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Indefatigable
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It's about to get worse in my part of the country. We already had a 14 day run of 100+ temps in OK and they say we will break the record again before the summer is over. Shelters are at full capacity and still threre are families on the streets. The library is jammed. Not only does it effect the homeless, but the elderly and those with medical conditions. EMS is going to be overloaded soon, I have seen it happen before here. School is not in session - why not open the gyms - at least in the day, to give people a place to cool off - and what about a church basement? So far, no one has offered those solutions. I know there are other states experiencing the same - how is it being handled where you live?
 

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What would Mal do
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I'm not sure I understand a large portion of the people in this story.

I have personally experienced the living out of a tent/sleeping in the car thing...many years ago my wife and I made the choice to make a hard move to another state for work and the first few weeks the best we could do was our tent at a campground and I even rode my bike 12 miles each way most days so that she would have our car and to also save gas...it was a hard move for us, but it got us to a better place.

that said I have 4 adult kids now, all married..most with young children of their own. if it gets so bad that they can't pay their mortgage or rent, then they know to come back home either here or to the inlaw parents...you don't stay on the street!

if I were to loose my home I'd expect to be able to go to one of them for shelter...
I can imagine some of these people in the story do not have living parents or close family, but, no-one?! is there not an aunt, a sister, anyone to get the kids off the street?

I have a multi-tier fallback plan that if I were to loose my ability to make my mortgage happen, then I have a small house in another city that is debt free..inheritance from family. But before I got that house, my fallback plan was my travel trailer..granted you need a place to park it and that can cost money but a family member's driveway? there are 3 walmarts in 20 mins drive from me and a Fly J truck stop with a dump station...membership charges me $3 to dump there....there's just got to be options beyond sleeping a family of 5 in a 1990 chevy.

but i think the real story is that people didn't see it coming..like the one lady in the story...it took them by surprise, they are in shock and the result is they are lost on the street..and yes, there is no room for them on most city /town streets...this is going to get a lot uglier .
 

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Happy to be here!
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I'm skeptical of the numbers. While I'm sure there are some hard working families that are really up against it right now, my personal observations say alot of those homeless are xani/crack/meth- heads, alcoholics, mentally ill, ect. They aren't homeless and without resources solely because of hard economic times, but rather due to their own poor life choices and/or mental handicaps. I know times are hard, I just don't think we're to that point yet, and the article is a stretch.
 

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Certified Organic Grower
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At the request of an inner city group of folks trying to start up farming in their community, I agreed to meet up twice a month, approx halfway the distance from one another. There was a plot of county land right next to the freeway exit, and a sort of "farmers market" was sprouting up. Two Fridays a month. This trip would take all of my day, and could have easily included an overnight stay somewhere. But there was no way I'd kill the engine until I reach home... city stuff ain't fer me.

Every time I would show up and set up for sales/teaching, there would be a car or two parked with signs of overnight stays. The folks there were not waiting for the farmer's market/workshop. Business was good, but I always wondered about those folks.
After a couple of months, I started to leave a few goodies for them. There were only a few, and they were grateful for the help.

Since April of this year I noticed that the "car folks" were starting to take over half the space in this turnout. The folks that were bused in from the city for the workshop would fill out the rest of the entire space. The reason for the city folks coming to the area (workshop) was becoming more and more disrupted by the car folks wanting handouts.
It was one thing to hand out goodies to some, but the numbers were really growing.

In the end, the city folks and I had to end the effort because of the logistics involved, and the change in the atmosphere at the turnout.
The aggression level was rising.

One thing did come to mind with both my experience and the link in this OP...
Looks like the working class (once unemployed) gets tossed out in the street BEFORE the entitlement crowd.
Without section 8, food stamps, welfare, ect... you are out in the street first.
 

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It is interesting to me the difference in perspective of living in a car or a tent.


After my mom and sister died my dad was raising a 3 yr old and a 2 yr old boys by himself as a migrant ranch hand. We spent much of our time living in our truck, cowboy camp and logging camps. In the 42 years of my life that was the best time of my life I felt completely free. Even considering how sad we all were, the three of us would cry ourselves to sleep nearly every night, it still seems like the best period of my life. Having lived that way as a child I did not see where it was neccesary to have a house.

As an adult I have lived in my truck many times, sometimes as a way of life, sometimes to save money and other times for logging jobs. Now I have 5 children I am raising and I have a house, I wanted a steady place for them to grow up in, and the law says that you must have a house for your children.

If I had to though, I could raise them out of a truck or a trailer and we would get on quite well, other than possible legal issues anyway.

I can, after reading many articles see that it is a very different experience for most others who wind up in this position. I think one thing any of these people could do, is get the heck away from any city into a more rural environment, where the people view life a bit differently.


I still look back and remember waking in the morning looking out the window and watching deer peacefully munching just a ways from the truck, dad breaking out a can of beans for each us for breakfast, using the sideboards on the truck to get into the back to eat our bean breakfast, surrounded by trees, nature, life, and each other. How many people have ever been truly free, even as a child? I feel blessed having had that life.
 

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Homesteader
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The part I also found disturbing is how the cops, harrass and confiscate and destroy what few possessions they have left in order to make them move on...And how they are under threat from child welfare to confiscate their children. Poverty has become a crime and the paid thugs seem to enjoy putting the boots in when people are down and out.
 

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Happy to be here!
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The part I also found disturbing is how the cops, harass and confiscate and destroy what few possessions they have left in order to make them move on...And how they are under threat from child welfare to confiscate their children. Poverty has become a crime and the paid thugs seem to enjoy putting the boots in when people are down and out.
Cops are paid thugs? They enjoy taking people's children and possessions away? Hey thanks for the heads up on that. It's good to know I'll morph into a flaming A-hole on Monday when I go back to work.

My experience has been that vagrants tend to squat on and literally crap up people's private property, causing the property owners to request assistance from the police to have them removed. You hear that right, people call for help from the police to remove vagrants from private property. They also tend to pan handle, drink, pass out, urinate, litter and generally smell funny while cursing and acting bizarre in public, also prompting business owners and passing persons to call the police to have them removed.

Sometimes the cops will find the vagrants have children who are neglected or living in dangerous conditions and they have to deal with that situation. We can't just walk away from that and hope it corrects itself. My experience is that the later is extremely rare situation and poverty doesn't constitute neglect by any state statute unless basic human needs aren't being met.

Again, my experience dealing with the homeless has always, yes always, yielded people who were alcoholics, drug addict, mentally ill, lazy and financially irresponsible, ect, to the point that their present living conditions make perfect since. Because of the afore mentioned facts, I generally don’t give money or assistance to vagrants or feel sad for them. I have yet to meet a hard working, drug free, respectable family of four living in a homeless camp. My county has about 500,000 residents.
 

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I'm skeptical of the numbers. While I'm sure there are some hard working families that are really up against it right now, my personal observations say alot of those homeless are xani/crack/meth- heads, alcoholics, mentally ill, ect. They aren't homeless and without resources solely because of hard economic times, but rather due to their own poor life choices and/or mental handicaps. I know times are hard, I just don't think we're to that point yet, and the article is a stretch.
The Economic Collapse Blog and its sister blog End of the American Dream seem to me to be doomer sites, mainly. They will say "Something Awful is COMING!" but won't go into advice on how to prep for it. If you take a look at the "bookstore", they tend to sell titles popular with fundamentalist Christians, the "I Spent 90 Minutes In Heaven" type stuff.

I have nothing against anybody practicing religion as they please-it's one of our most sacred rights-but some strains of Christianity out there seem, well, OVEREAGER for the Tribulation, so that Jesus can arrive and make heaven on earth. Also, they seem to need a lot of confirmation for their beliefs, thus the micro-cults around people who claim to have been to Heaven, etc.

I always thought that faith didn't require "proof", because it's a matter of belief, either you believe or you don't, but some people don't seem to think that faith is enough, making me wonder just how strong their faith is. I have a feeling that for some these blogs exist to "confirm" that we are in the Tribulation and that Jesus is coming soon. I think that some people need to not rely on "proof" for things unprovable. I think that these blogs are pandering to an audience, and that the audience isn't necessarily sober survivalists.
 

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Cops are paid thugs? They enjoy taking people's children and possessions away? Hey thanks for the heads up on that. It's good to know I'll morph into a flaming A-hole on Monday when I go back to work.

My experience has been that vagrants tend to squat on and literally crap up people's private property, causing the property owners to request assistance from the police to have them removed. You hear that right, people call for help from the police to remove vagrants from private property. They also tend to pan handle, drink, pass out, urinate, litter and generally smell funny while cursing and acting bizarre in public, also prompting business owners and passing persons to call the police to have them removed.

Sometimes the cops will find the vagrants have children who are neglected or living in dangerous conditions and they have to deal with that situation. We can't just walk away from that and hope it corrects itself. My experience is that the later is extremely rare situation and poverty doesn't constitute neglect by any state statute unless basic human needs aren't being met.

Again, my experience dealing with the homeless has always, yes always, yielded people who were alcoholics, drug addict, mentally ill, lazy and financially irresponsible, ect, to the point that their present living conditions make perfect since. Because of the afore mentioned facts, I generally don’t give money or assistance to vagrants or feel sad for them. I have yet to meet a hard working, drug free, respectable family of four living in a homeless camp. My county has about 500,000 residents.
I have a feeling that most of the homeless who were sober, hardworking folks were simply financially lazy, peeing away money on "big boy toys" and various vices. They thought the party would never end. Shoulda listened to the pop singer Prince, in his song "1999": Life is just a party and parties weren't meant to last. If you live life as a party, don't be surprised to miss the boat taking you back, and having to pay for your recklessness. Stupid hurts, eventually. "Life is tough, but it is tougher if you are stupid." -John Wayne.

We once had institutions for those too crazy to provide for their own needs. I grew up with a bipolar father; such people wear on family members until many throw up their hands. As for winos and druggies, well we've always had such people and always will. If they are unwilling to shake the grip of addiction, tough. My grandfather quit cigarettes cold turkey after I was born. Left him with mild brain damage. But he had no regrets, because dying of COPD would have been much worse.
 

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Getting There.
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I found this story most disturbing especially because of the children. http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...n-their-cars-in-tent-cities-or-on-the-streets
It is what it is. If that's the way it's going to be in this country, that's the way it's going to be and if you find yourself destitute, you got no one to blame but yourself. I may sound like an A-hole saying it like that but even if something completely outside of your control leaves you living in a car, it's your own fault for not being prepared for it.

Not trying to judge anyone, it could very well happen to me with my current financial situation, and it would be nobody's fault but mine. It's not necessarily a bad thing either, as long as you could take care of yourself and your loved ones, but for people like this- people who don't know how to handle things outside of their realm of comfort- it could be a potentially devastating problem.

"Luck is the residue of design." -John Milton, author of Paradise Lost.

But hey, that's why we prep. :thumb:
 

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Just out of complete curiosity.... I see often the subject of being poor being a bad choice...

I raise five children, and have a paraplegic wife.

We spend around $250 a month on food, buying basic staple foods. We go out to eat approx 1 per year. We buy no preprepared food, we cook every meal due to the type of food we buy.

We spend around $50 a year on entertainment birthdays etc.

We spend around $200 a year on clothing, $400 a year on laundry.

We spend around $1,500 a year on animal feed, which also supplies us with food indirectly.

We spend around $600 a year on vehicle insurance, minimum liability, why pay comprhensive when you only have $200 invested in your rig.

We pay around $750 a year on electricity.

We use around 600 gallons of water a month on average for a cost of about $40 per month.

We use most extra money to help out those less fortunate than us around 2 to 3 thousand a year usually.

We commonly allow people to stay in our travel trailers out here to help them get back on their feet costing time and labor but usually not much money.

We spend around $40 to $50 dollars a year for our fire wood, mostly gas expenses.

We make our own dog and cat food for around $ $350 a year.

I build my animal buildings and pens out of old palletts and sawmill waste.

We have no loans or recurring expenses other than taxes, phone, electric etc.


Are we using what we have irresponsibly, are we a drag on the rest of those better off than us?

We have most certainly chosen to be where we are, we invested every dime we had into this place.

How does one exactly define responsible use of their money. I feel we are very responsible, but on the other side of the coin, some view us as incredibly irresponsible.

There are a lot of people that have been as responsible as you can be with their money and have still wound up homeless, that is not their irresponsibility in my opinion that is the irresponsible nature of the system that we live in. While this sytem works great for some it does not work for all, and it takes no genius to see this.

We tend to group all people in dire straights in the same group, this is innaccurate at best, some homeless are drunks or drug addicts, others are just unmotivated, while others still, have just found themselves in a situation that offers them no alternative.

I think the coming economic struggles may very well change the tune of some folks, when they have done all the right things and followed all the right rules and still find themselves destitute. How then will people view you, will they help you out when you are down or say "look at that scumbag dirtying up this place, we really need to do something about them". I would hope to be treated as I have treated others in that situation, would you?
 

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As soon as the Democrats get out of the way we can get the economy rolling and this folks can go back to work.
Unfortunately....the dumbocraps arent leaving anytime soon,although I surely wish they would.
I'd even venture to say that OBONGO gets re elected.....with 47% of the country not paying any taxes they are going to vote for the guy providing them with their entitlements and 1 out of six americans on food stamps....and the list goes on.
 

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...this is going to get a lot uglier... .
That pretty well says it all.

...One thing did come to mind with both my experience and the link in this OP...
Looks like the working class (once unemployed) gets tossed out in the street BEFORE the entitlement crowd.
Without section 8, food stamps, welfare, ect... you are out in the street first.
That is a valid observation, too, and makes this thread considerably more congent than most.

The part I also found disturbing is how the cops, harrass and confiscate and destroy what few possessions they have left in order to make them move on...And how they are under threat from child welfare to confiscate their children. Poverty has become a crime and the paid thugs seem to enjoy putting the boots in when people are down and out.
Another ugly truth. And those folks who were working-class are going to resent it. The blue-collar folks already have a less than stellar appreciation for law enforcement types, and putting them in this kind of pressure cooker is going to make for a more violent kind of confrontation than would have been feasible when they had a job to lose.

....We tend to group all people in dire straights in the same group, this is innaccurate at best, some homeless are drunks or drug addicts, others are just unmotivated, while others still, have just found themselves in a situation that offers them no alternative.

I think the coming economic struggles may very well change the tune of some folks, when they have done all the right things and followed all the right rules and still find themselves destitute. How then will people view you, will they help you out when you are down or say "look at that scumbag dirtying up this place, we really need to do something about them". I would hope to be treated as I have treated others in that situation, would you?
Mountain, as usual, you have cut to the heart of the matter. Thank you.
 

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-.-. --.-
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I have a camper van I sleep in. I could have stayed in university housing, but the camper van is SO much cheaper and I don't have to worry about annoying room mates. The van was $1200, I park it near the school and use power from a public park (extension cord). I honestly "have it made" when I'm at school... I also work from it, so it's my "home" office.

Why do I do this? Simple - I want to save every cent I can for post graduation. I'm in the market for a motorcycle for commuting and to go home with (60mpg is better than 17 :) ).

I know this is borderline relevant to the subject. My purpose in bringing it up is that not all of the tent and car folk are doing it because they have to, some of us do it because we are masochistic.
 

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Survivus most anythingus
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Cops are paid thugs?
Yeah, some of them are. Most of them are not. Just like every other job or profession.

They enjoy taking people's children and possessions away?
It was stated that it was to get them to move along, the destruction of private property. There is a YouTube video of Police Officers in your State of Florida taking razor knives to homeless people's tents, believe it or not.



How can it possibly be justified to not only destroy someone's private property under the color of law but to destroy their very shelter?

I'm sorry if you feel as though condemning the actions of some in law enforcement is an assault on you. I have had a lot of friends in law enforcement because of past employment I have had and as a whole, good people, but just incredibly hypersensitive to any criticism of their profession whatsoever.

Hey thanks for the heads up on that. It's good to know I'll morph into a flaming A-hole on Monday when I go back to work.
Well, let's hope not. :)
 
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