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How about this one? An autoloader that uses the big Glock mags and can swap back and forth between 9x19 and .40 S&W, or 10mm and .45 ACP.
 

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The Right of the People..
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Im sorry. I skipped a few pages. It was probably already mentioned but anyway.

I have a Taurus judge. It shoots both 45lc and 410 shotgun rounds. I feel this fits perfectly Into this discussion. Multi purpose. The long colts may ne hard to come by after TSHTF, but the 410 is pretty common and cheap to stock up on. Both have serious knockdown power and can be used for defense and for moderate hunting. Plus it is the concealed carry model and doesn't take up much room at all.

Now if I could only find some speed loaders for the dam thing...
 

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Pass the beans, please
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I only stock up on what I have a gun to fit. Man, you could have a box of everything and someone would still show up with something you never planned for. I keep .22 short and long, .22 magnum, .357 magnum, 9MM, .45 ACP and the odd .44 magnum on hand. I just hope that I have enough for me, much less others.

This question you pose is a tough one that's for sure!

Oh yeah, don't forget Your Other Guns.;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IbPE8l1Qqg

I don't care who you are. This guy is hilarious and thanks for the link. My wife wanted to know what was so funny! :D:
 

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I believe that it should be anticipated that aggressors will be wearing some sort of protection.
.357 mag. minimum.
 

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It is pointless to explain why pistols are a necessity in a SHTF situation, anyone that thinks they are not maybe needs to do some more research. In fact a pistol, be a revolver or semi-auto could have a case made for them in just about any situation.

My question and comments are going to be on calibers, which ones and why. Now if you only have a 25auto or 32 auto and that is all you will ever have then so be it, it is better than not having anything at all. I used to look down on .380s also until the past few years when the ammo companies started making some very high quality ammo in 380.

After a SHTF situation, there will be many running around with big cannons hanging off their hip. Big revolvers they may have stolen from a local gun shop. 460’s and 500’s with 8 to 12 barrels all in the open for the “Intimidation factor” gambling on once you see it, you will give up yourself (if you are good looking female) and or your belongings you happen to have with you.

So in this situation, what do you do? How would you handle this if you walked into this?

Getting with like minded people that you can TRUST and that is the most important, trust. Now these will have to be special people indeed. After a life changing event as SHTF there will be many people you would swear you know be completely different. I saw this first hand when I was deployed in the southern hemisphere years ago. People change, plain and simple.

If you find this group of like minded people, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have most of the pistols calibers the same between everyone. That means more ammo for everyone. Problem is a lot of people stop here, they think this is enough and they have everything covered. It would be a good idea to have a couple calibers that are not the norm. Normal for most will probably be 9mm, 45acp and 38 / .357mag.

You would be surprised of the people that don’t have the 40s&w. (I for one love the 40s&w round) But someone in the group should have a 44mag, or 454 or even one of the 500s&w on hand for a “JUST IN CASE” weapon. You would not need 1000’s of rounds for these, maybe 250 for each caliber and they only get used for very specific reasons. That way they would not take up to much room for the small amount of stocking. Also if you would need this much power you will be glad you have it, sometimes a 9, 40, 45 and even the 357mag just is not big enough.

Kev did a great job on rifle calibers with his post and shotguns speak for themselves… Pistols need to be talked about and considered. Concealed Carry is not what I am talking about here. Those who carry, carry what works for them, besides that is for a mostly normal world we have now. This is for the aftermath of a SHTF event. Now again I am not saying everyone in the group have the “BIG Bores” but at least 2 people should out of however many you have together. There will come a time when you need one of these calibers.


Even while moving around after an event of this magnitude one would not want to show off their weapon. Now I know some will say, NO you want to show it so nobody will mess with you. Again from experience in deployment when you do this you are a target… You might as well paint yourself fluorescent orange and hold your weapon of choice above your head and scream I GOT A GUN at the top of your lungs… It comes out to be about the same… Then you get shot and most times it is from somebody you never saw… After that the women get raped and everything else gets taken…

If you go out in groups to “scout” one person should have the big bore with them and the rest of the group have the normal pistols, rifles and shotguns. It is just smart to have it planned this way. You are covering all the bases this way.

As far as how much ammo to have or want to have is still something everyone has to decide on based on a bunch of things, room, money, ability to transport etc… If you can afford it and have the room for 50,000 rounds then go for it. If not do what you can as you can do it… Any amount on hand is better than none at all…

Please feel free to chime in on this post with your idea’s for or against… That is what we are here for, to find out ideas that will help us survive if and when needed…

Thanks everyone for reading…:thumb:
Gunner
I go back and forth on this topic in my head. I of course see the need for a handgun or secondary weapon if you will but which caliber?
Since weight is an issue and I can't bring all the goodies on my back, a decision must be made. I would love to carry a hi capacity 9mm and could possibly manage a few hundred rds in a pack. The 9mm is a great handy, common caliber option. It's also hard to beat 18 rds of 124+p in a single mag imo.

But I always come back to my Ruger Single action 22lr. I can carry hundreds and hundreds of rds and I can hunt small game. As a side arm it's accurate and will hold it's own if need be. Granted, not a powerful as 9mm but it will still defend you if need be.

My logic is if I have a Rifle for a self defense weapon, a handy 22 LR maybe the best option to pair with. I wouldn't want to be in a gun fight with only a 22, but it's purpose would be more in the survival niche vs self defense.
 

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Dad was an old time cop. When I went on the force dad said, "B careful when you pull a gun because someone might stick it up your a$$." I think he was saying, have a good reason.
 

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Just curious if any of you who posted in the beginning of this thread ever considered back then that no ammo would be considered readily available 10 yrs later?
 

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buy the die's and reload... I have several dies for common calibers (both rifle and pistol) I do not own. If its some crazy hand cannon round like a .475 Linebaugh well put'er up and go will common calibers. However....if a person is good with their own gun, then I say let'em be good with a gun they are familiar with. Why try to make them re-train in another caliber? I can see if its a preplanned group, but how often do you train with your neighbors? For me if you need more ammo I will cook some up.-WW
except primers are 300 dollars a thousand and powder 200 a pound and the only place you can get them is buy old stuff at gun broker
 

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Read Selco Begovic's writings on surviving four years of SHTF in Bosnia. He has some things to say about this:
  • Carrying a long gun will made you a target, just for the gun. There were be snipers out all the time.
  • Hunting attracted bad guys and game got hunted/trapped out of the area quickly.
  • Survival was about bartering. You got in small groups with people you trusted and you moved through the back streets at night to go to prearranged bartering locations: parking garages, warehouses, etc.
  • The best gun was a good concealable handgun. It didn't have to be anything special. The purpose was to defend against/deter ambushes at home and on the way to bartering sites, and also to shoot a way out of if a deal went bad.
  • He said you did not want to get in prolonged gunfights. That attracted attention of the worst kind. Your guns were a means to cover your escape from a situation.
  • Have something you can get a lot of ammo for, pre-SHTF. You won't get any after.
 

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Semper Fi
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Im sorry. I skipped a few pages. It was probably already mentioned but anyway.

I have a Taurus judge. It shoots both 45lc and 410 shotgun rounds. I feel this fits perfectly Into this discussion. Multi purpose. The long colts may ne hard to come by after TSHTF, but the 410 is pretty common and cheap to stock up on. Both have serious knockdown power and can be used for defense and for moderate hunting. Plus it is the concealed carry model and doesn't take up much room at all.

Now if I could only find some speed loaders for the dam thing...
Old thread I know but .410 out of a handgun isn't all that outside of point blank range. The shell was developed for 18+ inch shotgun barrels and even much of what's marketed as for the Judge is simply repackaged shotgun ammo.
 
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I'm down to 9mm, 357 sig, and .40.

Ideally I won't be walking around. Post SHTF, I hope we can stay put with what we have in our group. I think once you leave your secure AO, you're a target no matter what. It's always hard to know how someone perceives this post SHTF world, I know it can mean many things to people.

If my small group does have to leave, hopefully I will have thoroughly communicated with the land owners around me to agree on passage though their land to what ever needed destination.

If there is still some semblance of security and society, yet it's just degraded; I think two small groups is the way to go with each other watching their backs without making it obvious.

Keeping it to one or two calibers would be ideal with a concealed rifle caliber pistol under a jacket on a sling in each group.
 

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Seloc Begovic actually lived and survived a long term SHTF situation. If he says openly carrying a big gun would make you a target I'd listen to him.

I pocket carry a Kimber 380 because I don't want to attract attention and would prefer to have any potential attacker underestimate my defensive ability and make me look like a low value target. Carrying "loud and proud" means you'll be the guy who gets shot at first because that big rifle makes you the largest threat and your black rifle the biggest prize.

For the rare times I want to show that I'm carrying I go with a hip mounted .40.
Seloc Berovic survived in a much more urban environment than I'm in so a rifle for longer defensive use would be more useful as long as the rifle was kept out if sight as much as possible.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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Just curious if any of you who posted in the beginning of this thread ever considered back then that no ammo would be considered readily available 10 yrs later?
The ammo supply problem from back in 2008 is exactly why I started to reload my own. I wasn't going to be dependent upon commercial offerings.

I kept looking for the weak points in my reloading supply chain, and undertook efforts to shore them up or find ways to replace them. Early on, it was buying extra commercial bullets (which I still have), laying in extra primers when I could find them at prices I could afford, collecting spent brass at ranges, and learning which powders I wanted to standardize on.

I realized that bullets were a place that the gun grabbers might focus, so I began to look into how to cast my own. I now cast for 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357, 38 spl, and .270. The only ones I don't cast are .223 and 22LR.

Then I learned to powdercoat the bullets instead of using lube, so that's the current evolution.

Here's the key for anyone looking to get started: get started! Yeah, you can't find this or that, but ask yourself where you want to be w/r/t reloading ammo in six months or a year.

About 5 months ago I helped a SurvivalistBoards member get started reloading. He faced the same constraints as everyone does now--except he kept at it, piecing together a setup, and now he's reloading his own ammo.

I told him what he needed, and he started looking. Ran across some dies, bought them. Didn't even have a press yet, but laid in the dies. He kept looking, ran across a reloading kit as typically includes most of what one needs, and bought that. Kept looking for powder and primers, eventually scored. I suggested he ask around locally for someone who could help him, or might sell him at least some primers and powder.

The difference between this guy and most of the rest of those complaining in this thread is that he had the initiative to actually get started. And here he is 5 months later and NOT in any threads complaining about ammo availability.

Here's typically what I have on hand, when I get below half I start thinking of making more. .45ACP on the left, 9mm on the right:

363452


So. If you want to start reloading, start.
 

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The ammo supply problem from back in 2008 is exactly why I started to reload my own. I wasn't going to be dependent upon commercial offerings.

I kept looking for the weak points in my reloading supply chain, and undertook efforts to shore them up or find ways to replace them. Early on, it was buying extra commercial bullets (which I still have), laying in extra primers when I could find them at prices I could afford, collecting spent brass at ranges, and learning which powders I wanted to standardize on.

I realized that bullets were a place that the gun grabbers might focus, so I began to look into how to cast my own. I now cast for 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357, 38 spl, and .270. The only ones I don't cast are .223 and 22LR.

Then I learned to powdercoat the bullets instead of using lube, so that's the current evolution.

Here's the key for anyone looking to get started: get started! Yeah, you can't find this or that, but ask yourself where you want to be w/r/t reloading ammo in six months or a year.

About 5 months ago I helped a SurvivalistBoards member get started reloading. He faced the same constraints as everyone does now--except he kept at it, piecing together a setup, and now he's reloading his own ammo.

I told him what he needed, and he started looking. Ran across some dies, bought them. Didn't even have a press yet, but laid in the dies. He kept looking, ran across a reloading kit as typically includes most of what one needs, and bought that. Kept looking for powder and primers, eventually scored. I suggested he ask around locally for someone who could help him, or might sell him at least some primers and powder.

The difference between this guy and most of the rest of those complaining in this thread is that he had the initiative to actually get started. And here he is 5 months later and NOT in any threads complaining about ammo availability.

Here's typically what I have on hand, when I get below half I start thinking of making more. .45ACP on the left, 9mm on the right:

View attachment 363452

So. If you want to start reloading, start.
I totally agree with your post. If you haven't started reloading already, you have to start somewhere. Just because you can't find everything thing at once, doesn't mean you can't piece it together a little at a time. My husband has been reloading for probably about 20 years. So even before the ammo supply problem he had everything we needed and we saw things going south so we stocked up on things before it became an issue.

When ever we go out shooting I always look for reloadable spent brass. I found a couple of really good scores the last couple of times. Where there's a will there's a way. Just gotta keep your eyes and ears to the ground.
 

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Just curious if any of you who posted in the beginning of this thread ever considered back then that no ammo would be considered readily available 10 yrs later?
We have had fluctuations in ammo availability several times over the past 20+years. Many have advocated to stock up when times were good, supply was up and prices very reasonable. I don't know what the future holds (for ammo sales), but if the market does normalize and prices drop to reasonable prices with plenty on the shelves...people will ignore the recommendations and then complain when another event drives price up and clears the shelves. It's cyclical. It's not just ammo, it's also reloading components...those rainy days are a bad time to go looking for ammo or reloading components.

ROCK6
 

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Swirl Herder
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We have had fluctuations in ammo availability several times over the past 20+years. Many have advocated to stock up when times were good, supply was up and prices very reasonable. I don't know what the future holds (for ammo sales), but if the market does normalize and prices drop to reasonable prices with plenty on the shelves...people will ignore the recommendations and then complain when another event drives price up and clears the shelves. It's cyclical. It's not just ammo, it's also reloading components...those rainy days are a bad time to go looking for ammo or reloading components.

ROCK6
Back when I joined here, many survivalists expressed their concern about the posters who declared "I am just stocking ammo"- because of the implication that they were preparing to be raiders.

More recently it has become apparent that many, many members were not even stocking ammo.......

Over the last few months, there have been up to several threads running, full of indignation about "gouging". The strength of feeling showed how many were pretty much out of ammo (some for training and some completely). Those members must have ignored all the advice to stock ammo for when it was expensive or indeed unobtainable.

The scary thing is, that advice was not just hypothetical, because ammo shortages had already happened in recent years. Despite this, many still had not prepared.

About a week ago, I saw a post suggesting that "I told you so" posts about ammo are unfair - because some people have good reasons why they cannot stock up (like lack of money). For those that really applies to, that is a good excuse. But for the vast majority of members and indeed US shooters, there is no such excuse. They just failed to prepare - and since other posters didn't convince them to buy ammo when cheap, perhaps shaming them into buying a decent sized stock of ammo, next time it is reasonably cheap is worth a try.

The majority of people short of rounds now, had just assumed that ammo would always be available and cheap - even though that has been disproved by actual events at least a few times in the last couple of decades.
 

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Read Selco Begovic's writings on surviving four years of SHTF in Bosnia. He has some things to say about this:
  • Carrying a long gun will made you a target, just for the gun. There were be snipers out all the time.
  • Hunting attracted bad guys and game got hunted/trapped out of the area quickly.
  • Survival was about bartering. You got in small groups with people you trusted and you moved through the back streets at night to go to prearranged bartering locations: parking garages, warehouses, etc.
  • The best gun was a good concealable handgun. It didn't have to be anything special. The purpose was to defend against/deter ambushes at home and on the way to bartering sites, and also to shoot a way out of if a deal went bad.
  • He said you did not want to get in prolonged gunfights. That attracted attention of the worst kind. Your guns were a means to cover your escape from a situation.
  • Have something you can get a lot of ammo for, pre-SHTF. You won't get any after.
Was he in or near a city ?
 

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Back when I joined here, many survivalists expressed their concern about the posters who declared "I am just stocking ammo"- because of the implication that they were preparing to be raiders.

More recently it has become apparent that many, many members were not even stocking ammo.......

Over the last few months, there have been up to several threads running, full of indignation about "gouging". The strength of feeling showed how many were pretty much out of ammo (some for training and some completely). Those members must have ignored all the advice to stock ammo for when it was expensive or indeed unobtainable.

The scary thing is, that advice was not just hypothetical, because ammo shortages had already happened in recent years. Despite this, many still had not prepared.

About a week ago, I saw a post suggesting that "I told you so" posts about ammo are unfair - because some people have good reasons why they cannot stock up (like lack of money). For those that really applies to, that is a good excuse. But for the vast majority of members and indeed US shooters, there is no such excuse. They just failed to prepare - and since other posters didn't convince them to buy ammo when cheap, perhaps shaming them into buying a decent sized stock of ammo, next time it is reasonably cheap is worth a try.

The majority of people short of rounds now, had just assumed that ammo would always be available and cheap - even though that has been disproved by actual events at least a few times in the last couple of decades.
I have an ammo stockpile. And i am complaining about prices, not gouging because it is a myth.

I have a survival stockpile of 9mm, 5.56 22lr and a little 10mm and 308. I have not started stockpiling 357 sig or 357/38 yet so i just have a few rounds for those guns.

But that stock pile is “ sacred “ it does not get used for training or plinking or even hunting UNLESS it can be replaced in rotation. I used two boxes of 9mm ball from my stockpile during the pandemic. One was to give to a friend who bought a new gun and one was to test out my new handgun. I just replaced those two boxes a couple weeks ago.

Other than that i buy ammo before or after i shoot. I like to rotate ammo through my storage a little. But i do not let it go low, esp the 5.56. I keep at LEAST 1000 rounds of that on hand. And at least 300 loaded in mags ready.

I plan after this shortage to get a better stockpile. More defensive ammo ( cheaper hollow points maybe ) and at least triple my current stock. Also reloading components That way should another shortage hit, i can at least shoot a little more for fun.
 
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