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Mall ninja in training
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461 Posts
Couple comments. First, I am totally kidding about the ostrich. I just enjoy the image of riding an ostrich.



I would rather look like a lion than look like the sheep. Lots of people want to look like sheep. I respect your opinion. But good luck with that. I would rather look like a lion.

Don't forget, you can hunt with your rifle too. ONE RIFLE TO RULE THEM ALL!!!!!
 

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Uhmmmm,,,,, I think we all need to remember,
We don't need to win the argument here, we need to stay alive.

I hope we all do a good job of that,,,,,however we, as individuals decide to do that!

!!!!! GOOD LUCK TO US ALL!!!!! God Bless us all, everyone!
 

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357 Posts
I only stock up on what I have a gun to fit. Man, you could have a box of everything and someone would still show up with something you never planned for. I keep .22 short and long, .22 magnum, .357 magnum, 9MM, .45 ACP and the odd .44 magnum on hand. I just hope that I have enough for me, much less others.

This question you pose is a tough one that's for sure!

Oh yeah, don't forget Your Other Guns.;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IbPE8l1Qqg
This has got to be the craziest, funniest dude on you tube! I've never laughed so hard at some of these videos!!! :D:

You rock Vinnie!!!
 

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.
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3,649 Posts
#1 Predatory rule: Its not just human nature but nature in general that predators attack the prey they perceive as weak or at a disadvantage from the others.

....
i could be wrong, but i think you just justified TheTexasHammer"s reason for going out and about with the rifle. having the rifle out in the open makes a person look more agressive and ready to do business. as in a predator, and not easy prey.

now it might not be the smartest thing to do, but at times a little show of force could be needed.


just my $0.02..
 

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About had enough here.
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208 Posts
Couple comments. First, I am totally kidding about the ostrich. I just enjoy the image of riding an ostrich.



I would rather look like a lion than look like the sheep. Lots of people want to look like sheep. I respect your opinion. But good luck with that. I would rather look like a lion.

Don't forget, you can hunt with your rifle too. ONE RIFLE TO RULE THEM ALL!!!!!
For the record, I'm not kidding about my minigun and war bears.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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12,044 Posts
OK you guys are getting crazy with the pistol accuracy stuff. I am a little sceptical, but since it is clearly not out of the range of reason, I will get my 40 cal Taurus and try 100 yard shots. I admit I have never gone that far out. Hitting a gallon jug at 100yds? I prolly can't come close. But I'll try.

But as I posted, accuracy is not the only issue. Getting ambushed you won't be doing anything that turning over your concealed weapon. The only negative I didn't mention was brought up, which is that you're carrying a ten pound rifle plus mags on your chest while maneuvering and probably carrying a 60 pound pack.
I can't hit a small target at distance reliably, but I have hit a milk jug at 100 yards. The issue is bullet drop, and you have to either ladder up your shots looking at where they fall short, or simply know how much higher or whatever you need to aim.

When I practice this with my .45, I'm shooting rounds that are from 800-850fps (depending on what round). A 100-yard target is 300 feet away, which would imply a 3/8-second time of flight. But the bullet is slowing down as it travels, so I figure a half-second travel time.

Take an object and drop it; see how far it falls in one second. Cut that in half, and that's the approximate amount of bullet drop in a half second. Then the only question is whether your sights are parallel to the bore, or whether bore and sightline converges at some point (my M4s are set to zero at 100 yards, which means that bullet has to rise a couple inches to do that). If they converge, bullet drop will be less.

I almost think of "lofting" my .45 rounds to the target. It's less the issue with my 9mm, as I'm throwing rounds downrange at approximately 1100fps.

To me, the only real way to figure this out is to shoot at a large target, something 4x8 feet, and see where your shots are landing at distance.

I don't have any illusions that under a 100-yard scenario I'm going to be laying rounds on target as if it were at 15-yards. But I will tell you this: I will be in the neighborhood, the target will know they're under fire, and given that the XDs have high capacity magazines, I'm fairly likely to get hits with a few rounds.

That's the beauty of those high capacity magazines: you can effectively engage in suppressive fire, and suppressive fire at distance.

If you've never tried it, give it a whirl. I think you'll surprise yourself with what can be done w/ a handgun at distance. And as I said in another post, I wouldn't want to be standing 100 yards away catching what I'm pitching.
 

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Dios y Tejas
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6,689 Posts
I may be wrong, but I dont see the probability of needing to drop a person at 100 meters with a handgun. It's great if you can do it consistantly, but I, for one, will rely on cover and concealment over that one shot kill when the distance is anything over 25 meters... I know my limitations..but more power to those of you can... :thumb:
 

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Banned
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2,839 Posts
I can hit a barn at 2 paces (4 feet) with all my shots and have time to reload before the barn knows what hit it. At 10 feet I can scare the crap out of anything Im shooting at and at 20 feet I have a big enough head start to run for the hills.
 

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I may be wrong, but I dont see the probability of needing to drop a person at 100 meters with a handgun. It's great if you can do it consistantly, but I, for one, will rely on cover and concealment over that one shot kill when the distance is anything over 25 meters... I know my limitations..but more power to those of you can... :thumb:

i can see the probabilities of it happening being pretty small, but it is fun to try and do. and there might come a time you could be caught in a spot that does not ofter immeadiate cover or concealment with a threat engaging you from a distance. and then i hope that the person presenting the threat is someone who does not know how to shoot.

i know that i will not be making 1 shot kills at that distance, but i could hopefully be accurate enough to get who ever is shooting at me to try and seek cover themselves. then while they are not looking i could hopefully withdraw and move to safety. and i think that could be the goal of a few others here as well.

their are those that say you should always bring enough gun to the fight :thumb: , but for me, i always try to bring enough run from the fight, (as in away from :D: )
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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12,044 Posts
I may be wrong, but I dont see the probability of needing to drop a person at 100 meters with a handgun. It's great if you can do it consistantly, but I, for one, will rely on cover and concealment over that one shot kill when the distance is anything over 25 meters... I know my limitations..but more power to those of you can... :thumb:
A) At that distance I'd rather use my M4

B) I might not have my M4

C) My M4 might be broken or out of ammo and all I have is my pistol

D): I might need to present suppressive fire to enable escape

I don't think anyone's arguing this is the best way to engage a threat, rather, it's simply an option you have if you've practiced it a bit.
 

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Uhmmmm,,,,, I think we all need to remember,
We don't need to win the argument here, we need to stay alive.
I hope we all do a good job of that,,,,,however we, as individuals decide to do that!

!!!!! GOOD LUCK TO US ALL!!!!! God Bless us all, everyone!
Many paths up mountain. All same mountain.
 

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2,832 Posts
A) At that distance I'd rather use my M4

B) I might not have my M4

C) My M4 might be broken or out of ammo and all I have is my pistol

D): I might need to present suppressive fire to enable escape

I don't think anyone's arguing this is the best way to engage a threat, rather, it's simply an option you have if you've practiced it a bit.
Now that's a rational chain of thought. All preppers should engage in basic risk management. And it goes a little something like that above.

When you think you have the solution, test it against every reasonable threat, and develop a course of action. The biggest liability in firearms selection is not the firearm ... its the operator. Unless you've been to combat, you have most likely operated your firearms when you felt healthy, in completely safe controls. Survival on the other hand will in fact be a time when you do not feel healthy and you do not have safe controls.

Not all handguns can hit accurately at 100 yds, so I don't have those. Those I have can, and I have developed the skill required to use them. Why? Because I have determined that for me a long gun, while optimum as a weapon, are most dependent on my health, and very easy to lose compared to a holstered handgun. If you've not done the risk analysis on your solution, you are betting against the house.
 

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Simple Man
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152 Posts
I'd rather come up against a guy with a .44 that didn't know how to use it,
than a guy with a .25acp who knew it's limitations and had practiced enough to
become proficient as possible.

If someone had one of the reliable .25s, and had amassed a large quantity of ammo, and really knew it and how to use it......so be it.
Same with .32s.

There are many people, for whom, lets say $300 bucks, is simply NOT going to be available for a gun. Thats just not in their stars for whatever reason. I know several.
Now if they inherited grandpas old .25, or .32, at least they are NOW armed.
Above all else...be armed.
Once 'A' gun is in possesion, $20 here and there for ammo is much more likely to happen.

I inhereted an old Colt .25 from a dieing frinend. Great little gun, ammo is reasonably cheap and I have fired 200+ rounds from it and has never hung up on me. I have been wanting to get a .40S&W pistol and would really like to add one of those Kel Tec Sub-2000. Other than that I have and love a Ruger .22 single six, a Ruger 10/22, a Remi 270, and a Moss 12ga pump defender. Between the wife and I, I think we are good, just need to stock up on ammo.
 

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watcher
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585 Posts
I inhereted an old Colt .25 from a dieing frinend. Great little gun, ammo is reasonably cheap and I have fired 200+ rounds from it and has never hung up on me. I have been wanting to get a .40S&W pistol and would really like to add one of those Kel Tec Sub-2000. Other than that I have and love a Ruger .22 single six, a Ruger 10/22, a Remi 270, and a Moss 12ga pump defender. Between the wife and I, I think we are good, just need to stock up on ammo.
I also inherited a nice little Berretta .25. It's just as you described yours.
It's a shame they get laughted at so much.
I know of one person, who was shot in his diaphram area at about 6feet with a .25acp. He folded like a lounge-chair, and begged for mercy in total agony.
(he shouldn't have beaten a woman). He underwent quite a bit of surgery and lingering pain.
A bit higher, according to the docs, and it would have been fatal.
Basically duplicates ramming a medium-small phillips screwdriver up to
the hilt in your body.
ugh.
Not my first choice for any confrontation, but I'd be better with it than without anything.
I know I'd hate to take a well aimed double tap from a .25acp.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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12,044 Posts
Using a .45 at 100 yards--Target

Got out this afternoon for a little end-of-season shooting, and decided to test myself w/ the .45 Springfield XD at 100 yards.

I have some REALLY big targets I picked up at an estate auction--perhaps they were 600-yard or 1000-yard targets from the military, I don't know. The entire target is 4 feet by 6 feet. Yeah, big.

Perfect, in fact, for such long-distance pistol shooting as it's easy to see where the rounds land that miss the bullseye.

Below is the result. Twenty rounds (10 were 200gr Missouri Bullet RNFP, 10 were 230gr Hornady XTP hollow point). Reasonably rapid-fire, two handed stance, no bench rest.

Marks in red point to the .45 holes.

Conclusion? I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. Both sets of 10 produced shots that would have hit a person-sized target centered on the bullseye. And we see my normal tendency to be just a bit left on shots, but I can adjust for that by simply aiming a bit right if I have to.

 

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Super Moderator and Walking Methane Refinery
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68,758 Posts
A) At that distance I'd rather use my M4

B) I might not have my M4

C) My M4 might be broken or out of ammo and all I have is my pistol

D): I might need to present suppressive fire to enable escape

I don't think anyone's arguing this is the best way to engage a threat, rather, it's simply an option you have if you've practiced it a bit.
I agree. I also believe in being the very best that you can be with the weapon at hand. If the gun is capable of the distance, then the shooter should work at becoming proficient at it also. It's just a matter of being able to get the most out of whatever tool you have in your hand at the time. This applies to the rifle, shotgun, pistol, or even a knife. Train and practice, train and practice.

The Luby's massacre here in Texas was an eye opener in that regard. Concealed carry wasn't legal at the time and that's why the shooter was able to kill so many people. But even if it had been legal, the distances involved in stopping a madman across a large restaurant are beyond what most people train for. So it might not have made a difference anyway. I want to be able to take that shot if I ever have to.
 

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FARFAL posted the need for a handgun in Argentina's collapse. I'd say he reported to (a) always carry (b) carry concealed even after a breakdown and (c) be able to put gun into action fast.
His article was great. It made a lot of sence to me.

As to handcannons: my largest is a couple Blackhawks in .45LC. I have a small amount of CORBON .45LC +P on hand, but I am working on a handload using STXs.
 

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Mall ninja in training
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461 Posts
More power to you, but I'll stay with my minigun on a cart pulled by a team of trained war bears, thankyouverymuch.

And the great thing about war bears? They eat anything! From rotten trash to plants to raiders, you're ready to rock and roll!
For the record, I'm not kidding about my minigun and war bears.
Well it looks like I'm gonna have to get me a team of tactical elephants.

ANd I've pondered the issue of predator versus prey, I want to at least look like the predator, not like easy pickings. Having said that, I still say avoid as many fights as possible, or course avoidance is the best option.
 

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Ding... Thanks for playin
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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Any more idea's?
 
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