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Much time has passed since I posted in here. I needed to step away from online religion for awhile.

Still a Godless Heathen. That's actually the title I'm giving it, now. I doubt I'd even call it "pagan" anymore. Sure, there are 8 holy days on top of the secular holidays we all have, and I'm still doing earth centered pagan observance for every holiday, secular or no. But, there are no Gods for me, still.

Laci the Godless Heathen. At your service.
 

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A guy in Brisbane deviated from the standard house plans and ended up building his own three story castle. Ritual on the top floor.

A neoDruid ritual on a farm. Most pleasant pagan ambiance I ever felt.

I would like to know more about the Druids, real stuff, not modern versions/opinions if that makes sense.
 

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New Days New Tribes
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I would like to know more about the Druids, real stuff, not modern versions/opinions if that makes sense.
Little is known about the Druids of the ancients. It's because of that, that so much weird stuff gets passed off as modern Druidism.

Some books, e.g. by Hutton, are good if you want to read.

The long and the short of it is that, best guess, the ancient 'Celts' (or at least those areas sharing dialect variations that included words indicating the presence of Druids), had what could vaguely be referred to as caste structure societies. 'Druids' were the intellectual levels of society who were not the warriors, farmers, carpenters, etc. They were in charge of history, genealogy, politics, community religious obligations, ambassadorial roles, science, etc. Essentially, those who learn as much as they can about as many subjects as they are responsible for, to be an asset to their communities in general and their rulers specifically.

John Michael Greer's idea of Green Wizardry might be close, especially to what his group would class as Ovates.
 

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Thank you smudge and Donii mann for the info. Shortly into the video I realized I have previously watched it, and really enjoyed that one. I watched it again it is very good. Couple things I remembered, their idea of heaven or the afterlife being down in the earth is fascinating and reminded me of the Emerald Tablets. Seems a fair number of the old faiths thought this. In the tablets it is described as descending and coming out into the light, rather than ascending. Very interesting that in a later faith, down is associated with hell, rather than 'heaven' or where we would want to go, or where we go.

thank you I appreciate the book recommendations, I have read that about there being very little information available sadly.


What sort or name of gods were worshipped, if any? I also wondered about the association with the oak tree. Is this a type of reference as a Tree of Life, or something other?
 

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New Days New Tribes
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Keep in mind that ideas about heaven, afterlife varied depending upon region. While an inland Celt or Druid might have viewed it as entered via the underground, those close to the coast might have (e.g Ireland) viewed it as being under the ocean, or at least starting there. Similar to the Norse view of those drowning at sea going to the realm of Ran. And while one part of Ireland might view it being under the sea, others viewed it as being on islands in the sea. But continental Celts would think of the other world being in mounds, though there is evidence of coastal continental Celts believing in an island afterworld realm called Affalon (possibly Britain).

Oh, and some Irelanders viewed the entrance points (Sidhe) being under their own ground, though I think Red Hugh drowned in a river and entered via a river sidhe.
 

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Very interesting, thank you Donii Mann. Do you think all these similiarities come from the idea that the 'river of life' begins in the earth, and cycles around?

I just went to search for Greer's site, and this sounds definitely worth a read- wondering if anyone has read this-


The Long Descent: A User's Guide to the End of the Industrial Age


I love the Ireland info, I have begun reading what there is of the mythologies, I realized it will take me awhile to get everyone straight in my head, much like the Egyptian king lists, mind reeling. Interesting thing I found the other day, is both sides of my family- half mother and all of father, are both from Clan MacTavish. I plan to look into the interesting history of that.

eta: sorry for the typos
 

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New Days New Tribes
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Greer is excellent for his futurist writings. I use his views as a starting point, tweaked in light of whatever I come across that seems more correct at the time. Survival of the most flexible. But his Druidism is not related to the historical Druids. The order that he heads - Ancient Order of Druids America, is a modern fraternal order that grew from the neoDruid movement of the last couple hundred years. Doesn't make it wrong, since he doesn't claim a link to the ancients, and different religions suit different people.

neoDruid orders run the length from nothing like the ancients, to those who try based on the best scholarship they can come up with (reconstructionists) and those who try to make it relevant to the time and place they are based on good scholarship (reconnectionists).

As for rivers of life. I think religion evolves like language. Time and distance equal change big or small. Heck, in Britain the earliest folk cycled through cremation, burial and getting popped into urns (not necessarily in that order), in the same tribes, within generations.

No, I think it was simply a case of people developing their spirituality based on the world around them, modified as they got exposed to new ideas from far away. This makes more sense than the one god one heaven model. Reality is different geographical regions, different modes of travel, different cultures, all on one planet. So, one spiritual universe might be entered by boat at one point, on foot through another porthole. The Irishman of a thousand years ago would have arrived in the section his ancestors did, and a Chinese woman would have ended up where her ancestors did.

Nowadays there would be multicultural pieces of spiritual real estate.
 

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Silent Bob
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Much time has passed since I posted in here. I needed to step away from online religion for awhile.

Still a Godless Heathen. That's actually the title I'm giving it, now. I doubt I'd even call it "pagan" anymore. Sure, there are 8 holy days on top of the secular holidays we all have, and I'm still doing earth centered pagan observance for every holiday, secular or no. But, there are no Gods for me, still.

Laci the Godless Heathen. At your service.
Dont feel bad Laci I have been studying Wicca/Paganism for 15 years and I have never found a pantheon to follow. The only pantheon I have any actual interest in is the Babylonian, but I think that has more to do with me reading the Necronomican when I was 16. On my alter I set up 4 brass candle holders for the elements and then 3 in the center (The Lord, The Lady and the center one that represents all.)
 

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Dont feel bad Laci I have been studying Wicca/Paganism for 15 years and I have never found a pantheon to follow. The only pantheon I have any actual interest in is the Babylonian, but I think that has more to do with me reading the Necronomican when I was 16. On my alter I set up 4 brass candle holders for the elements and then 3 in the center (The Lord, The Lady and the center one that represents all.)
I did that for a long time, too. Back when I started with Wicca, eclectics were just starting to come out and most of them were looked down upon by the trads. The in-fighting was insane. Today, my altar is nothing more than a seasonal display with candles and incense on it. It gets changed 4 times a year on the solstices and equinoxes and then certain things get added for the cross quarter days. Like I put up the autumn decor a few days before autumn equinox and then add jack o lanterns and pumpkins to it close to All Hallow's Eve. I take the jacks off after All Hallow's and it stays autumn until December 5th, when the winter solstice stuff comes out.
 

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Yes Laci, I remember feeling sorta jealous of those who practice Asatru or Voudoun where the gods really do reach out to you & give you a sense of belonging. Being part of such old traditions with such continuity makes a person feel real anchored to their religion, their community, and way of life.
 

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I have another question if everyone would indulge me, does anyone know of a pre-christian version of The Voyage of Bran? I have read what I can find, but it is stated that it most likely is redacted in places, and I think those are somewhat easy to spot in the text, but I wondered what the text said prior to this- were those portions added or was existing text altered? I wondered about any source location- net, books, relative's telling, even fragments. Some very interesting stuff there. thanks all
 

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Some very cool stuff, this is credit to B for finding

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/odin/odin-hp.htm

Check this out about Odin....

The primary and most comprehensive lay of the Elder Edda, Voluspa, is addressed to Odin, the divine pilgrim, who traverses the worlds, searching the depths of matter for experience, runes of truth. For Odin is individual as well as universal. On the planetary level he is the guiding spirit of the planet Mercury; he is at once the inner god of every being on earth and the divine messenger, Hermod, who is also his son and corresponds to the Greek Hermes. [my add(Egyptian Thoth)(Hebrew Enoch)]

As Odin occurs on many levels — as a creative power in all the worlds, the Logos of classic Greek philosophy, and also as the informer of human spirit — he is omnipresent and is to be found at all stages of existence, sometimes disguised, often under different names, but always recognizable.

believer0119
So Thor is electricity....read also what it says about his sons......positive and negative

In the vastness of space Thor is Trudgalmer (sound of Thor), the sustaining energy (Fohat of Oriental philosophy) that organizes cosmos out of chaos and sets the galactic pinwheels churning. Trud or Thor is the impelling force which keeps atoms in motion and, like the Hindu Vishnu, maintains all things in action during their lifetimes. The hammer of Thor is Mjolnir (miller), the pulverizing force that destroys as well as creates. It is the electric circuit which always returns to the hand that sent it forth. Symbolized by the svastika, either three- or four-armed, it represents whirling motion, the ever moving power which never ceases while anything lives in time and space.

Trudgalmer has two sons: Mode (force) and Magne (strength), which suggest the two poles of electricity or magnetism on the cosmic level. Everything connected with Thor repeats the duality of bipolar power. His sons, centrifugal and centripetal action, manifest as radiation and gravitation in all forms of life. In the human arena we know these forces as hate and love, repulsion and attraction. Thor's iron belt forms the circuit for electrical current; his two steel gloves imply the duality of positive and negative polarity. His chariot wheels send sparks of lightning through the skies; for this reason, when traveling abroad he is unable to use the rainbow bridge of the gods, Bifrost, (2) as his lightnings would set the bridge on fire; he must therefore ford the waters (of space) that separate the worlds from one another. This apparently poses no problem to the god, so it is perplexing to find one lay devoted entirely to a rather monotonous exchange of braggadocio between Thor and the ferryman Harbard whom Thor is trying to persuade to convey him across a river. It is evidently a ploy to demonstrate the need of a conductor to convey electric power. (The lay is not included here.) On the planet earth Thor's action is served by his two adopted children, Tjalfe (speed) and Roskva (work), familiar servants of our power-hungry civilization.
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Quote:
Odin is called Ofner (opener) at the beginning of a phase of life, when he is inseparable from Orgalmer, the keynote whose reverberations multiply into a cosmos. This systolic beat of the cosmic heart should be followed in due time by a diastole when, the expansion consummated, the gods withdraw once more into the heart of Being, and indeed this is confirmed: at the end of life Odin is Svafner (closer), linked with Bargalmer (the noise of fruition). This matter-giant is "ground on the mill" — homogenized to formlessness, annihilated as matter with remarkable similarity to what science now calls a black hole. He is also said to be "placed on a boatkeel and saved" — an allegory reminiscent of the Noachian flood, which also ensures the renewal of life forms after a dissolution. This may quite possibly be how the funeral custom originated of placing a dead chieftain on his pyre ship and letting the burning vessel drift out to sea.
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In competition with these, Dvalin with the aid of Loki creates for Odin the magic spear which never falls its mark when wielded by the pure in heart. This is the evolutionary will, often symbolized by a spear, sometimes by a sword. It is the inborn urge in every living being to grow and progress toward a more advanced condition. There is in this a mystic implication of sacrifice as Odin, transfixed on the Tree of Life, is also pierced by a spear. The spear thrust has been inflicted on other crucified saviors as well.





 

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http://arthistory.knoji.com/the-mystery-of-celtic-cultural-legacy-magic-and-metamorphosis/Image Credit

This wide eyed animal head, probably a bull's, is a bronze mount from a 3rd century BCE wooden wine flask found at Brno-Malomerice in the Czech Republic. The protagonists of Celtic myth often transformed themselves into animals.

The interest in magical transformation among the Celts may be rooted in a feeling for the fluidity of the cosmos-the malleability of the boundaries between this world and the next. Movement between the mortal world and the Otherworld was thought to take place at certain special times of year. In Irish myth, the hero Oengus assumed the form of a swan to follow his lover into the Otherworld on the feast of Samhain, when the barriers between the two realms were at their most fluid.



Rebirth into a new life through metamorphosis is also touched upon in the tale of Oengus. The hero’s brother Midir was unable to resist falling in love with the beautiful maiden Etain. This brought on the wrath of Midir’s first wife, who, in a fit of jealousy, transformed Etain into a huge red fly. Oengus took pity on the girl and partly undid the magic by allowing her to return to human form each night after dark. But the wife was not satisfied with this, and one day sent a strong wind to blow the fly into the wilderness. After many years, Etain fell into a cup of wine and was swallowed. This allowed her to be reborn as a beautiful maid. When eventually Midir found her again, Etain was the wife of the king of Ireland and oblivious to her previous life. By tricking the king into letting him kiss Etain, Midir reminded the girl of her past life and she fell in love with him again. Both turned into swans and flew away to Midir’s home.

As the stories of Oengus, Midir, and Etain illustrate, birds were frequently the result of human mutation in Celtic belief. Another tale relates how the Children of Lir were magically transformed into swans by their wicked stepmother and sang in the Otherworld. Images of a carrion bird perched on the back of a horse, which appear on Iron Age coins from Brittany, may reflect Celtic tradition known form Ireland in which battle goddesses assume the form of crows and ravens, particularly at the time of a warrior’s death. The Irish war goddesses may also appear as beautiful young women or ugly hags-they take on their hideous aspect after they have been wronged in some way.













A stone image of a Gaulish god, found at Euffigneix, Haute-Marne, France, and thoughts the date from the 1st and 2nd century BCE. The presence of the torc around the neck identifies the figure as a deity-probably of nature. The boar impression in its right side indicates that the essences of the god and the animal were believed to be inseparable.

Welsh legend abounds in accounts of magical shapeshifting. In one story, magicians create a beautiful woman, Blodeuwedd, out of flowers. However, she later proves unfaithful, so the magicians punish her by turning her into an owl, believed to be a creature of the evil forces of darkness. Another tale recounts how Lleu, a Welsh hero, turns into an eagle after being struck with a spear, but recovers his human form through the care of his magician uncle. Culhwch, another hero, must face a giant boar (a transformed king who would not mend his evil ways) in order to retrieve a comb, scissors, and razor so that the father of his bride-to-be may groom himself for the wedding.
 
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