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What happens when you put too many oxygen absorbers in mylar bags?

What happens when you put a large oxygen absorber in a small mylar bag?

Do I really need to order 500cc and 2000cc for small and large bags?

I am sitting here looking at the options for oxygen absorbers, and I am thinking, why does this have to be so complicated? Why can't I just buy a 2000cc O2 absorber and use it for everything?
 

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My Temperature is Right
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Nothing major would happen. The O2 absorber would react until the O2 was gone then get cool. Just make sure your O2 absorber is oversize and you'll be good.
 

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Kev, think of it the way you do #10 Cans. The Mormons put two OA in a can for pretty much everything. (obviously aside from sugars and such) So if you are using the same size bag, then no matter what your preserving, it's pretty uniform.

Do you have a used empty #10 Can? Measure out your foods, and go accordingly.

I hope that helps. Personally, I don't use Mylar bags. If I can ever find mine I'm sending them to a Forum friend who keeps wondering if I forgotten about him. Vincent, my wife said she put them away some where.... I have 4 storage buildings, a house, and a work shop... she probably threw them away, or at least that's what I will assume unless they land in my lap one day. :D:
 
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Be careful! You might rip a hole in the space-time continuum! :)

Seriously, it shouldn't matter. After it has gotten the oxygen level to its lowest possible point, nothing too interesting will happen. It might actually be able to absorb whatever extra o2 is given off by the product you are storing, if thats at all possible.
 

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Okay, I'm a vacuum engineer and I'll weigh in on this one. I'm not sure exactly what pressure (I googled the crud out of it) that a vacuum sealer can achieve. I'm guessing approximately 1 - 10 Torr. There are 760 Torr in an atmosphere. That being said, if a vacuum sealer can indeed pump to 1 Torr, then you have effectively removed 99.86% of the gas within the bag.

That being said, you still have 1x10^16 molecules of gas within that bag. That's a huge amount of molecules. However, if you remember Avogadro's number 6.02x10^23, this is the number of molecules in one mole of gas. Given the ideal gas law states that....okay, screw all of that...

Since you vacuum sealed your mylar bag, you reduced the number of molecules by a factor of 10 million, and remember Oxygen only accounts for about 21% of atmosphere. All that being said, I said put in a couple of O2 absorbers and not worry about it.

If we could find out the rate of absorption by the O2 absorbers, then I could calculate exactly how many you need for a given volume.
 

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I don't think it would matter either, I do tend to go over-board with the pasta because of all the space better the noodles.

I do know the the Mormons have done lot's of research in this area and their results have always been encouraging to read about.

IIRC, they keep increasing the time the food is good for as time goes by.


(It will be intersting to see what MikeK has to say about the subject)
 

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I am sitting here looking at the options for oxygen absorbers, and I am thinking, why does this have to be so complicated? Why can't I just buy a 2000cc O2 absorber and use it for everything?
You can. It's a little wasteful since the excess capacity won't be used. But there's no drawback to doing that. When the O2 level reaches the minimum that the absorber can remove, it just shuts down.

I'm of the mindset that it's better to have more absorber than needed simply because it's hard for the layman to estimate how much actual gas is in the bag (or can) because of the different products we store. Some, like macaroni for example, have a lot of airspace. Fluffy powders such as potato flakes have a lot of air space too, but it's not as obvious as the macaroni example.

It's easier to just put more absorber than we need, to make sure we have enough capacity to remove as much O2 as possible.
 

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You can. It's a little wasteful since the excess capacity won't be used. But there's no drawback to doing that. When the O2 level reaches the minimum that the absorber can remove, it just shuts down.

I'm of the mindset that it's better to have more absorber than needed simply because it's hard for the layman to estimate how much actual gas is in the bag (or can) because of the different products we store. Some, like macaroni for example, have a lot of airspace. Fluffy powders such as potato flakes have a lot of air space too, but it's not as obvious as the macaroni example.

It's easier to just put more absorber than we need, to make sure we have enough capacity to remove as much O2 as possible.
Okay...now I feel better!

I never knew that there was ever an issue of over-loading the 02's. Everytime I plan to pack 10-15 buckets I always order brand new fresh 02's. There are plenty of things to pinch pennies with but this one I have always thought better safe than sorry!
 

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There are plenty of things to pinch pennies with but this one I have always thought better safe than sorry!
That is what I was thinking last night. After this thread was posted I ordered a 10 pack of 2,000cc O2 absorbers.

The other night I probably spent 2 - 3 hours sealing bags. I think I would rather do 30 minutes - 1 hour at a time, instead of 2 or 3 hours. So I only ordered 10 for my next project.



You can. It's a little wasteful since the excess capacity won't be used. But there's no drawback to doing that. When the O2 level reaches the minimum that the absorber can remove, it just shuts down.
Thank you.
 

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What happens when you put too many oxygen absorbers in mylar bags?

What happens when you put a large oxygen absorber in a small mylar bag?
It could suck the oxygen out so hard that it would turn the bag inside out. It would then begin removing oxygen from the atmosphere. Then you will be in big trouble with Al Gore. He taxes people for such acts.:xeye:
 

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Okay...now I feel better!

I never knew that there was ever an issue of over-loading the 02's. Everytime I plan to pack 10-15 buckets I always order brand new fresh 02's. There are plenty of things to pinch pennies with but this one I have always thought better safe than sorry!
I'm the same way. Food storage is too important to try and save a buck or two on. That's why I keep trying to get people to just follow the way the food storage companies are doing it. Rather than improvising new ways like using hand warmers or trying to vacuum seal mylar or something. There isn't enough money saved to justify the risk. I've always believed in an ounce of prevention.

That is what I was thinking last night. After this thread was posted I ordered a 10 pack of 2,000cc O2 absorbers.

The other night I probably spent 2 - 3 hours sealing bags. I think I would rather do 30 minutes - 1 hour at a time, instead of 2 or 3 hours. So I only ordered 10 for my next project.
I started off buying them in bulk and sealing the leftovers till the next time. But I've become leary of that and I do just like you now. I order only what I'm going to be needing for the next packing session.
 

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I'll tell you guys what I can do:

I have some mylar bags here at the house. I can place an atmosphere of helium within the bag, seal it, and then I can "sniff" the bag with a Mass Spectrometer Leak Detector. A sniffer probe has 1.0E-5 Torr-l/sec sensitivity. What does that mean? The bag leaks .00001 Torr-liters per second. What does that mean: A 1.0E-5 leak will leak 1 cc of gas in 28 hours. Since we are talking log scale, a 1.0E-6 leak will leak that same cc in 11.5 DAYS.

I'm figuring that a mylar bag will have a low enough leak rate that a sniffer probe probably can't detect the leak rate. I may then place the bag of helium into a chamber and run a Residual Gas Analysis (RGA) scan and see the partial pressure of helium. I can then convert that to a leak rate.

What will this tell us? This will tell us how much gas we are actually leaking into the bags over time. I think this is probably a bigger issue than the absorption rate of O2 absorbers.
 

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Check this out: http://www.captaindaves.com/foodfaq/ff17-oxy.htm#Oxygen

Still thinking through this one...
Keep in mind that the info at that link is from one of many versions of the misc.survivalism newsgroup food storage FAQ compiled by Alan T. Hagan. We were all working on gathering information for it and it was updated as new information came out. Some of the versions I've seen online contained information that is long outdated. I've seen versions recommending using dessicant and O2 absorbers together or vacuum sealing and using O2 absorbers. Both of which the O2 absorber manufacturer said not to do. Later versions of the FAQ were updated to include the new data.

Since then, even more information has come out. For example, dessicants can be used with O2 absorbers, but not on top of the food with them. The dessicant has to be placed on the bottom of the bag, then the food, then the O2 absorber. So that the O2 absorber can finish it's job before the dessicant dries out the moisture in it.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that the food storage FAQ hasn't been updated in about 13-14 years or so and a lot of new things have been learned since. And some of the versions posted online are even older versions that contained known errors that were updated later. So always double check info.
 

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Okay, I'm a vacuum engineer and I'll weigh in on this one. I'm not sure exactly what pressure (I googled the crud out of it) that a vacuum sealer can achieve. I'm guessing approximately 1 - 10 Torr. There are 760 Torr in an atmosphere. That being said, if a vacuum sealer can indeed pump to 1 Torr, then you have effectively removed 99.86% of the gas within the bag.

That being said, you still have 1x10^16 molecules of gas within that bag. That's a huge amount of molecules. However, if you remember Avogadro's number 6.02x10^23, this is the number of molecules in one mole of gas. Given the ideal gas law states that....okay, screw all of that...

Since you vacuum sealed your mylar bag, you reduced the number of molecules by a factor of 10 million, and remember Oxygen only accounts for about 21% of atmosphere. All that being said, I said put in a couple of O2 absorbers and not worry about it.

If we could find out the rate of absorption by the O2 absorbers, then I could calculate exactly how many you need for a given volume.
I was just looking at some sealers from a vendor on this site and this is part of the description of one of the commercial sealers. Their $100 model does not have the vacuum specs on it so I imagine all the sealers we all have are a bit less than the commercial models.

In addition, our chamber machine can reach a higher level of vacuum than other vacuum packaging machines. Our VP210 is able to obtain a 27ï ½hg - 29ï ½hg level of vacuum, while other suction machines are only able to obtain a 24½hg - 26½hg level of vacuum.
 

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I was just looking at some sealers from a vendor on this site and this is part of the description of one of the commercial sealers. Their $100 model does not have the vacuum specs on it so I imagine all the sealers we all have are a bit less than the commercial models.

In addition, our chamber machine can reach a higher level of vacuum than other vacuum packaging machines. Our VP210 is able to obtain a 27ï ½hg - 29ï ½hg level of vacuum, while other suction machines are only able to obtain a 24½hg - 26½hg level of vacuum.
They are saying most commercial units pull about 700 Torr, I doubt most foodsavers do near that, but then again I've never put a vacuum gage on mine.
 

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Okay, I'm a vacuum engineer and I'll weigh in on this one. I'm not sure exactly what pressure (I googled the crud out of it) that a vacuum sealer can achieve. I'm guessing approximately 1 - 10 Torr. There are 760 Torr in an atmosphere. That being said, if a vacuum sealer can indeed pump to 1 Torr, then you have effectively removed 99.86% of the gas within the bag.

That being said, you still have 1x10^16 molecules of gas within that bag. That's a huge amount of molecules. However, if you remember Avogadro's number 6.02x10^23, this is the number of molecules in one mole of gas. Given the ideal gas law states that....okay, screw all of that...

Since you vacuum sealed your mylar bag, you reduced the number of molecules by a factor of 10 million, and remember Oxygen only accounts for about 21% of atmosphere. All that being said, I said put in a couple of O2 absorbers and not worry about it.

If we could find out the rate of absorption by the O2 absorbers, then I could calculate exactly how many you need for a given volume.

Gonna debate you on this one, (over a coffee or a beer, this is friendly). Take a look at your last statement there and consider if you want to rephrase that. I don't immediately see how absorption rate is determined by volume. Let me make the claim that absorber size is determined by volume, does that make more sense to you?
Am I missing something here?
 
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