in the right direction.

Savings in this day and age is stupid, you're just losing money. If you have debt, pay off the debt. Save a small amount so you have some liquidity, pop the rest into investments. Investments like crypto are super liquid so I only keep ~ 5k in the bank for emergency uses and even that's probably too high. The rest is in real estate (not enough), stocks, and crypto.
 

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You do know that UBI is comming and it cannot be stopped. Because the majority of
the people demand it?
the problem with UBI is that the poorest people either 1) have too low of an IQ to take care of themselves 2) have too low of an EQ to take care of themselves.

If you imagine the capability of the bottom 10%, that is 33 million people who are simply incompetent at living life

They would take a one time cash payment for their UBI and then essentially be in the same boat.

I do think the welfare system should be modified in the following way:

1) allow people to start to working while on welfare without losing their benefits as a cliff. For every dollar you make, you lose 50 cents (or 30 cents or whatever) of welfare benefits. If you get 25K of welfare benefits you dont lose them all until you make 50K from your job.

2) dont allow people to get on welfare until they have nothing.

3) Attach welfare to individuals and allow them to get married. Right now welfare blocks the poor from getting married.

govt jobs should not be lifetime jobs. They should be starter jobs where people work 3-10 years, but the jobs pay much less and have no defined benefit retirement. The idea would be that the government is a place for young people to work their first job but there is constant turnover.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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The only problem is if you stash the cash in a few years it’ll buy less, but it’s better than nothing.

I get pontificating the dangers of “free money” but we’re so far down the rabbit hole(since 08) that I’ll take all I can get to fortify my positions and prepare ourselves for a day of reckoning.

After all I didn’t vote for the clowns in control I’m just trying to keep my eyes on the horizon.


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But it is easy enough to get at least a 6% yield out of your money. So that money doubles in 12 years. Most thing are not going to double in 12 years.
 

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For me.. neither.

They need to stop this nonsense.

UBI is a giveaway for the illiterate and uniformed and under-un-educated.

Its fodder to consume. it hasn't helped, it wont help.

UBI is also based on marxism. Equalized income for all. No one makes any more than anyone else.
OK, fine.
watch stagnation take place.
I agree. The sooner people realize that there’s nothing “given” to us and the government is kicking the can down the road, the better off we would be. But let’s get real-no one is going to take the time to study basic economics and figure that out.
 

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I agree. The sooner people realize that there’s nothing “given” to us and the government is kicking the can down the road, the better off we would be. But let’s get real-no one is going to take the time to study basic economics and figure that out.
Welcome to SB!
 

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The only problem is if you stash the cash in a few years it’ll buy less, but it’s better than nothing.

I get pontificating the dangers of “free money” but we’re so far down the rabbit hole(since 08) that I’ll take all I can get to fortify my positions and prepare ourselves for a day of reckoning.

After all I didn’t vote for the clowns in control I’m just trying to keep my eyes on the horizon.


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That's pretty much my position. We're saving it up for a house downpayment. It looks like we got locked in on the price just before the cost of everything went through the roof.
 

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Yep. I keep trying to tell my mom and dad this. They've had a ton of their net worth in stupid CDs and savings accounts for the past several years because they're afraid of the market crashing. In the mean time they've lose so much purchasing power that they could have had. Now, if the market does crash, it'll crash back to where they are now, big deal. You can't fight the tide, just do your best to swim with it in the right direction.

Savings in this day and age is stupid, you're just losing money. If you have debt, pay off the debt. Save a small amount so you have some liquidity, pop the rest into investments. Investments like crypto are super liquid so I only keep ~ 5k in the bank for emergency uses and even that's probably too high. The rest is in real estate (not enough), stocks, and crypto.
What's a good way to invest in real estate if you don't have the money to buy property? Or that a subject that needs it's own thread?
 
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