[Freethinkin'Man]

A bit over two years ago I wrote this thread re: the Boy Scouts. But after they filed for bankruptcy given all the scandals that plagued this once great organization, I've decided to skip it.

There are secular and faith-based options out there. Has anyone had their sons in any of them? Good, bad?

Alert Cadet - a father-son group

AWANA - youth discipleship

Contenders of the Faith/Keepers of the Faith - a conservative evangelical group

Pathfinders - another Christian-based group

Trail Life - also Christian based, aims to help boys become "men of faith and character who will become godly husbands, fathers, and citizens."

Squad STX - boys' camping

AND ALSO... did you enroll your son/sons in martial arts, not only for self-defense but for fitness, discipline, etc? If yes, at what age did you enroll your son? Did he keep it up into young adulthood? What were the positive results of your son's participation in martial arts?

 

[Trip Wire]

Sure was good to grow up in real America.
Our boy scouts had men running the thing. We even shot guns in the basement of the church we did scouts in.

My grandson (20) did not get any of this. All he had was grandpa to guide him along. (dad was a drugie) He did not turn out too bad. He is in the Marines making a lifer out of himself. Like his grand dad, great uncle, great grand father, and great, great grand father before him.

My job is over, and I can now die in peace knowing that the only remaining man with my last name will carry on our family tradition. :thumb:

Young Fathers do not be a Gillette father, be real. Build men for your family not meows.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I guess my son's Scout Troop is an anomaly. He just turned 14 and will be Life in May.

We are planning 3 or 4 separate Utah desert wilderness trips for Spring Break next month, from Level I basic backpacking through a Level IV trip requiring significant mountaineering rope work to complete the route. Last year we ran our own week long summer camp, and send Scouts at least one High Adventure trip (Alaska, Boundary Waters, Scuba Diving, etc.) per year.

Most of our older Scouts have earned both rifle and shotgun MBs.

We have a Troop alumnist who recently climbed Everest carrying a small BSA flag signed by current Scouts. We have alumni serving in several branches of the military and recent Eagles at the service academies. We have just as many registered adult leaders as Scouts (70+), with over 20 having significant outdoor experience that is shared in-depth with the Scouts. We average 3 to 5 Eagles per year.

Want a great experience in Scouts? Quit complaining and make your own Troop better. Are you able to lead a group of 12 - 15 year olds on a 5 day 30 mile backpack trip (no resupply, no vehicles, satellite coms only) in Utah canyon country (or your local equivalent)? If you are physically able and the answer is no, then you are part of why Scouts is having issues.

Getting butt hurt about BSA corporate is a crutch.

 

[Freethinkin'Man]

I guess my son's Scout Troop is an anomaly. He just turned 14 and will be Life in May.

We are planning 3 or 4 separate Utah desert wilderness trips for Spring Break next month, from Level I basic backpacking through a Level IV trip requiring significant mountaineering rope work to complete the route. Last year we ran our own week long summer camp, and send Scouts at least one High Adventure trip (Alaska, Boundary Waters, Scuba Diving, etc.) per year.

Most of our older Scouts have earned both rifle and shotgun MBs.

We have a Troop alumnist who has climbed Everest carrying a small BSA flag signed by current Scouts. We have alumni serving in several branches of the military and recent Eagles at the service academies. We have just as many registered adult leaders as Scouts (70+), with over 20 having significant outdoor experience that is shared in-depth with the Scouts. We average 3 to 5 Eagles per year.

Want a great experience in Scouts? Quit complaining and make your own Troop better. Are you able to lead a group of 12 - 15 year olds on a 5 day 30 mile backpack trip (no resupply, no vehicles, satellite coms only) in Utah canyon country (or your local equivalent)? If you are physically able and the answer is no, then you are part of why Scouts is having issues.

Getting butt hurt about BSA corporate is a crutch.

Your kid is 14? Cool! Only a decade and change before my son gets there... nice your son has a good troop. I hope I find a good one for my son, whether Boy Scouts or another group (although given my own convictions I'd rather he join, when the time is right, a troop which has old-fashioned and conservative values about boyhood and manhood).

Best to your son as he aspires to be a Lifer this May.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Your kid is 14? Cool! Only a decade and change before my son gets there... nice your son has a good troop. I hope I find a good one for my son, whether Boy Scouts or another group (although given my own convictions I'd rather he join, when the time is right, a troop which has old-fashioned and conservative values about boyhood and manhood).

Best to your son as he aspires to be a Lifer this May.

I hope I didn't come across as a jerk, but the volumes of material on how much BSA currently sucks is very tiresome, most of it by people who have no current ties to the organization, and offer nothing productive except curmudgeonry.

According to many people on this board, today's Scouting consists sitting around a simulated campfire and painting each other's toenails while being told how special they are- in our Troop, the truth couldn't be more opposite.

I hope you and your son are able to find something worthwhile, but at least checkout for yourself what is happening in your local Troops.

 

[Don H]

I am a Scoutmaster (also an Eagle Scout, earned in 1972), and have been for 13 years now, my son aged out years ago. My troop is all boys, our leaders are all men. We go camping each month. They go rock climbing, backpacking, canoeing, etc. They learn Scout skills like reading a map and compass, campfire building and cooking, knots and lashing, first aid, leadership, etc.

All Scouting is local, there are plenty of troops out there who do what we do but many do not. The program is good, how its administered depends on the leadership.

I disagree with most of the recent decisions BSA has made over the last few years but they do not effect my program, only I have the power over that.

 

[Freethinkin'Man]

I hope I didn't come across as a jerk, but the volumes of material on how much BSA currently sucks is very tiresome, most of it by people who have no current ties to the organization, and offer nothing productive except curmudgeonry.

According to many people on this board, today's Scouting consists sitting around a simulated campfire and painting each other's toenails while being told how special they are- in our Troop, the truth couldn't be more opposite.

I hope you and your son are able to find something worthwhile, but at least checkout for yourself what is happening in your local Troops.

You did, but it's irrelevant. You are a person with a son and experience in the Boy Scouts, and people speaking ill of a group you evidently are biased towards got to you.

This world is sicker, uglier, and more perverted and depraved every day, with a declared ******** running for president encouraging a 9-year-old boy to declare to the whole world, during a campaign event, that he's a member of the alternative lifestyle movement. Boys are ridiculed in school (not overtly) by liberal teachers who want to feminize boys. When they are older their parents must warn them that there are girls out there who will thoughtlessly concoct lies about rape which can destroy reputations and careers.

In many jurisdictions, a father using physical force to defend his family or to immobilize a would-be molester/rapist is deemed a felon.

I'm increasingly repulsed by the amoral zeitgeist of this age, which tells me I have male privilege and men are oppressors and women must always be believed. Every single horrible case of injustice against innocent men, from Brett Kavanaugh and Nicholas Sandmann to the various men who have been thrown into prison by false accusations levied by evil women, are things I always notice and keep in mind as I raise my son.

Therefore, some guy online coming across as a jerk is not that much of a big deal. You've done well for your son, I'm sure - I hope that whether with a BSA Troop or another group or whatever means, I do well for mine.

 

[Freethinkin'Man]

I am a Scoutmaster (also an Eagle Scout, earned in 1972), and have been for 13 years now, my son aged out years ago. My troop is all boys, our leaders are all men. We go camping each month. They go rock climbing, backpacking, canoeing, etc. They learn Scout skills like reading a map and compass, campfire building and cooking, knots and lashing, first aid, leadership, etc.

All Scouting is local, there are plenty of troops out there who do what we do but many do not. The program is good, how its administered depends on the leadership.

I disagree with most of the recent decisions BSA has made over the last few years but they do not effect my program, only I have the power over that.

This may sound like an ignorant question, so please do extend me some latitude... let's say I find a local Troop which seems solid. But what if I want to participate in the first several events - not only for me to be doubly sure it's a safe Troop but because perhaps I as a middle-aged man who never Scouted might learn something AND bond with my son? Does BSA permit this?

 

[Don H]

Good question.

Yes. This is perfectly understandable and happens often. Parents are never prohibited from attending or observing any part of the program.

I met three new Scouts and their parents last Saturday at a Cub Scout Blue and Gold dinner where they were graduating and moving on to Troops. The parents were all invited to attend camping trips. I hope some become Assistant Scoutmasters!

A typical camping trip for us would have 25 scouts and 12 adults attending. Don't tell anyone but the adults have as much fun as the scouts.

 

[.455_Hunter]

You did, but it's irrelevant. You are a person with a son and experience in the Boy Scouts, and people speaking ill of a group you evidently are biased towards got to you.

This world is sicker, uglier, and more perverted and depraved every day, with a declared ******** running for president encouraging a 9-year-old boy to declare to the whole world, during a campaign event, that he's a member of the alternative lifestyle movement. Boys are ridiculed in school (not overtly) by liberal teachers who want to feminize boys. When they are older their parents must warn them that there are girls out there who will thoughtlessly concoct lies about rape which can destroy reputations and careers.

In many jurisdictions, a father using physical force to defend his family or to immobilize a would-be molester/rapist is deemed a felon.

I'm increasingly repulsed by the amoral zeitgeist of this age, which tells me I have male privilege and men are oppressors and women must always be believed. Every single horrible case of injustice against innocent men, from Brett Kavanaugh and Nicholas Sandmann to the various men who have been thrown into prison by false accusations levied by evil women, are things I always notice and keep in mind as I raise my son.

Therefore, some guy online coming across as a jerk is not that much of a big deal. You've done well for your son, I'm sure - I hope that whether with a BSA Troop or another group or whatever means, I do well for mine.

That's fair. I am an Eagle Scout myself (1994), so ties to BSA go back a long time.

I am not a fan of many things BSA corporate have done, but as Don H says, 90% of what happens in your local Troop is controlled by local leadership.

Who knows what the long-term future is for Scouts, but quality Troops still exist and will continue to exist into at least the near future. Even with the current issues, the life skills being taught in the good Troops are critical to success, and being able to say "Eagle Scout" on your resume is still an important perk.

 

[SurvivalOfTheFit]

Maybe I'm old school but I never felt comfortable turning my two sons over to organizations in general. I've always had the luxury of having the time to mentor them myself. I made plenty of time to take them hunting, fishing, camping and plinking. The only organized activities I enrolled them in were little league baseball and karate (starting at age 5) and I made damn sure I was one of the coaches. Even back then (1990's) I was overly cautious in regards to my little ones.

Nowadays they would call someone like me a helicopter parent.

 

[Don H]

Maybe I'm old school but I never felt comfortable turning my two sons over to organizations in general. I've always had the luxury of having the time to mentor them myself. I made plenty of time to take them hunting, fishing, camping and plinking. The only organized activities I enrolled them in were little league baseball and karate (starting at age 5) and I made damn sure I was one of the coaches. Even back then (1990's) I was overly cautious in regards to my little ones.

Nowadays they would call someone like me a helicopter parent.

I know where you're coming from, I feel the same.
You could have been one of the scout leaders if you chose to. Many boys without a father figure in their life come to Scouting for that important male figure to learn from. These kids need guidance too.

 

[ebjr1967]

"Wherever you seek solitude, men will ferret you out and compel you to belong to their desperate company of oddfellows."

 

[PurpleKitty]

Martial arts do not make a good boy.

My stepbrother was always difficult with learning disabilities so they put him in karate to "teach him discipline". It did not work and he used to use what he learned when he was beating me.

I have a destroyed knee as a result. They also had him in cub scouts/boy scouts as well but it didn't stick.

If you are raising a quality young man it will show without the program, just my opinion. Track could be what he wants/needs, not just scouting or a similar program.