I don't know what to say brother.

There is a lot of support in the military - so much that we each become a small cog in the big machine. Not to say that we are not able to think anymore, US Soldiers and Marines do think.

But on the outside, we have too much freedom of movement. There is no longer a paved pathway that keeps us on the straight and narrow. We have become an indoor cat who is now lost in the back yard.

We can become overwhelmed with opportunities and options. We don't have support of the medics checking the purity of water in the buffalos. We have to do everything ourselves. All the support that goes with the structure has been removed and our lives can become a house of cards.

Poker anyone?

 

Pretty much the same here, I have all these incredibly anti social skills that if I use them I would go to jail.

Bounced from job to job for a little bit, the hardest adjustment was getting used to people having an absolute lack of discipline or sense of honor, no one is willing to truly "do whatever it takes' to get things done.

I went into Law Enforcement but I got tired of dealing with people who cannot handle the simplest of situations without calling the police, 99% of police work is dealing with stupid BS, only 1% has to do with actual crime. The more I am around civilians the less I like people in general, lost cause.

I think if the service members really know who they were "defending" quite a few would have taken a different career path, some people just aren't worth the effort.

 

That's a big one for me. I can't stand "civvies"....


I make no attempt to make friends or "network" which probably is a bad thing when trying to find a job that's finally a "good fit" for me (which THE only job that fit me was being a Marine)....


....I feel like I am the only one that REALLY sees this craphole for what it is while everyone else is walking around shopping for useless crap, worrying about stupid, pointless **** in life that doesn't matter and going off about stuff I have no interest to hear about all while ditty-bopping to some Lady Gaga and jibbering about "Jersey Shore" or whatever retarded show that is....

....yet these completely oblivious morons have frikin everything given to them. No worries in life. Living it up. I just don't get it.

 

On the contrary, you're not stupid. You're smarter than most. You recognize that you need some help and perhaps a break, so are asking your peers for some direction and advice.

Look for small victories. They add up. Measure yourself against where you were 6 months or 6 weeks ago.

Like isn't linear. It's filled with sprints and setbacks. You're in retrograde right now. That could change tomorrow. Or the next day. Or the day after that.

The most important strength is mental. Don't give up. Ever.

 

I spent 10 years in the Teams and left unexpectedly after a skull fracture and neurological problems.

All at once I lost my career, my house, my health, got divorced, and ended up one angry mother****er! :taped:

Since then in '00, I've been in construction earning low wages in rough conditions. Went from working with some of the best, brightest, motivated people to working with crack heads and drunks. Talk about culture shock! :rofl:

All I can say is keep driving on. Take it One day at a time. What's worked for me is to keep using the discipline and motivation that was valued in the military and apply it to the civilian work world.

Some employers value it, others just need a body. If you find yourself working for a scumbag, look for another job. I've let my stubbornness and drive to succeed keep me at a job that I should have left long ago.

Good Luck

 

Look at the bright side. You could be a Vietnam Vet, and not only would you feel the way you do now, but people would have been hating you and calling you a drug crazed, psychotic, baby killer.
Anybody ever spit on you while you were in an airport in uniform?
Not that I feel like I'm a "victim" or anything. But I don't feel much empathy for guys my age that never served in the military.

 

I've had only one strange experience where this group of folks "turned me off" after finding out I was a former Marine....


....but otherwise, nothing like that. Thank goodness. I would have "snapped" if it was seriously like it was back then....

....not to poke fun but it would be something out of "First Blood"......running down Main Street USA with an M60 and a couple hundred rounds belted around me tearing **** up.....

...I have alot of support from my wife's family but that only goes so far and you don't want to be a burden. Just want to be my own man, on my own feet, supporting my own family and no matter how hard I try....just seems out of reach...

...one of those days. Thanks for the ear, brother.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Getting away from school for years makes it harder to go back. When it comes to the brain, it is a use it or lose it. The good news is that it's not gone forever. Try going back again, but maybe PT rather than FT until you find balance. Then you might consider adding a class. I don't know where you went the first time, but make sure you go someplace that's geared towards adults. Most community colleges and some state schools don't know how to deal with adults with life experience.

As for the lack of motivation, it sounds like you might be depressed, which would not be surprising giving your recent history. Depression doesn't have to be the overwhelming, "can't get out of bed" kind that most people think of. It can be "exhaution." Please consider seeing someone, and not an MD - most are not trained to diagnose treat depression. Sometimes just awareness of depression can help lessen it.

You've taken some hits, but you have a lot of strengths. You're able to support your family even through the struggle, you had a solid service record, you understand hard work, have values, and you keep trying. You've shown a lot of resilience. I'm sure you have many more strengths. Don't forget about them; use them.

 

They go about life without a clue because most of them have never stared down the barrel of a weapon, or smelled gunpowder and fear in the air, they will never know what it means to truly be alive. There is something about close combat that most will never understand, almost a thrill yet nerve racking all at the same time.

There is something about the bond you develop with people under extreme stress that cannot be replaced.

I eventually got lucky, got decent job bought a house, but I would trade all of it to go back active duty without hesitation.

I do think the key is to use the discipline to your advantage and just drive on, know that a lot of your fellow vets feel exactly the same frustration as you.

Semper Fi

 

every vtime I go to V.A the Dr. always asks "feeling depressed suicidal" So I guess there are alot of vets feeling the way you do. I've went from great jobs and bennifits to **** jobs more than once. hard to stay motivated.. Hang tough. K

 

I haven't been in your position so, no advice. I wish you well and thank you for your service.

 

First off, you should seek the help of a therapist. They get paid to help people in your position and can give you much better advice than anyone on this list.

That said, one thing I can suggest is looking at a line of work totally different than anything you did in the military. I was EOD, my job was blowing things up and disecting bombs. Now? Most days I am surrounded by screaming children at my job and most people would not even believe I was in the Marines without proof.

 

Sounds like you are burned out. It's not a matter of losing your intelligence or thinking power. It's a matter of being over stressed, over worked, and likely under rested.

I am not sure what you are studying career wise, however military personnel, Marines especially are extremely physical people. You may be missing the mark with your studies. Have you thought of going into the physical fitness biz?

There are a ton of ways to do it. For example, a physical therapist's assistant is an easy degree to get, and pays fairly well. A personal training cert is also not difficult to earn.

By going that route, you will be able to focus on a career that begins to rebuild you and will put you in a career environment where you are surrounded by stronger, more positive people at the same time.

You can even sell it to your family as a "Fall Back" job, or a side job to earn extra money while you get back on your feet. Over time, you can build personal training to the point where you won't need another job.

Gyms and health clubs are very popular. I bet in a 25 mile radius of where you are at, you could get any number of entry level positions with a simple personal training cert.

 

I think we just have an adverse reaction to the "American Idol" Syndrome.

I agree with the civvy aspect. Where we expect there to be a structure or at least a plan, we find sheeple. - and by definition, they are clueless. How do you fix that. How can you deal with that. You Can’t.

 

Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Expected. Isnt that what the acronym marine stands for? Just doggin you, because i was in the navy. i have a similar experience. When i got out of the military, the only job i could find was a busboy! I go and serve this country HONORABLY, and then cannot get a job. How messed up is that? I was even to the point of going back and re-enlisting in the marines or army, just so i could do something. Either way, i didnt re-enlist. I found my wife and now i am starting my own security supply company. I guess everything happens for a reason.

 

yip thank God for wifes.

 

I've not served but I find I share many of your comments and objections. I have a close friend who was former Vietnam Vet and an officer and i know he shares your sentiments. But perhaps defining it as a problem about serving in military and coming home is misleading. Perhaps your analysis of whats going wrong in the "domestic" world is accurate and it isn't about whether you served in military. Its just that when you came home you could see it in a more vivid contrast. That's not stoooopid -- thats smart -- but the situation is designed to make people who look more deeply seem out of it. It's a "don't rock the boat" world paid for by big money.

 

It's a "don't rock the boat" world paid for by big money.

Man, is that the truth.

 

All of the vets here understand.

Many cities have some form of VA counseling center, check around and see if you have one near by. Then go.

Where I live the closest thing we have is a VFW post. Really, anytime that any VFW member expresses this, we are all there for him.

 

First time I got out (says something) I landed a big job at a liquor store, lost motivation to go to college, wound up back in. Next time I got out, I had a plan, and executed it - no regrets. Moved overseas running an NGO, bottom dropped out - no plan. Felt adrift. Built back up again, doing great. Decided to come back in again (Chaplain this time). Went to combat with some brother Marines, loved it. Transferred to a "different" kind of unit ... my first "crisis" had a break up text from her boyfriend. I just buried 40 of my brothers, and we're all doing okay, but you get dumped and its the end? ... Yes, even Chaplains have a threshold. But hopefully you get my point - its part of the cycle of life.

Its a season, it'll pass. You're blessed to have family support. What's missing is the challenge to push against, and people you respect to work with. Not telling you to go back in, but embrace who you are and keep pushing for a profession that scratches the itch, pays the bills, and is legal.

 

Yes remember, when others don't understand, your brother and sisters do. The key is always remember that we are always there for each other, in or out of the uniform. I also agree with you about the sheeple, they worry about some of the smallest stuff. When TSHTF I,m gonna sit back and watch the fun, maybe eating some dorito's. Keep your head up brother and remember, no matter what you do now, you help save this country, and even bettter, you rbrothers and sisters. These people here are great vent we listen. Best of luck and you'll find your way. I have faith in you.:thumb::

 

I did not serve due to a traumatic back injury, wish i would have known in high school how little football was going to do for me in real life, but one of my very close friends served and was in Iraq very early on. he returned two more times and now he can do very little.

Mix a good knowledge of "anti-social skills" as doc shane put it and a pretty good case of PTSD and you have a recipe for a man that has trouble with most things in the civilian world. I feel for you guys and wish that both the average civvie on the street knew half of what was given for them and that there were more opportunities to help our veterans.

For some it isn't as simple as just hitting up a therapist, at least not right away. no excuses for anyone, but to come from a culture that looks down on weakness, coming out and admitting that there is a major problem can be hard.

Thanks to all you guys that have served, at least one civvie respects what you guys go through.

-MWD

 

Devil Dog I hear you lima charley Been out 17yrs and still feel that way. Find a job that wears you out physically not mentally ignore the zombies(civies), talk to the wife,talk to your brothers and keep humping its just over the next hill. Semper Fi jabba

 

I been there. At first I enjoyed the sense of freedom civilian life gave me. Was single, no kids, no real bills. I was didnt mind havin a low paying, physical job. Figured after the Corps, this is cake work. But it started to wear on me.

I found my tollerance for candy assed civies, who skated thru life seemingly without care for consequenses, to be VERY low. I stayed at jobs i hated just out of stubborness. I guess I had the mentallity that "these panty waist half assers arent gonna see me sweat!" I didnt want to go with the flow. And I was slow to realize that in the buisness world its every man for himself, and no one really gave a s#%t if i set the example. Civilians dont know what lead from the front means, only how too cover their ass.

So i bounced from job to job. Bout two years was all i could stand. And I spent alot of time ****ed off. Add in my grandfather, father and step dad all having lingering illnesses and dying in rapid succession, and needless to say I didnt have alot of friends, sank a few good relationships and got alot of worried looks from my mom.

For myself, I cant say I had a moment where I said, "Ok, I`m just not gonna worry about it anymore." I was just eventually able to relax. Sometimes I guess it just takes years to do it. Connecting with guys I served with helped. I think if i know their makin it alright, so will I. We all have our ups & downs, such is life. Now, life is treatin me pretty good.

Made us stupid? No, we graduated from the school of hard knocks! But I think it gave us a bad attitude, which can be as bad as ignorance. It`ll wear off, just give it time.

hope this helps man

 

I feel your pain brother. Army (Mostly Airborne and Ranger units) 13+ years. When I got out I felt quite a bit of what you are experiencing. The most successes that I have had in the civilian workd can be directly related back to things I learned in the service. For example the leadership principals you learned in the service are very applicable to the civilian world. Not necessarily the techniques. Great leadership is great leadership regardless of the environment.

The one thing I learned in the service that I apply every day is our unrelenting never quit attitude (quitting is not an option). The warrior ethos if you will. We have served in some of the most inhospitable environments known to man and came through it on top, I am certainly not going to let the civilian world break me after everything I have been through. You wouldn't quit on a roadmarch, ruck run, or on your buddies in combat so don't quit on this either, brother. There are a bunch of us out here with you and behind you.

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.

 

Have you thought about looking into corrections either adult or juvenile? I know when I worked state juvenile, when hiring they would literally stampede over people with BA's and Masters to hire guys who had military experience. Most of the ex military they hired tended to be very good at the job, and many moved into supervisory positions - with little or any college.

A friend of mine works adult corrections and he found that ex military personnel have an edge in the hiring process at his facility too.

Just remember not all states are equal. Washington and California correctional jobs pay very well with great bennies. Other states ( I hear Texas pays horribly and has some of the worst conditions in the US) don't have the pay or perks.

 

Start small:

- Remember that not every job has to be "killed". Find the shade of gray you are getting paid for and duplicate it over and over again.
- People out here communicate differently, try softer questions. For example, instead of saying "get your *** up that ******* rope before I rip your head off and take a **** down your neck" try saying "You know, it looks like that rope might be pretty tough to navigate, I have a feeling it might be the way you are holding your foot. Why don't you try wrapping your leg around the rope just where it goes past your ankle.
- Get really good at project management. And I don't mean yelling at everybody.
- Booze doesn't help pain.
- Moving around alot means you are not building long term relationships built on trust. You can't get through this without trusting someone so invest some time in people and build relationships.
- Join a group, I don't give a damn which one. Join the Masons, the church, the brotherhood of the unholy hats....whatever, just get a support system of people who are willing and able to help you get through this.
- Fix the pain, especially while you are young. I didn't get the surgeries I needed till I was 36 years old and it was almost too late. I spent alot of years running away from pain and irritability associated with it. Get it fixed now because it WILL ONLY GET WORSE!
- My kids are my holy grail, doesn't matter how things are going in life I measure each decision with how it's going to impact them. Not perfect, but it keeps me on the straight and narrow no matter what.

I wish you the best my friend. Life is full of happenstance and choices, so make the best of them.

Semper Fi Marine,
Cool Hand
Former Sergeant USMC

 

I had some similar problems as well. Depression, sleeping problems, anxiety, anger, avoidance, and so on. I refer to it as my PTSD roller coast. :upsidedown:

I went to college a month after I got back from Iraq. I had a tough time trying to concentrate, anxiety level went way up, and my anger shot through the roof having to deal with civilians (including civilian friends and girlfriend.) I spent the next few months being wreak-less with alcohol until a squad leader got a hold of me on the phone and told me I need to go to the Veteran's Hospital to get treated both mentally and physically.

I went and noticed just taking to other veteran's and sometimes therapists helps relieve some things on my mind. I struggled with filing claims for things wrong with me and even refused a lot of treatment. I finally gave in, and started the long process of claims and treatment. The VA and VFW has helped a lot. The VFW has done an amazing job helping me through the mountains of paperwork for my claims.

I've gotten motivated enough to move out of a distracting apartment, into a nice house on a private street. I made it throughout the obstacles of college (and still continuing my education.) And I've made it through some treatments successfully.

I still dislike civilians, still take the PTSD roller coaster often, have an easier time sleep (with the help of medication sometimes), able to communicate more effectively with family and friends about what I'm experiencing and going through, and I still miss serving in the military. Not a day goes by that I wish I was still over there and not here. And in a lot of ways, mentally, I still am.

 

The navy was the best decision I've ever made.

Although I do still have 3 years 1 month left on my first enlistment and I haven't deployed anywhere...