I like their videos, too and subscribe to their channel. The sales pitch doesn't bother me, though, because I love it when I see people coming up with ways outside of the rat race to support themselves and their families. Go capitalism! I've bought a couple of their books.

 

I've bought a couple of their books too and I am subbed to their channel, just don't care for the sales pitch at the beginning but love the info.

 

If you are a doctor;
If you have the diagnostic equipment to determine which bacteria / virus is present;
then you would know if you needed a gram+ or gram- antibiotic;
and you could then make an intelligent decision of which antibiotic to use.

Otherwise we are discussing; you get sick, so you randomly guess which antibiotic to use. Random use will give you random results.

 

Qft

I wish more folks would understand this

 

I stock a selection of antibiotics, some vaccines and tetanus shots. I use these primarily with our livestock. I understand how they work. My point is that say you load up with penicillin-G, there is no guarantee that your next bug will be effected by penicillin.

Vaccines are designed so specific, there is no way swine vaccines should be used on people.

 

...there is no way swine vaccines should be used on people.

My ex-wife was a swine!:upsidedown:

 

All valid points but Im still going to lay in as many diff anti bios as I can lay hands on...y'all do what you want

 

Once again all the tools in the world will not help if you don't have the knowledge how to use them. I have been in the medical field many years and I do have some knowledge in this area, however I still smile every time I stop and think of the fact I have a doctor and dentist in my group. Still without labs to find out exactly what you are dealing with antibiotics will not always work the way we hope.
That being said, having a supply is a good idea, as long as you also get some education as to their use.

 

I jave never done a Trake or vented a fail (sp?) Chest.

Never the less I have a large guage needle in my kit.

I may find someone trained without the kit, or I may be in a position of "nothing to loose by not trying"


I have the 2nd edition of the survival medicine handbook and consider it worth the $

 

I subscribe to the Army school of thought. Take a knee drink water... If that fails Tylenol.. No matter what the problem ied? Gsw? Amputation?social disease?

But seriously if your planning on a situation where fish rx is an option, then things probably aren't warm and fuzzy and to me stocking and using them is stacking deck in your favor vs not having option.

 

Then change your socks :- )

 

I am truly baffled by what part of "SHTF", "no medical services available" some of you aren't getting. Look, feel free to not stock antibiotics if you like, but to sit here and suggest that somehow it is better to watch your child die of infection from a cut foot instead of treating it with antibiotics when you see streaks starting to run up the leg is so absurd that it almost makes me think some of you just want to troll a thread and picked this one for the heck of it. Is there anyone real here?

Is there anyone here stocking antibiotics who hasn't also taken the time to learn the basics? Is there anyone that doesn't have the Nurses' Guide or some other guide to help you figure out which antibiotic to give, in what doses, and what allergies you should be concerned with and the contraindications? No? No one here like that? That's what I thought.

 

Amen! I agree, if others want to do without antibiotic for themselves and their family then so be it. I think you're right, this thread is beginning to see some distinct troll activity.

 

I made sure to research all the info on my antibiotics. Son then took the info to work and discussed it with the hospital pharmacist. All is OK> I keep the info in zip bag with the med it refers to and dosage. I don't use a lot of anti-biotics and also have a lot of ointments for small sores or wounds that I use and keep the hard stuff for real emergencies.

 

what about the ancient use of honey as a natural antibiotic? is it worthless or does it have some merit as a topical agent?

 

Only one form of honey has passed rigorous testing to show value as a topical healing agent.

Manuka honey from New Zealand. It is extremely expensive too. Like $30 for a half pound jar of medical grade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mānuka_honey

At that kind of pricing the market abounds with counterfeits. It also costs a whole lot more than proven topical cremes and ointments.

 

Manuka honey is expensive. It also works.

I have personally treated a stubbornly resistant, painful leg ulcer in a cancer patient that months of "proven" creams and ointments and powders had failed to heal at all. It outdid them by a large margin. I think it would have healed it completely if he had lived long enough for it to do so. As it was, it healed it enough to make his last couple of months a whole lot more comfortable than the preceding couple had been.

I have personally had two fairly large and deep 2nd-degree burns treated in the course of my lifetime. One had cutting-edge treatment by the head of a major burn center (WC case). I found the whole process fairly miserable, and it took several years for all evidence to disappear. The second, and actually larger and in places deeper one, was treated at home with nothing but manuka honey. (No insurance at the time.) It was far less painful, dressing changes hurt not at all, mechanical debridement was unnecessary, it healed faster, and it left behind no residual scarring or even discoloration just 3 months later. And the total cost of the manuka treatment was a very small fraction of what a midnight ER visit, silver sulfadiazene, fancy dressings, and a followup doctor's visit or two would have cost.

Anecdotal evidence, I agree. But speaking personally, there will always be a jar of medical-grade manuka in my first-aid supplies. More especially so because I happen to have bad cutaneous reactions to antibiotic ointments such as Neosporin and Bacitracin. (I assume the reaction may be to the ointment base, since I have no known problem with oral antibiotics, but whatever the cause, any application of anything like that results in a very painful, highly inflamed cut or whatever that takes longer to heal and scars more.)

YMMV, everyone is different, I am not a licensed MD, I offer no guarantees, I simply report my personal experience, and so forth and so on.

 

I do not deny the medical profession's contribution to the problem. I just note that it was not doctors and is not doctors shoveling out all that lobbying money to keep massive antibiotic use alive and well in all our livestock.

I personally believe the window for keeping antibiotics as an effective part of the medical arsenal has been permanently and irrevocably missed. The 20th century will live on in memory as a golden age in medicine. By the 22nd century, if not earlier, we will confront a medical landscape harking back to the 19th when it comes to ability to fight common infections, barring some new medical breakthrough before then equal to the discovery of penicillin. While antibiotics do remain at least somewhat effective, though, there will definitely be some in my medical prep supplies. I don't ordinarily use them at all, for anything (I don't ordinarily use even an aspirin in the course of a year), but I would want the option available in a SHTF scenario.

 

If this was only about meds that people stored for TEOTWAWKI events you wouldn't see me so forceful on this issue. But in my years being here I've seen numerous posts of people talking about how they already take them because they don't want to pay to go to a doctor and I see others who seem fine with the idea that any disaster warrants using them, even if they think society would rebound fast. Too any people here are too willing to reach for them. There isn't a culture of no here with a proper line in the sand for using them. The only plausible reason I see regular folks having stores of them is for absolutely the full breakdown of society with no expectation of it returning for years. Even then I would only see the value in having them to place in the hands of someone with realistic experience at using them professionally. Anything lower than that bar I see as a direct bodily threat to me and mine.

We are already screwing up with antibiotics in the modern times.

Imagine when everyone starts thinking they can use them as well as anyone else. India is a perfect case study in that.

 

Well, I understand those without medical insurance going the do-it-yourself route. I also don't think most of those people have the necessary knowledge to use antibiotics really intelligently, but that can also be an it's-this-or-nothing situation.

I'd be willing to see antibiotics totally regulated if a) that meant also totally regulated with very, very restricted allowable use in animals and b) regulated, but very cheaply and quickly available to any human in need--and not available for frivolous use by others just because they can afford to stump up a few hundred for a private doctor's visit.

Neither condition is currently true in this country, nor looks likely to become true.

 

Well, I understand those without medical insurance going the do-it-yourself route. I also don't think most of those people have the necessary knowledge to use antibiotics really intelligently, but that can also be an it's-this-or-nothing situation.

My stance then is "or nothing". If you aren't able to use antibiotics properly then you shouldn't have them. I'm for putting them on the scheduled list, where the opioids and intoxicants reside, that without an active script it is a felony to possess them.

Yes, I know what I'm saying when I say "or nothing". Better to let the people die rather than create a superbug. I'm fully aware that when it comes to infectious disease my normally libertarian creed switches over to an iron fisted totalitarian stance.

I'd be willing to see antibiotics totally regulated if a) that meant also totally regulated with very, very restricted allowable use in animals and b) regulated, but very cheaply and quickly available to any human in need--and not available for frivolous use by others just because they can afford to stump up a few hundred for a private doctor's visit.

Antibiotics are already cheap as just about every one of them is sold in generic form. You are paying their true cost and market value, not a price controlled by a company. The problem is people simply do not want to pay for a doctor's visit. That is a completely different debate and not the drug companies' fault. People wanting an antibiotics should be paying for a doctor's visit and the associated lab work to prove they are needed. Otherwise they shouldn't be allowed to have them.

I do find it ironic, however, that you'd encourage the use of antibiotic cream for a minor cut that would likely heal with a simple washing with non-antibiotic soap and water and maybe some peroxide &/or alcohol.

Alcohol and peroxide have been found to cause tissue damage when used for wound cleaning. That's more injury to the injury. The best choice would be a proper wound wash fluid, like sterile saline. But that stuff is getting hard to obtain legally. The triple antibiotic creme should not be an automatic choice. Dirty conditions and how the cut was made would factor into this. If you truly can wash it clean without causing new damage AND keep it clean until it full scabs over then you can skip the creme. Might even do better switching to something like shark liver oil ointment. Preparation H makes a pretty darn good wound healing ointment.

 

I have experienced 'medical professionals' handing out antibiotics without much concern for whether it was the exact correct one or not. Corpsmen with a few months of training treat a community of men who are mostly 18 to 24 year olds. For the most part it works. Though I think a big factor here is that they are all 18 to 24 year olds.

When it does not work so well, if you get disabled by their fumbling, the military can process you out, and eventually you get to be treated by a medical professional who has a college degree.

I agree that as a culture, we use too much antibiotics, too freely. Which has given rise to things like MRSA.

I can also see where we have not been developing as many new antibiotics in recent years.



I am an organic farmer, I am around organic people most of the time. My observation with organic / herbal treatments is that they may work, but they work slowly.

When a herb has been useful for centuries to treat a given disease. Find the chemical compound in that herb, synthesis it from coal-tar in pure crystalline form. The pharmaceutical you going to be given is 100X stronger then it was in the plant you can grow in your garden.

I have herbs in my garden now where this is exactly the case. I can grow medicinal herbs, but the healing power they represent is very dilute in direct comparison to pharmaceutical grade drugs.

 

Before you perform a tracheotomy or cricoidthyroidotomy I suggest you learn how to spell the terms. It is not a "Trake" and it is a "flail" chest not "fail". And from what it sounds like You lack even the most basic first aid knowledge so I suggest you take an EMT course at your local community college and then you will be a help not a hinderance in an emergency.

 

You only need four basic antibiotics: Amoxicillin, Oxytetracycline, Cephalosporin, and maybe Chloroamphenicol for the really bad bugs. You could add Ciprro if you are worried about anthrax but I would not sweat that too much. I am more concerned about MRSA and flesh-eating strep - both of which can be defeated by the above antibiotics. Doing a culture and sensitivity in the field is a joke. You need a sterile lab with an incubator and some drug-sensitivity discs to find out what grows on the agar and what doesn't so forget about doing a culture in an emergency - that is advice from the ignorant.
The big cardinal signs of an infection needing antibiotics is redness, pus, pain and maybe fever. If you do not have a fever and you feel sick then start thinking viral and don't waste your antibiotics. Viral infections typically do not cause high fevers - bacterial infections do - so take temperatures. Anything over 101 then treat with an antibiotic empiracally in an emergency.
IMHO - (6 yrs as Navy OR Tech incl combat in Nam, 15 yrs as Board-cert Physician's Assistant, 10 yrs as EMT-III (ALS)

 

I always warn people that the cycline drugs are toxic after expiration. I personally won't even stock them. Other antibiotics can be taken after expiration, but the efficacy may be lessened. (In other words, it may take a higher dose to achieve the same level of affect after expiration.) Your best bet, obviously, is to not use expired drugs if it can be avoided...but in the case of cycline drugs...NEVER use them.

I would consider Cipro a definite one to stock as well. It's still able to break through many antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria.

Also, standard of care with may docs now now is not to treat with antibiotics unless there has been a fever of greater than 102 for at least 3 days. With infants or those with compromised immune systems, then they'll treat with lower temps...but I wouldn't waste limited supplies in a SHTF situation for a 101 fever. I wouldn't even treat with antipyretics at that level.

You only need four basic antibiotics: Amoxicillin, Oxytetracycline, Cephalosporin, and maybe Chloroamphenicol for the really bad bugs. You could add Ciprro if you are worried about anthrax but I would not sweat that too much.
The big cardinal signs of an infection needing antibiotics is redness, pus, pain and maybe fever. If you do not have a fever and you feel sick then start thinking viral and don't waste your antibiotics. Viral infections typically do not cause high fevers - bacterial infections do - so take temperatures. Anything over 101 then treat with an antibiotic empiracally in an emergency.
IMHO - (6 yrs as Navy OR Tech incl combat in Nam, 15 yrs as Board-cert Physician's Assistant, 10 yrs as EMT-III (ALS)

 

BTW - FYI
If you are using vet antibiotics then be aware that if they say "USP" then that is U.S. Pharmacopia which simply means it is pure and that is what you look for. Most vet antibiotics are exactly the same as used for humans and "U.S.P."- however, the bulk fish antibiotics are not and may not be as "clean" as true vet prescription antibiotics due to storage and handling as they typically are not in sterile containers. Doesn't mean they won't work but does mean you need to store them in a clean, dry, temp-controlled place or they will breakdown quickly when exposed to the air and humidity.

 

We were at our cabin when my gf was bit by a dog. In spite of cleaning the wound and keeping it clean, three days later, it turned pink, was hot to the touch and swelled up to twice its normal size. Vet antibiotics cured the infection in 24 hours. Yes, we didn't stop the mess when the swelling went down. Went another week until it was more or less healed.

Common sense, a few books and asking questions of my PCP made that possible.

 

I have only seen one other person mention it here:
"I am an organic farmer, I am around organic people most of the time. My observation with organic / herbal treatments is that they may work, but they work slowly."
Thank you ForrestBeeKeeper.
I recently had the symptoms of a chest infection - it was most likely aspiration pneumonia, and liberal doses of garlic (three cloves per day) and Mullen capsules, 00 capsule (three times per day), and Mullen tea two to three cups a day, had it cleared up in 10 days.
We all cop out the doctor for over prescribing antibiotics, but we are at fault. Every time we get a runny nose, an ear ache, whatever, we run to the doctor to have them "do something".
Our best friend in a SHTF situation will be a healthy body and immune system. A strong knowledge of Herbal Medicines will be invaluable in a TEOTWAWKI as eventually you WILL run out of manufactured medication. What will you pass on to your children in that situation?

 

We all cop out the doctor for over prescribing antibiotics, but we are at fault. Every time we get a runny nose, an ear ache, whatever, we run to the doctor to have them "do something".

Many people do, but no, all of us don't. I certainly don't. In fact, it turned out I had had double pneumonia for a month back when I was 14 before I finally admitted I needed to see a doctor and take some antibiotics, and I haven't changed much in that respect in the many decades since. The few times I have taken antibiotics, it was because I was very sick and nothing else was working.

Antibiotics, however, have saved many lives that were previously lost in spite of all the known natural and prescription remedies before they were available. They truly were miracle drugs, and it's a shame the miracle has been squandered so quickly and so foolishly.

If you'll look at the timeline info IamZeke provided, you will see mass production of penicillin beginning in the 1940s, and its use in food animals simply to speed growth rather than treat any illness beginning in that same decade--with the appearance of widespread problematic penicillin-resistant organisms within a few years after that. And so it has gone ever since. Just incredibly stupid.

What will happen when the manufactured medicines run out? More people will learn how to use the remaining herbal/natural remedies. And no matter how many people learn about those, many more people will die.

 

Shelf life and refrigerated? storage of fish ABs?

how long can they be stored and how?

 

how long can they be stored and how?

That depends on what you have. Get yourself a comprehensive drug guide and do some specific research for what you're wanting to store. Some drugs need to be refrigerated, others are only good for so many hours after mixing multiple components, etc. If we're just talking basic fish antibiotics you should just read the back of the package, but pretty much any room temperature dry place will work.

 

I am sure the number and severity of infections will skyrocket if the grid goes down and people who normally work in offices and stores and MOST other occupations find themselves chopping wood and skinning animals. In fact MOST people only get infections when they go on camping vacations or do other task that are not familiar to them.

THEN *** consider the spread of disease when dishes can't be washed and toilets can't be flushed. Poor sanitation is the leading cause of death in many underdeveloped nations.

I put antibiotics just under ammo on my priority list.

 

"Prescription drugs retained their potency for as long as 40 years after expiration date"

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=military+study+on+drug+expiration+dates

 

Up here in the high desert, where many of us are pre-chicken pox vaccine, I also keep a couple full courses of valtrex generic for reducing the length of a shingles outbreak. Yes, there is a vaccine, but in a high-stress environment it can fail, and many folks won't take it to begin. I also maintain generic flagyl in case any of us goof our water treatment and end up with giardia.

 

Ok, anyone care to share some suppliers you've had good luck with? it sounds like a Vet Supply is the better bet for quality and quantity, but the ones that I've found all want prescriptions.

 

I have had good results ordering from California Veterinary supplies. These are for my fish of course. Look up on internet and go to list on left side that says antibiotics.