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Discussion Starter #1
IMHO the shotgun has no equal when it comes to dealing with most of the problems people will encounter.

Even though my agency issued Remington 870s I decided to buy my own Mossberg 590 and never looked back. The two main reasons were the ambi safety and the Ghost Ring sights. At the time we did not have any rifles so I saw the need to be able to reach out with slugs and felt comfortable doing so off hand out to 100 yards.

After being involved in a shooting with my shotgun I soon after added a Surefire forend. I think this should be the first thing you put on your shotgun if you want to add anything. It is costly and I believe worth every penny especially if used professionally or for home defense.

After seeing how 00 buck failed to penetrate heavy winter clothing I began loading only slugs and have buckshot and birdshot on the side saddle. The birdshot was for small critters I had to put down. On my SWAT vest I had bean bag rounds and breaching rounds. I did it all with one gun. This is not something I would advise for everyone or for an SOP but it worked for me on several occasions. The way I did it was to download all lethal ammo in front of the team leader, he checked the gun and I reloaded with bean bag rounds. This worked well during one situation in which I shot someone with a bean bag round. This just goes to show the versatility of the shotgun as a platform.

When I started at my agency we qualified with pistols out to 25 yards and with the shotgun using 00 Buck out to 15 yards. Then we were given four slugs to fire at 25 yards but the patrol shotguns you could draw out were only loaded with 00 Buck and no slugs were available. When I mentioned to the Chief that if I had to set up a perimeter past 15 yards I could only uses my pistol he gave me that Chief look and then allowed me to issue slugs to guys who had a clue.

The shotgun is like Daddy's tractor, very kewl, kinda scary and you don't really know what to do with it. But once you learn you develop a gear appreciation for it.

I will post some pics of my two HD shottys tomorrow but would like to mention one last thing about shotgun gear and that is slings. While doing the police thing I had a single points sling because it worked well with my nylon ninja stuff. Now that I am no longer a foot soldier in the war on crime I am back to use a good old fashioned two point sling, side mounted because of the light. As an instructor I believe this is the best option. One and three points slings for typical good guy use will only leave you with black and blue well you know, that shotgun bounces all over the place.
 

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Warning: EXPLOSIVE!
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Which 590's do you prefer. I thought about taking one of the 14" 590's home for myself... To match the 14" and 12.5" 870's... They swing so easy in the shoot house!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
YMMV but over all I felt that the 20 inch was best for capacity and accuracy and over time I got good not banging it around.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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I've given a lot of thought on what loads to keep where, and I have a bit of everything as well. I can store 40 shells in and on the gun thanks to a sidesaddle and a bandolier sling (which I carry tested during the Ike debacle), so I have a nice mix of buckshot, slug, and even some LTL rubber ball rounds and a couple flares
 

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Thanks for the info. I have not tried 00Buck beyond 15 yards and did not realize the damage is not fatal. I have a rifled Moss 500 for home defense and will now only keep slugs in the chamber. :thumb: Thanks for the write-up.

Moss 1.JPG
 

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After seeing how 00 buck failed to penetrate heavy winter clothing I began loading only slugs and have buckshot and birdshot on the side saddle.
Just curious what the circumstances where for this event... What kind of heavy clothing was the individual wearing, what brand of buckshot was used and at what range. Just curious how many layers one would have to wear to stop .32 cal shot moving at 1200fps at close range....thanks!
 

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Sweat more, bleed less!
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My biggest problem with carring a shotgun away from my home is the fact that ammo is so darn heavy and bulky, recoil, and loading takes a long time compared to a rifle. that cuppled with limited range and precision...it makes it deficult for me to grab as a primary.

I figure at any one time i can only carry a cupple hundred rounds and still be mobile.

At outside home, sure i'll grab it adn for indoors i'm sticking to a pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It was plain old Federal OO Buck at approx 7 yards. He was wearing a leather jacket over a jean jacket. I fired two controlled pairs and even after the last one with several rounds of 9MM and 40 it took him several minutes to expire.

This is why as a shooter and trainer I get so tired of people talking about 45 this or 357 that. According to popular gun store wisdom anyone shot with OO Buck should burst into flames. That is BS.

On average you can expect one inch of spread for every foot of distance from the target. I use to run a stress course where guys would have to pick up a shotty loaded with OO Buck that was laying 50 yards from a target and told to engage the targets when they thought they could. You guessed, with the stress all kinds of shots from 50 yards with OO Buck. Explain that to a grand jury.

During a shooting judging distance is hard. When I went back to the scene I thought I was about 3 times as far away as I was during the initial encounter in which I fired one round of 9MM 147 grn Hi Shok that expanded in his clothes. The shotgun part was a second encounter about 10 minutes later.
 

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It was plain old Federal OO Buck at approx 7 yards. He was wearing a leather jacket over a jean jacket. I fired two controlled pairs and even after the last one with several rounds of 9MM and 40 it took him several minutes to expire.

This is why as a shooter and trainer I get so tired of people talking about 45 this or 357 that. According to popular gun store wisdom anyone shot with OO Buck should burst into flames. That is BS.

On average you can expect one inch of spread for every foot of distance from the target. I use to run a stress course where guys would have to pick up a shotty loaded with OO Buck that was laying 50 yards from a target and told to engage the targets when they thought they could. You guessed, with the stress all kinds of shots from 50 yards with OO Buck. Explain that to a grand jury.

During a shooting judging distance is hard. When I went back to the scene I thought I was about 3 times as far away as I was during the initial encounter in which I fired one round of 9MM 147 grn Hi Shok that expanded in his clothes. The shotgun part was a second encounter about 10 minutes later.
Here's my question. Were you shooting the low recoil buckshot?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
True I just used the wording to differentiate between and SD shotgun and one for bird hunting even though the same shotty can do both jobs.
 

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Now days, in most states, you will be charged and found guilty for shooting a man at 50 yards. I see it everyday at the prison. I was talking to a guy yesterday thats in prison for 25 years for killing a man in his home, the robber had a knife and he had a gun.

I would highly recomend using less lethal rounds for the first two shots and 00 buck after that. its Much easer to justify that.

The person must have the intent AND the ability to harm yourself. If a person is comming at you in a vehicle and your armed, you shoot and kill him/her. Will that stand in court? no, most likely it will not. sad but true.
 

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on mythbusters they just did a bullettproof test using buckshot and slugs. while a slug penetrated more stuff. buckshot went through 14 pizzas and those hot bags the delivery guy keeps them in which is heavy nylon webbing and foil and straps. i dont think a jean jacket and a leather jacket qualifies as bulletproof.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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any particular reason they were shooting pizzas?
 

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i just came across a great video!


its boring at first but he has a great technique that i'm going to try out.
 

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It was plain old Federal OO Buck at approx 7 yards. He was wearing a leather jacket over a jean jacket. I fired two controlled pairs and even after the last one with several rounds of 9MM and 40 it took him several minutes to expire.

This is why as a shooter and trainer I get so tired of people talking about 45 this or 357 that. According to popular gun store wisdom anyone shot with OO Buck should burst into flames. That is BS.

On average you can expect one inch of spread for every foot of distance from the target. I use to run a stress course where guys would have to pick up a shotty loaded with OO Buck that was laying 50 yards from a target and told to engage the targets when they thought they could. You guessed, with the stress all kinds of shots from 50 yards with OO Buck. Explain that to a grand jury.

During a shooting judging distance is hard. When I went back to the scene I thought I was about 3 times as far away as I was during the initial encounter in which I fired one round of 9MM 147 grn Hi Shok that expanded in his clothes. The shotgun part was a second encounter about 10 minutes later.
I guess I am confused so correct me if I am wrong.... You (and at least one other officer with a .40 cal) fired on a suspect. You fired two controlled pairs and hit the suspect once (the 9mm round expanding in his clothes) and even after this encounter the suspect took several minutes to die. At this point you left the scene of the shooting for approx 10 minutes. Upon returning to the scene, you were not relieved by back up officers or removed from the scene by detectives / supervisors who would want to interview you and secure the scene. You equipped yourself with a 12 gauge shotgun (I am assuming 18 in barrel with no choke) and were put in a position where you had to fire on another suspect. This second shooting took place with standard 00 buck at approx 7 yards (nine .32 cal shot at approx 1200fps), however the shot was ineffective (did not penetrate the clothes hence not stopping the suspect from demonstrating threatening behavior) due to the fact that the suspect wore a leather jacket over a denim jacket. This accurate so far?
 
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