I decline every shot the VA wants to give me. I'll do IV antibiotics but no Flu, Shingles... whatever. I did let them give me a tetanus booster.

 

Full Measure with Sharyl Attkisson - The Vaccination Debate - January 6, 2019

FULL MEASURE: January 6, 2019 - The Vaccination Debate - YouTube

thanx for posting this....i haven't watched it yet but plan to...I've seen other Atkisson vids on other topics and it seems she isn't afraid to "go there" , unlike most other "journalists"

 

Sorry, anything with anti-carbon hypocrite Robert Kennedy is a joke.
Is there any bigger joke of a man than RFK Jr. ???
No
If you want to know the facts and avoid the anti-vaccination nut jobs here is fact:

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/01/17/zimmerman-useful-idiot-for-antivaxers/

 

Just Attkisson trying to reboot her old debate.


https://vaxopedia.org/2019/01/13/sharyl-attkissons-full-measure-vaccine-debate-bombshell/

 

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/clear-legal-basis-vaccines-cause-autism

 

Sorry but Sayer Ji's website is hardly a valid reference. The man has absolutely no scientific credentials from accredited institutions. He's just making more traction now that Mike Adams and his Natural News site was delisted from Google for promoting scam medicine. Ji loves to reference white papers that yanked from science journals for failing peer review. Not that Ji would ever submit any of the flurry of articles he cranks out for peer review either. He just finds a quack with a failed paper and writes his own on top of it. And it is all so he can peddle books and so-called natural cures for cancer.

Medicine is an evolving science that is scary to folks who fear sickness and death. Because doctors never have all the answers there is a gap for snake oil peddlers to exploit fear for profit. Ji is just another Adams or Kevin Trudeau.

 

Are you saying the vaccine court is fake news, and you have better credentials?

 

No, I'm saying that any info offered by Ji is suspect. Yes, I know that vaccine court exists. Yes, I know it is carefully structured to protect vaccine makers. Yes, I know a justice structure like that can have issues.

Did Ji mention why it exists? Because without it we wouldn't get enough vaccines. It was created when every pharma company said they were throwing in the towel. They told the feds if they wanted vaccines to start make'm themselves because the pharma companies were quitting the business. No profit and too much liability. Vaccine court was the struck deal. Otherwise you'll have government union workers making all the standard vaccines.

Without enough doses society loses herd immunity and the bad old days come back.

Vaccines aren't perfect. No drug ever is. But with vaccines we have more healthy kids than without them. Side effects are the price that has to be paid. Kids had complications from day one of the vaccine era. Being of the era, I can say that regardless of the fractional risks back then the mothers brought their kids out in droves and waited all day. It took mom and me three hours in line to get my first sugar cube. No one in line batted an eye when the nurse told everyone that there was an associated risk.

Let me clear. If they find it can cause autism I'm all for mandatory vaccines.

It may seem statist when I endorse mandatory vaccination, but if one thing is sure to destroy the freedoms of the Constitution then it will be microbial disease. Pandemic doesn't give a care about the rights of man and we are not its master. There will be no principles or ethics worth mentioning when disease wildfire runs rampant. Any vaccine that prevents more suffering than the communicable disease itself should be mandatory.

If you want pharma companies making vaccines then you get vaccine court. If you hope vaccines go away then public pressure will resist you and rapidly increase as disease starts to rise. If you want vaccines and expect pharma companies to be on the liability hook then that just isn't going to happen.

All you can realistically chose as alternatives in the long run is either pharma companies make them with limited liability or government union workers making them with full immunity. You may rebel against getting only those two choices but short of gene re-sequencing immunity coming along and forced on all births then anything else will end up ultimately back at those two options.

We don't have to like it. We just have to live with it.

As for Ji versus me, I at least have state issued medical credentials. He just has a burning desire for profit.

 

I'm not against vaccines but am interested in the whole story with no suppression or cover up. Vaccines haven't hurt me with the exception of the flu vaccine. If vaccines caused autism in a select few cases then the cause should be resolved if it hasn't been.

I had shingles which might have been avoidable if I had been vaccinated. The CDC recommends that I be vaccinated now but can't explain how the vaccine can help someone that has already had shingles. I know it is probably because the group chosen to answer emails has no resources available to give real answers so I just rattled her cage until I tired of the game. I don't just accept (bug letter) answers. I have no problem with your logic or the logic of the website I posted.

 

Someone has to be brave enough to state something imperfect is still the better option.

It's a shame too that no one could give you the straight dope on the shingles vaccine. Let's hope your chain yanking encouraged her to go get more info. Once you get chicken pox it never leaves your body. It just crawls into your spine and waits for the day your immune system is old and distracted. The vaccine is merely a fresh hiring of new immune cops before you get too old. Having had shingles and fought it off there is the question raised whether you need the vaccine. It's a valid question with no clear answer. With few side effects known to the vaccine I would say your doctor is just playing defensive medicine. Refusal on your part is valid enough given your recent immune dose by the disease. There is no perfect answer in your case. Both choices have validity. But if you hated having shingles, and who ever likes them, then I can imagine why the doc recommended it.

We are between a rock and a hard place on this vaccine business. I'm sure there is a better feedback system than vaccine court, but we are stuck with what Congress is willing to do. When do they ever do things the best way? They could **** up making a bowl of corn flakes.

And mark my words, the clever writers of the Constitution were wily enough to come up with answers to questions coming centuries after they were gone, but they gave us no clear path on pandemic. This is one threat we will face without their ethical guidance. Given the quality of brains these days in DC then we are bound to suffer first. God help us.


If I had kids right at their early shots age I would likely try to slow down the program. My biggest objection is how many the kids get so fast. That's a lot for those little bodies to get so fast. Drawing it out a few extra years gives their immune system time to focus on the threats and recover. I would never recommend skipping them entirely but more time between them seems prudent. Obviously, you will need a pediatrician who will work with you.

 

All I have to add to this debate is 40 years of medical practice in countries that vaccinate and countries that don't.

Yes, vaccines do not guarantee 100% protection.

Yes, some people suffer serious side-effects.

But, overall, Louis Pasteur, Jonas Salk and their like have saved millions of lives - and many more millions from avoidable misery.

That is all.

 

This.
Vaccines have done immeasurable good, not saying they haven't done a few people harm.

The pharma companies don't do themselves any favors though by pushing basically useless 'vaccines' on younger and younger populations.
Specifically Gardasil, which was a joke of a vaccine... really just a Merck money maker...
So it's a mixed bag IMHO, and people need to make informed decisions. But thinking that not getting your kids vaccinated against measles, chicken pox, etc... is smart, isn't.

 

As for Ji versus me, I at least have state issued medical credentials. He just has a burning desire for profit.

And thus the motivation for too many 'experts' who argue against anything mainstream. Thank you for cutting to the chase. The news about Mike Adams was also welcome. Very welcome indeed.

RR

 

Agree with you ksmedman. If we could shoot* the pharma sales reps en masse - I do believe we would Do Good.

(*I know, that's an excessive solution to the problem. But I bet y'all gets my drift).

 

I grew up before there were vaccines for what used to be "normal" childhood diseases. I remember when I had the measles at 5, I was so sick I asked Mom for an alcohol bath, even though they were really uncomfortable, because I always felt so much better afterwards.

Vaccinations are important, but the newer ones have made me very sick, and for months at a time, so I am very cautious about what I let the VA give me. Yes, I reported the adverse reactions to both the VA and the FDA.

I did volunteer for an Ebola vaccine trial awhile back, but ended up in the group that got the fake shot

 

Sadly the money trail is involved in our health care and at times debates are headed off at the pass rather than getting full airing. I just like to be cautious and explore all the angles and that is why I appreciate programs such as Full Measure and radicals such as Ji. Like Ji or not all the info on his website cannot be glossed over and casually dismissed.

If I had small children I would probably follow Zeke's logic of not loading the little guys with too many vaccines at a time.

 

I remember discussing Gardasil With an OB-GYN at work. He said the medical community was concerned that people would not vaccinate their children due to the method of transmission of the virus. Their children would never do that before marriage. I also remember processing a "minor consent" medical card for the local minister's daughter. She needed to terminate an unwanted pregnancy without her parents find out. We don't know what the future has in store for us. Only a fool does not protect themselves and their loved ones. Get the vaccination, it is far better than treating the illness.

 

We are part of the ‘greatest health threat to the world’ because we do not vaccinate. My boys stayed sick and were in/out of the hospital and specialists until we stopped. We were also advised by specialists not to vaccinate further due to our genetics. After researching further, I wish I could go back in time and refuse them all.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html

There is a lot of debate about aluminum adjuvants. (aluminum added to vaccines to improve immune response)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122

No surprise the .gov claims it's safe. Also interesting that new research shows that injecting aluminum into the body transports it into the brain, where it can work it's magic.....

 

I will take the small dose of an aluminum compound to avoid tetnus.
That is a bad way to go.

 

I've seen people - majority, children - die of tetanus, and rabies, in Africa and Asia.

Horrible.

Preventable.

 

I am not an anti-vaxer but I do believe in administering them at the right time/age...and not all at once. However I do have my doubts on their effectiveness along with concerns of the injury they inflict. I am in favor of alternate vaccination schedules so that the little people don't get a jolt of chemicals hitting their systems.

If people are so worried about other kids not getting vaccinated then why the fear if their own kids have been vaccinated...Seems illogical.

If vaccines are so great then why the 'No vaccine is 100% effective' disclaimer on almost every vaccine brochure out there? Show me one that doesn't have that disclaimer.

If vaccines are so safe then why is there a Government Agency that does vaccination injury payouts... https://www.hrsa.gov/get-health-care/conditions/compensation.html

I am not making this stuff up...

 

Let me try

Vaccines are very effective but not 100% effective. Some people don't develop immunity. Some people have adverse reactions, almost always unpredictably so. That does not invalidate vaccines' overall safety and high level of efficacy. That's why disclaimers, that's why payouts.

If too many people do not vaccinate then there is a much higher risk that the small % of the people who are still susceptible after vaccination or who cannot be vaccinated (the very young and old, pregnant moms, people on certain drugs etc) , get exposed to the virus / bacteria - and get very sick / die, avoidably. The Principle of 'Herd Immunity'.

Vaccinate enough people and the bugs can no longer find a host. Hence, smallpox eradicated. Hence, polio all but eradicated (until the nutjob imams and the whacky antivaxxers formed an unwitting partnership to condemn millions to the disease by misinformation and religious suasion. (That's my view)).

 

The CDC did tell me maybe I should wait on the new shingles vaccine. Here's sme info on the new vaccine (Shingrix) from https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems...nd-treatments/shingles/news/20180212/new-shingles-vaccine_what-you-need-to-know

Shingrix is more than 90% effective at preventing shingles and a painful complication called postherpetic neuralgia (PHN) in all age groups. Zostavax only lowers the odds of getting shingles by 51%, and of PHN by 67%. It's even less effective in people ages 70 and older.

 

Smart move. If it is all it is advertised then it looks like a good drug idea.

 

3% effectiveness was last years flu shot in the US yet the government, doctors, organizations, etc are still pushing this vaccination on the people. In case you can't figure it out - that's a 97% failure rate.

Pharma makes over $1,000,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion dollars!) per year in the US alone on just vaccines! Can you see the motivation here anyone...anyone?

 

The flu shot is always a crapshot.

Thus is how it is made. Sometime over winter you have researchers going to China where the flu tends to morph every year. They start testing a lot of folks to find out which strains are most common. Then they chose the 3 most predominant strains that year in China. They rush samples over and crank out a small batch that gets human tested over early summer. If it passes safety trials then they rush production to get enough US doses. If one of the strains that wasn't included crosses the Pacific or if one of the included strains morphs again then the shot is of low value.

There is just no way to create a fool proof flu shot because of so many strains already out there and they mutate constantly. Just getting every other year's shot to be a good one is a great success.

Flu vaccines need to be taken out of the discussion when talking about the efficacy of vaccines in general.

We can beat a lot of diseases with vaccines if society is willing to sign on as a whole group, but we won't be beating influenza that way.

If you skip your annual flu shot I completely understand. The chance of it stopping any year's wave of flu is always a forlorn hope. But don't let that thinking color your opinion of vaccines as a whole.

As for money made on vaccines, you have to dig deeper. Gross sales receipts don't equate to profits. Every drug company wants out of the major vaccine industry. Small market vaccines for niche diseases that they can get a patent on? Sure, that can make money. Polio, flu, MMR, DPT, HepB, varcella? No profits there. The government has to give them limited immunity and use the carrot of willingness to approve niche vaccines to get them to be willing to make the big ones. It's either this arm twisting game or the government itself has to go into the vaccine business. Most Euro nations have already thrown in the towel and have to make vaccines at government labs. They already told us they aren't willing to ramp up a loser idea just to sell to us to cover our needs.

 

Herd Immunity? Is that a doctor above talking that ****? Please!

How many adults have received the same shot schedule required of a 5 yr old? None, that's who. Some herd we've got there, eh?

 

Hmmm. The facts don't change because you don't like them. But - you win, I should know better than to challenge dogmatic vaccinophobia on the internet. :thumb: Stay well.

 

My friend lost her son 16 hours after his shots...
She is a nurse and knew how to read the autopsy report.

She was so disgusted at the autopsy report.

1️⃣ First thing investigated:
Tylenol toxicity (to blame the parents)
2️⃣ Second thing investigated:
Abuse (to blame the parents)
3️⃣ Third thing investigated:
Substances like opioids and drugs
(To blame the kid or parents)
4️⃣ After that they rule out that it was not a heart attack or suffocation.

And then they stop investigating...and...put
"Natural Causes"

And tell the parents SUDS or SIDS as the cause death.

They NEVER asked for lung or brain tissue samples to look for vaccine toxins, ingredients or heavy metals.

After request she was able to obtain her sons lung, brain, and other tissues.
She had to track them down over several labs...
There was no process ...and no organization to keep it all under one file...with one lab responsible.
She had it separately tested...
And PAID for it herself.

Cause of death:
Encephalitis: Her son's brain was filled with thimerosol and aluminum toxicity... And a high percentage of polysorbate 80...

���� All of these are Vaccine ingredients!!!����

She reported it to VAERS and is awaiting for her day in the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Court...where nobody says they are sorry...and no pharmaceutical company is held responsible and will never pay a single dollar towards the lives they have destroyed.
She will just be paid tax payer money with a max payout of $250,000. Others will tell her "well that happens sometimes and that is just a risk you have to take"....

She is one of many.

If you want to fix SUDS or SIDS ...you need to FIX the crappy "standard of care" for investigating children's deaths. The autopsies fail at every level to "get to the ROOT of the issue".

Perfectly healthy humans with nothing wrong with their major organs...do not just randomly die. Ever. There is a cause.

 

Pharma is protected by the government to ensure limited liability using the vaccine court. Why? Because if not there would be no vaccine producing companies. Why? Because they're maiming and killing people and would be paying out big time.

And what about the doctors who blindly follow along? They should be sued as well. They should have liability. Maybe then they'd look into the matter, look for the truth, instead of following the recommendations of pharma.

My story? Well, for me it's my nephew, who at 2 yrs old got the MMR vaccine and became an insta-****, otherwise known today as "on the spectrum". He literally went from perfectly normal to retard overnight, the same night that he got the MMR shot along with a crazy high fever and was hospitalized as a result. I know it well because I was living with him at the time. Our family learned a whole lot about vaccine injury following this but unfortunately it was too late for my nephew to benefit.

My kids don't get any vaccinations and you know what, it shows. It shows in comparison to every kid in the neighborhood who all appear to be washed out half brain dead sub-human mutants.

Then there's the two older people we know (both over 80), who were conned into getting the shingles shot by their doctors. Both of these people got the shingles immediately following the vaccine stab. Yes, both full blown cases of shingles that have lasted for years now! I asked them both about what they thought about having received the shingles vaccine and then immediately coming down with shingles and BOTH replied the same answer, the answer given to them by their doctors, "well it's a good thing that I got the shot when I did or it would have been worse for me". :xeye:

I don't know what to say to such blatant stupidity. I just shake my head and go have an intelligent conversations with my (non-retard) kids.

 

Look, I said that vaccines are never 100% perfect. No drug ever can be.

If you give kids vaccines then some will die or be maimed. Absolute fact.

But at a tiny percentage of what the diseases do.

It's devil's bargain that costs less lives than doing nothing. But it only works if everyone takes a turn at the roulette wheel.

It's very sad when the wheel hits the one black spot but it has to be done. Opting out because you think a certain child is more worthy than all the rest dooms everyone.

Those deaths and disablements are the necessary cost, as is vaccine court. Anyone who lived through the bad old days understands. Couples expressly planned on multiple children just so they could ensure getting at least one into adulthood. Where do you think the line "for better or for worse" in wedding vows came from? Back when divorce just because you didn't like each other down the road was not a reason to get divorced. The vows reminded couples that raising a family was fraught with child death and to somehow work past it. People just assumed that families with only one child had experienced a tragedy. It was never just a lifestyle choice.

These days of helicopter parents investing in one special child comes from the boon that vaccines gave us. It didn't happen in my youth. Families made spare kids so there would be a heir.

I can sympathize with your loss on one hand, but still remain completely committed to the cost involved.

Children die from disease and from the costs associated with fighting disease. It has always been so. Anecdotes and personal anguish are not enough reason to stop vaccinating kids. If you can't conceive of the bad old days then I'm not sure how to make you understand how to live with the modern realities. But it won't change my stance.

 

Maybe for your family there was the need for multiple children due to death but not mine. I have inherited and researched on my own, many family lines and only 1 had children die from disease. They lost 2 to cholera and guess what, there isn’t a vaccine for it. As avid historians and highly educated people, they recorded just about everything that happened, it’s almost like reading an old school Facebook by how mundane cousin Archie detailed his life. All 9 of his children were incredibly healthy and due to his wife’s occupation as a nurse, they helped during the 1918 Spanish Flu and buried many neighbors, never becoming sick themselves.

Hygiene and sanitation have improved even in the past 10 years let alone 50. Chicken pox and measles rarely kill but the vaccine kills thousands every year not to mention those permanently damaged. Vaccines convey little to no immunity requiring boosters while a mild rash for a few days conveys lifetime immunity to that disease plus increased immunity to fight others.

How many adults have had all the necessary vaccinations they require for kids born this year? Why do all vaccine inserts state they haven’t been tested for safety regarding immunity, cancer or fertility? Why dominates old newborns need a Hep B vaccine when moms are tested for it during pregnancy and almost all test negative? Why risk GBS or death from a flu shot? Why are the symptoms of AFM the exact same as polio?

 

AND, you are completely committed to your idea, if you could, of having me and my children get MANDATORY vaccines at the point of a government gun just so you and yours get some assumed "protection", right?

And if my kids died then to you it's just the cost of doing business, right?

you disgust me. Mandatory, forced vaccines, some patriot you are.

I HAVE a son who WAS normal until his 18 month shots. NOW he is nonverbal autistic.

I BET you wouldn't tell me how that is just the cost of business to my face.

 

I've been as sympathetic as I can be in this.

But your child isn't more precious than any other kid. Your kid does not have more right to live healthy than any other.

Without the damage that vaccines cause there will be far more damage with the diseases.

And yes I would tell it to your face. I'm large, I'm armed, and I expect you to be emotionally invested beyond the point of rationality.

In short, I'll see you coming and be ready for you.

To cut the numbers of children who die or are injured by disease we sacrifice a smaller number of kids to imperfect vaccines because making a perfect vaccine would require a unique vaccine for every child. You do not have the resources or funds to pay for a perfect vaccine. Since you don't pay to get the perfect vaccine then you have to use the mass market variety. And if you refuse then you put all the other families at risk. Putting others at risk is criminally negligent behavior.

To live with other people you either get the disease revolver with 3 live rounds or the vaccine revolver with one. You don't get to avoid the revolver if you want to live in a community of people. Society has rules.

It sucks but the only other viable option to requiring vaccines is you paying to ensure your child never comes into contact with others. I really mean no contact with the outside world. Or not have kids. Breeding isn't a right. It is a voluntary responsibility. When you chose to have children you agreed to the rules.

Antivaccine types should be exiled to a remote island because they don't understand how society works.

Condolences to those who lost in the vaccine lottery. I'm not changing my position on this.