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The following is an excerpt from George Orwell's 1984. If you haven't read the novel, reading this thread will likely spoil the ending for you. I couldn't find a transcript online so I had to retype it myself from a hard copy. I tried to be accurate, but I can not guarantee it:

“[. . .] Shall I tell you why we have brought you here? To cure you! To make you sane! Will you understand, Winston, that no one whom we bring to this place ever leaves our hands uncured? We are not interested in those stupid crimes that you have committed. The Party is not interested in the overt act: the thought is all we care about. We do not merely destroy our enemies; we change them. Do you understand what I mean by that?”
He was standing over Winston. His face looked enormous because of its nearness, and hideously ugly because it was seen from below. Moreover it was filled with a sort of exaltation, a lunatic intensity. Again Winston’s heart shrank. If it had been possible he would have cowered deeper into the bed. He felt certain that O’Brien was about to twist the dial out of sheer wantonness. At this moment, however, O’Brien turned away. He took a pace or two up and down. Then he continued less vehemently:
“The first thing for you to understand is that in this place there are no martyrdoms. You have read of the religious persecutions in the past. In the Middle Ages there was the Inquisition. It was a failure. It set out to eradicate heresy, and ended up perpetuating it. For every heretic it burned at the stake, thousands of others rose up. Why was that? Because the Inquisition killed its enemies in the open, and killed them while they were still unrepentant; in fact, it killed them because they were unrepentant. Men were dying because they would not abandon their true beliefs. Naturally, all glory belonged to the victim, and all the shame to the Inquisitor who burned him. Later, in the twentieth century, there were the totalitarians, as they were called. There were the German Nazis and the Russian Communists. The Russians persecuted heresy more cruelly than the Inquisition had done. And they imagined that they had learned from the mistakes of the past. They knew, at any rate, that one must not make martyrs. Before they exposed their victims to public trial, they deliberately set themselves to destroy their dignity. They wore them down by torture and solitude until they were despicable, cringing wretches, confessing whatever was put into their mouths, covering themselves with abuse, accusing and sheltering behind one another, whimpering for mercy. And yet after only a few years the same thing had happened over again. The dead men had become martyrs and their degradation was forgotten. Once again, why was it? In the first place, because the confessions that they had made were obviously extorted and untrue. We do not make mistakes of that kind. All the confessions that are uttered here are true. We make them true. And, above all we do not allow the dead to rise up against us. You must stop imagining that posterity will vindicate you, Winston. Posterity will never hear of you. You will be lifted clean out from the stream of history. We shall turn you into a gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you: not a name in a register, not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past as well as in the future. You will never have existed.”
Then why bother to torture me? thought Winston, with a momentary bitterness. O’Brien checked his step as though Winston had uttered the thought aloud. His large ugly face came nearer, with the eyes a little narrowed.
“You are thinking,” he said, “that since we intend to destroy you so utterly, so that nothing that you say or do can make the smallest difference—in that case, why do we go through the trouble of interrogating you first? That is what you were thinking, was it not?”
“Yes,” said Winston.
O’Brien smiled slightly. “You are a flaw in the pattern, Winston. You are a stain that must be wiped out. Did I not tell you just now that we are different from the persecutors of the past? We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil, and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. [. . .]”


Thoughts?
 

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There's no transcript because the book is not open to the public yet.

You should check out the Australian Gutenberg.org.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There's no transcript because the book is not open to the public yet.

You should check out the Australian Gutenberg.org.
I realize that, but the letter of the law has never physically prevented people from posting copyrighted material before. I just figured that it would have been posted by one of the (many) anarchists who worship Orwell. Plus, I'm pretty sure it's legal--in the ' States at least--to post excerpts and being that this is one of the more thought provoking parts of the novel I thought I stood a decent chance of finding a digitized version.
 

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You might want to check out this thread on copyright infringement, it applies here, oh and use the enter key.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=30353&highlight=copywright
You're just being argumentative and bitter. If you have a problem with the format, you'll have to take it up with Orwell: the punctuation, indentation and hard returns are as accurate as I could make them. I think this excerpt falls under fair use, though I am not a lawyer.
 

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Christian
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You're just being argumentative and bitter. If you have a problem with the format, you'll have to take it up with Orwell: the punctuation, indentation and hard returns are as accurate as I could make them. I think this excerpt falls under fair use, though I am not a lawyer.
actually I was being quite serious, did you read kevs thread? And this does not fall under fair use, and we realize your not a lawyer.
 

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Christian
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If you had read the first sentence of your link, you'd see that it's fine as long as you cite the source. That's pretty standard.
OK you guys are the experts. Later
 

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I have never read the book, but based on this small section, it really reminds me of the book of Esther, especially in regards to how the people were not only getting destroyed, but also how they were converting on their own free will due to fear.

Esther
8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.


Then notice what happens in the next chapter... utter destruction. Esther 9:16 says they killed 75,000 people.
 

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they weren't talking about physically killing him, by becoming one of them, you submit, and therefore are killed in spirit, you are not you, you are them.
 

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Iēsous
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Not sure about religious implications unless your referring to atheists:)

But that book really affected me......I think they should have made us read it

when we were older........it affected me, maybe cause i was studying the final solution and the SS then .

Nazi pigs
 

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they weren't talking about physically killing him, by becoming one of them, you submit, and therefore are killed in spirit, you are not you, you are them.
Perhaps, but can you genuinely make a choice and not have it be your own? If you genuinely submit then you are still you, but you have changed.
 

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Perhaps, but can you genuinely make a choice and not have it be your own? If you genuinely submit then you are still you, but you have changed.
Yeah, you are still you in some small, subtle sort of way. It's just no one will see it that way.
 

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Firearm Enthusiast
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Great book. I read it when I was 17 and it had a profound impact on me.

I don't think this book really has any religious implications, although I can't say for sure because it's been a while since I read it.

Perhaps, but can you genuinely make a choice and not have it be your own? If you genuinely submit then you are still you, but you have changed.
I concur.
 
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