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In reading wether to shoot trespassers,it has come to my attention that there are going to be many many homeless people who have lost jobs and homes who will travel alone or group up for saftey's sake and will be looking for food or jobs. The closure of banks and stores has just begun and will worsen over the next 2 years. There has been 1.6 million job losses in 2008 and this will more than triple over the next two years along with more forclosures thru 2012. So the numbers of people moving around will grow most looking for food and shelter,do you help as many as you can or keep yours for you and yours? Gene
 

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Iv'e only been in deadly confrontations a few times in my life. Unquestionably, I will take care of mine always. However, I do have a very limited amount stashed to assist those in TRUE NEED (by my judgement). Additionally, I would consider the possibility of someone joining my group if they are able to provide a considerable amount of preps and skills for our common goal.
Other than that I have plenty of lead and fortitude to protect me and mine.
 

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If it came down to it can they provide anything (skills, other items of interest, etc) in trade and/or will you have enough to support your own. The reason that you prepared is to provide for yours. Now if the roles were reversed what would they do?
 

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Our cavemen ancestors didn't survive by sharing with the neighboring tribe; they defended what they had and attacked for what they lacked, this included women.
 

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In my opinion, It totally depends upon the circumstances, If a destitute family trespassed asking for food or assistance, I would try to help them, but in return for labor.
If a group I considered menacing trespassed I would kill them without warning....
 

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my wife and I discussed this yesterday. Our location is such that we both agree; if somebody came walking down our driveway, they would have already proven themselves to be very industrious, or incredibly lost. Depending in how the gardens are going at the time, they will either get a meal or a longer term job. But I don't think it's too likely.
 

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http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article941163.ece

Times are getting tough but as a human I would try to help. The reason why I say this is because when people work together things get easier. Your less of a target and can insure better defense in group. I think that survival in the short term would be harder within a group but once and effective group has been established with people who do the jobs that need done, survival would ussually be secured. Look at most tribal and even amish communities. Typically they are groups of 10 to 50 people ussually working together towards communal goals. The only downside to this would be that when someone doesn't pull their weight the group may suffer. Survival as an idividual or small group would probably be easier at first but I would think setting up long term survival would be made more difficult because of vulnerability and competition. I dont agree with raptor about not sharing. I think our ancestors shared and traded with each other almost to a fault. It made it easier for people like the conquistadors and other conquerors when they were met by friendly people who were not as well prepared or as well equiped for war.
 

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It only makes sense to share with neighbors if they are truly needy, at least in exchange for some sort of labor or other goods. If they are just meth heads or other kind of riff raff they'll probably turn into a liability though. Complete strangers walking up to my house? It depends on my ability, and their worthiness.

I will only shoot someone if they prove to have nefarious intentions. Don't forget, even in a TEOTWAWKI situation, there is a likelyhood that government will emerge, and if you have mass graves or even one one scumbag buried somewhere, you may have to answer for it.

I'm also a firm believer that we have a higher power to answer to when it's all said and done, and I don't particularly care to find myself trying to justify murder to Him.
 

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We are having our first 2009 monthly meeting on what to do with trespassers. For the community lands we have always gone on a case by case basis before, but if something happens we need to know what the group thinks is best.

For those from the surrounding area, I know everyone that lives here so those people we have already planned on helping. These people are also very polite and wouldn't just come in and take things that aren't theirs. For outsiders who wander in, I'm thinking from the small discussions that we've been having that they will be prosecuted and have the sheriff remove them. If there comes a time when there is no sheriff, I feel we need to keep us and the people we know safe. This means getting rid of the trespassers in the safest manner for us and our family and friends.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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the newly destitute are going to become more and more dangerous as people fall further and further from what they once had. "postal' type shootings will probably rise, petty crime will go up astronomically (shoplifting, ect).

Security jobs are already up because the haves are feeling the pressure from the have-nots. We had a bit of an incident Xmas eve downtown with purse snatching and simple battery (from the guys that usually are panhandling for a fix). we had LEO backup and they were really being run ragged by pissed off poor and newly homeless
 

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If a man won't work, neither shall he eat. When things collapse the last thing I'd want to do is reinstate a welfare system. That's one of the good parts of hitting rock-bottom - we should be able to start again the right way. This doesn't mean there is a lack of charity, just that I expect people to take up their responsibilities more.
 

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In our preps we've taken into consideration extra mouths that may need feeding. It might be friends or family that show up or it might be a stranger in need of a meal. I've flipped flopped over this several times but in the end it comes down to doing what is right and what I would want done to me. This doesn't mean I simply give away food to every Tom, **** and Harry that show up. First off you will work for the food, firewood always needs cutting, gardens need weeding, there's always menial tasks that need doing. Second, this is a short term agreement, if I judge the person to be honorable then perhaps they'll be invited to stay longer.
 

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There is always work to be done on a homestead. As Mos19k said "This is a short term agreement."

I live out in the boonies, if anyone makes it to my place they have stamina, they are not lazy and not afraid to go off the beaten track. They might be worth keeping around.

If I hear bullits in the distance, I will definately checking it out and helping my neighbors.
 

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I kinda see where Dwind is coming from.
Its kinda like the "feed the bears" thing.Once you stop,they start getting agressive and demanding.I'm more concerned about when the welfare trough stops getting slopped. Then you have large populations of people who have zero marketable skills getting ornery.
 

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I as watching 'The First 48' one night and they had a case where a woman shot to death right ouside her place of employment. The detectives watched the security camera feeds and saw a young man enter the building. He was not dressed like a gang banger, he did not have tattoos all over his face. He looked like any other young man. He took the elevator up to the fourth floor, went into a random office and asked where the restroom was. He was shown where it was and he was then seen on camera going into the restroom. He came out a short time later and went back to the elevator. The elevator camera showed a woman with a bookbag getting into the elevator and going down the elevator with the young man. They both stepped out of the elevator and walked out the front door. Just before they were out of the camera's range the young man pulled out a gun and shot the woman in the head.

When he was caught later he said that he just went into places and scoped them out to see if there was anything worth stealing. If there wasn't, he left. He said he saw the woman's bookbag and thought it had a laptop computer in it so he shot her in the head to steal the bag, but her body fell over the bag so he couldn't get it.

If you look at the camera pictures all you see is some young man. He looks perfectly normal, right up until he pulls the gun out of his pocket and shoots the woman in the head. Not all predators where black and look evil.

Ted Bundy was a hansom young man who woman claimed they trusted. We all can see in hindsight that this was foolish. Hindsight is twenty/twenty.

So, my question is, how do you know that this nice person who smiles as they appoach you isn't going to pull out his gun when your guard is down? Or are most people here different from me and know their head and their loved ones heads are bullet proof?

I am sorry for those who simply didn't know enough to prepare themselves for the world to change. I wish I had the ability to a) take care of them all and b) trust them all. I don't have either of those abilities though. I know the people from this area and plan on helping them the best I can. I have done this in every natural disaster. As a school nurse I am friends with most of the parents of the kids. If something were to happen I plan on sending my child home with the neighbor children so that he can be protected by the neighbors while I stay and help those in town the best I can with my nursing training.

If, however, someone I don't know comes on my land where I, a single woman and her son, live alone, there is a good chance that I won't take the chance that Ted Bundy is standing in my woods. Or that this young man who looks normal won't shoot me in the head for whatever I am carrying. On another thread many of the people who claim they are going to trespass in a SHTF situation spent much of their time threatening the landowners, saying that they were better at killing than the landowners. How do I know that the person trespassing on my land isn't one of those?

I'm going to use every advantage I have to survive. The element of surprise is probably going to be my greatest advantage. If I give them a warning, I lose that advantage. Strangers that I do not know may not be given the same curtesy as the people in the area. Not because I am blood thirsty, but because I'm afraid we don't all come with a sound track that lets others know if we are just some good guy passing through or if we are able to rationalize stealing and killing others to get what we want or if we are truly sick individuals. Until God starts putting up some sort of sign that lets me know at a distance who is good and who is bad, I will use the brain he gave me to defend myself and my son.

Maybe men and women see this differently. Women have had to protect themselves from so much. Men talk about gettin ginto fights and how they kicked this or that guy's a$$. Women worry about being robbed, attacked, killed and raped. While I know men can be raped I don't think it is something they worry about quite as much as women do, or maybe I am mistaken there.

I really ache inside to imagine a situation where I could have protected my son but chose to give charity to a stranger that ended up hurting my child. It would kill me to know that I could have save my child that pain by taking on the horrible sin of killing on my own shoulders to spare him any pain. I look at my son's face and I never want him to fall to any harm by a stranger, especially one that I could have protected him from. When a person has a child that they love, they understand this.

I would spend eternity in hell to save my boy from pain. I am sorry, but this is the way I feel. I can't imagine anyone being able to say anything that would make me choose a stranger over my child.

blt
 

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When I worked as a military prison guard we had what we called a reception cell block. All new prisoners stayed there until they could be evaluated and then moved to medium or to maximum security. The one morning I had a prisoner attempt to kill me it was in the reception cell block, needless to say that prisoner went to maximum security.

Never trust anyone on first blush. Even your own blood could become your worst liability after several months in a tense situation. As far as dropping them before they see you/meet you, that's just not by the rules unless you know they are a stone cold killer.
 

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I would send them on there way. Because one or two of them the word would get around if you need something to eat go here they are giving hand outs.
Like during the depression the Tramps would a mark on a gate or something another tramp would recognize. First thing you know your out of food and your traveling around looking for a hand out your Kids crying I'm hungry.
Not me no hand outs move along or I'll move you!
 

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I as watching 'The First 48' one night and they had a case where a woman shot to death right ouside her place of employment. The detectives watched the security camera feeds and saw a young man enter the building. He was not dressed like a gang banger, he did not have tattoos all over his face. He looked like any other young man. He took the elevator up to the fourth floor, went into a random office and asked where the restroom was. He was shown where it was and he was then seen on camera going into the restroom. He came out a short time later and went back to the elevator. The elevator camera showed a woman with a bookbag getting into the elevator and going down the elevator with the young man. They both stepped out of the elevator and walked out the front door. Just before they were out of the camera's range the young man pulled out a gun and shot the woman in the head.

When he was caught later he said that he just went into places and scoped them out to see if there was anything worth stealing. If there wasn't, he left. He said he saw the woman's bookbag and thought it had a laptop computer in it so he shot her in the head to steal the bag, but her body fell over the bag so he couldn't get it.

If you look at the camera pictures all you see is some young man. He looks perfectly normal, right up until he pulls the gun out of his pocket and shoots the woman in the head. Not all predators where black and look evil.

Ted Bundy was a hansom young man who woman claimed they trusted. We all can see in hindsight that this was foolish. Hindsight is twenty/twenty.

So, my question is, how do you know that this nice person who smiles as they appoach you isn't going to pull out his gun when your guard is down? Or are most people here different from me and know their head and their loved ones heads are bullet proof?

I am sorry for those who simply didn't know enough to prepare themselves for the world to change. I wish I had the ability to a) take care of them all and b) trust them all. I don't have either of those abilities though. I know the people from this area and plan on helping them the best I can. I have done this in every natural disaster. As a school nurse I am friends with most of the parents of the kids. If something were to happen I plan on sending my child home with the neighbor children so that he can be protected by the neighbors while I stay and help those in town the best I can with my nursing training.

If, however, someone I don't know comes on my land where I, a single woman and her son, live alone, there is a good chance that I won't take the chance that Ted Bundy is standing in my woods. Or that this young man who looks normal won't shoot me in the head for whatever I am carrying. On another thread many of the people who claim they are going to trespass in a SHTF situation spent much of their time threatening the landowners, saying that they were better at killing than the landowners. How do I know that the person trespassing on my land isn't one of those?

I'm going to use every advantage I have to survive. The element of surprise is probably going to be my greatest advantage. If I give them a warning, I lose that advantage. Strangers that I do not know may not be given the same curtesy as the people in the area. Not because I am blood thirsty, but because I'm afraid we don't all come with a sound track that lets others know if we are just some good guy passing through or if we are able to rationalize stealing and killing others to get what we want or if we are truly sick individuals. Until God starts putting up some sort of sign that lets me know at a distance who is good and who is bad, I will use the brain he gave me to defend myself and my son.

Maybe men and women see this differently. Women have had to protect themselves from so much. Men talk about gettin ginto fights and how they kicked this or that guy's a$$. Women worry about being robbed, attacked, killed and raped. While I know men can be raped I don't think it is something they worry about quite as much as women do, or maybe I am mistaken there.

I really ache inside to imagine a situation where I could have protected my son but chose to give charity to a stranger that ended up hurting my child. It would kill me to know that I could have save my child that pain by taking on the horrible sin of killing on my own shoulders to spare him any pain. I look at my son's face and I never want him to fall to any harm by a stranger, especially one that I could have protected him from. When a person has a child that they love, they understand this.

I would spend eternity in hell to save my boy from pain. I am sorry, but this is the way I feel. I can't imagine anyone being able to say anything that would make me choose a stranger over my child.

blt
OMG you think just like I do!!!!

I can not trust someone I don't know because of all I know people are capable of. How could anyone put there trust in a stranger they met trespassing on there property and take them in or just send them happily on there way with a full belly and the knowledge that there is food and shelter for the taking? How nieve has this country become, we do not live in the days when you trust the people you met out and about- those days are long gone. I may seam callious and evil but I am just doing what I think will be the best for my family, I will not have the luxery to take in and trust someone-just not in my nature.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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im going to stress again the need to network and bond with a group of people you can rely on. because even if we know each other on the board- if we dont know each other IRL we have no reason to trust one one another if life and death is on the line...
 

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Wide awake
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I'm not planning on advertising my preps, but if I have the means and opportunity to prevent someone from starving I will. There are a few conditions:

-I am not prepared to let strangers cohabitate with my family. That is completely unsafe. My first priority is to protect family.
-I will not divide my family's one-year supply of food eighty ways. We'd all be out of food in less than a week. My family would then starve along with those I was trying to help.
-I will not assist someone who is forfeiting the opportunity to work/provide for him-/herself.

__________________________________________

"Civilize the mind, but make savage the body."
 
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