[forrestdweller]

Lets talk about a real Manly Man's Main Battle Rifle.
First of all for you bigsally types (whimpy girly guys in two sizes to small cammie short shorts, xs cammie tee shirt, chest wig and attack poodle named FIFI. The M1 Garand weighs the same as a standard issue AK-47. Here are linked third party references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-1_Garand
So if you can hump a AK-47 you can carry a real rifle a M1 Garand.
Since most of us would be using a Semi-auto Main Battle Rifle for defense the 8 round enblock system of the Garand is not a disadvantage. Conventional military thought is you need 3 or more attackers to every one defender to sucessfully overcome the defenders.
The M1 Garand with its 7.62x53 cartridge out range all other generally available defensive cartridges favored by survivalists. Like the 7.62x39, 5.56 nato, 5.45x39. 7.62x51 for example. Accuracy is depending on the rifle and ammo exceeds the others as well. Mine is a National Match and I handload.
Price wise you will find the some Garands available for way less than most more "modern" semi-auto MBR's out there.
Ammo 7.62x53/3006 is probably the most widespread and available USA cartridge. Personally I have bought up bags of brass and bag after bag of salvaged .308 146 gr mil-surp bullets as well a good supply of South Korean mil-surplus. The boxes of Lake City Match ammo are nice to have on hand as well.
Lastly hand to hand my M1 Garand with its bayonet will out smash and slash your whimpy plastic poodle gun.

 

[ken01976]

okay...

 

[hawkbern]

I'm not sure what others are seeing on Garand pricing, but they have really gone up around here. :xeye:

 

[forrestdweller]

I'm not sure what others are seeing on Garand pricing, but they have really gone up around here. :xeye:

A quick look of gunbroker.com showed servicable M1 Garands available in the $500 to $700 range and up. More collectable more of course. That pricing compare well with plastic matel insult carbines.

 

[hawkbern]

Alrighty then....

 

[LLX45]

okay...

Well said.....

 

[Getyershells]

Good info...I do not disagree that the M1 is an excellent choice for an MBR. However there are several disadvantages I see in carrying a full length rifle around like the M1.

1. Restricion of movement. It would be much harder to get in and out of vehicles with the long barrel of an M1. A carbine length 16 inch barrel offers much more freedom of movement in tight situations.

2. Ammo restriction. The 30-06 round, although very effective at long ranges, and altough it's a fight stopper it's a bigger round than the 7.62x39...thus you get penalized for the extra weight in carrying ammo. I would have to carry thirty 8 round bandoleers, just to equal carrying 8 fully loaded AK mags (240 rounds total)

3. When wood gets wet, it retains water and expands. Over time it can really degrade that wooden stock on the M1. The AK offers the ability to use polymer furniture which is ideal for harsh environments.

4. In WWII the M1 gave away the location of U.S. troops due to that tale tale...DING! after the 8 rounds were fired. Germans would sit and wait until they heard that and they knew exactly when and where to fire (while you are busy reloading).

I've got nothing against the M1 Garand. I think it is an excellent rifle and I still to. However, it wouldn't be my first choice for an MBR. Just my personal opinion and nothing more for the reasons I've stated above.

 

[hawkbern]

Good info...I do not disagree that the M1 is an excellent choice for an MBR. However there are several disadvantages I see in carrying a full length rifle around like the M1.

1. Restricion of movement. It would be much harder to get in and out of vehicles with the long barrel of an M1. A carbine length 16 inch barrel offers much more freedom of movement in tight situations.

2. Ammo restriction. The 30-06 round, although very effective at long ranges, and altough it's a fight stopper it's a bigger round than the 7.62x39...thus you get penalized for the extra weight in carrying ammo. I would have to carry thirty 8 round bandoleers, just to equal carrying 8 fully loaded AK mags (240 rounds total)

3. When wood gets wet, it retains water and expands. Over time it can really degrade that wooden stock on the M1. The AK offers the ability to use polymer furniture which is ideal for harsh environments.

4. In WWII the M1 gave away the location of U.S. troops due to that tale tale...DING! after the 8 rounds were fired. Germans would sit and wait until they heard that and they knew exactly when and where to fire (while you are busy reloading).

I've got nothing against the M1 Garand. I think it is an excellent rifle and I still to. However, it wouldn't be my first choice for an MBR. Just my personal opinion and nothing more for the reasons I've stated above.

Good points.

The M1A Scout is a product that addresses many of the shortcomings.

 

[forrestdweller]

In reply I plan to use the M1 Garand for defense at a fixed retreat. Movement through brush would be a different tactical situation for me and I have other options for that. Same with ammo weight Will not be slogging through the swamp in full pack. Besides with my M1 Garand I will not be spraying and praying.
I grew up on a street where most of the men like my father and some of the women were WW2 veterans and through some volunteer work I do have encountered dozens more several combat veterans including one 507th and 501st D-Day paratroopers. The kaching giving away the position is mostly a myth with all the battle noise it could not be heard except by the shooter. Ejecting shells from a semi-automatic carbine will more likely give away your position because you will have more of them flying out. My group also has the strategy of pairing up a semi-auto main battle rifle with a semi-auto military style carbine. ex: M1 Garand armed with a SAR-1 armed. If a muntant horde got close enough one would be shooting or ready to shoot while the other reloaded. my family does not plan to be lone rangers.

 

[hawkbern]

In reply I plan to use the M1 Garand for defense at a fixed retreat. Movement through brush would be a different tactical situation for me and I have other options for that. Same with ammo weight Will not be slogging through the swamp in full pack. Besides with my M1 Garand I will not be spraying and praying.
I grew up on a street where most of the men like my father and some of the women were WW2 veterans and through some volunteer work I do have encountered dozens more several combat veterans including one 507th and 501st D-Day paratroopers. The kaching giving away the position is mostly a myth with all the battle noise it could not be heard except by the shooter. Ejecting shells from a semi-automatic carbine will more likely give away your position because you will have more of them flying out. My group also has the strategy of pairing up a semi-auto main battle rifle with a semi-auto military style carbine. ex: M1 Garand armed with a SAR-1 armed. If a muntant horde got close enough one would be shooting or ready to shoot while the other reloaded. my family does not plan to be lone rangers.

Understood on the deployment of the Garand. Will the two-man patrols just be utilizing rifles? Just wondering if they will carry sidearms, shotguns or any explosives/incendiaries.

 

[Forevrbanned]

Well...opinions are like :taped: holes everybody has one.garand is a great rifle.But to complete disregard every other rifle on the planet is just ignorance.The 5.56 has been the mbr for our great military for 40+yrs now the ak has been around 15 yrs longer and I'm sure all the people that have been shot or shot at with these rifles did not care if they had a "plastic wimpy stock" on them or not.the rifle DOES NOT make the man.I dont understand why so many people feel the need to glorify their possessions and/or decisions they made on a mbr.who cares,choose what you want but dont knock solid battle proven rifles just because you choose not to use them.

 

[bygrace]

Wow!

This is really the time and place to call others names because they don't shoot what you like. Guess it takes all kinds to make an asylum.

 

[blue123]

Ok forrest i'll play,first let me say i love the garand and have owned several over the years with that said it has two big shortcomings in the modern world,
#1 it was not designed to top off the magazine when the round count gets low
#2 the enblock clip feed system was not designed for clip retention,it throws the clip clear just like the empty brass making retention under combat impossible and since the clip is half of the feed system, garands turn into single shots as soon as the ammo runs out......

however in a fixed position and scoped the garand can be most formidable, unfortunatly for the reasons listed it is a relic of the last century and while i dont believe in abundant resupply during teotwawki, i would rather have retained empty 20rounders to fill than scavanging for enblocks for my garand.....

 

[LD 50/50]

What weight?, What wood?

BTW its 7.62x63 not 53.

When your firing any 30 cal firearm, as soon as the first round is out the barrel, noise is not a factor any more. shells and enblocs dont even matter. When you had a whole squad of them, then running out at the same time was, but that was long ago.

General Patton said the Garand is the best battle rifle ever made, and I knew many Marines that agreed.

John Browning said, "They never made a better rifle, only a faster one."

Please dont even compare a AR to an Garand, The reason the US government got away form the 30 cal was to carry more ammo, and to go form an aimed target tactics to a spray and Pray tactic.

The M1a (M14) is so far superior to the AR platfrom in every way but one. Weight.

BTW 8 bandoleers would be 384 rounds so thats more than 240 AK rounds.

The Garand can stay out of the AK range, and mow them down before they can even fire. Who needs 8 30 round magazines?

The enbloc can be made not to auto eject, and you can pop it into your hand and no one will ever hear it. It takes less than 10 seconds to reload. How much ground can you cover in 10 seconds?

Meanwhile 7-8 or your buds are bleeding at your feet.

A wise WWII Vet told me that he would burn up his BAR every week or two, island hoping though the Pacific. He would pick up a Garand, and carry it for days or weeks until he came across another BAR.

I used to sit and listen to him, and his war buds, when they got together.

He had a saying:

"When you in a jam, grab an M1 Garand, It wont"

Thanks Dad, for your words of wisdom

#1 it was not designed to top off the magazine when the round count gets low
#2 the enblock clip feed system was not designed for clip retention,it throws the clip clear just like the empty brass making retention under combat

1) Halbrook device makes that posible
2) Same device makes it so you can pop them into your hand.

BTW your not going to fight a war, just survive

 

[hawkbern]

What weight?, What wood?

BTW its 7.62x63 not 53.

When your firing any 30 cal firearm, as soon as the first round is out the barrel, noise is not a factor any more. shells and enblocs dont even matter. When you had a whole squad of them, then running out at the same time was, but that was long ago.

General Patton said the Garand is the best battle rifle ever made, and I knew many Marines that agreed.

John Browning said in 1936, "They never made a better rifle, only a faster one."

Please dont even compare a AR to an Garand, The reason the US government got away form the 30 cal was to carry more ammo, and to go form an aimed target tactics to a spray and Pray tactic.

The M1a (M14) is so far superior to the AR platfrom in every way but one. Weight.

BTW 8 bandoleers would be 384 rounds so thats more than 240 AK rounds.

The Garand can stay out of the AK range, and mow them down before they can even fire. Who needs 8 30 round magazines?

The enbloc can be made not to auto eject, and you can pop it into your hand and no one will ever hear it. It takes less than 10 seconds to reload. How much ground can you cover in 10 seconds?

Meanwhile 7-8 or your buds are bleeding at your feet.

A wise WWII Vet told me that he would burn up his BAR every week or two, island hoping though the Pacific. He would pick up a Garand, and carry it for days or weeks until he came across another BAR.

I used to sit and listen to him, and his war buds, when they got together.

He had a saying:

"When you in a jam, grab an M1 Garand, It wont"

Thanks Dad, for your words of wisdom

Not saying you aren't correct, but I'm pretty sure that you could find all kinds of quotes stating what the best tank or fighter aircraft was 75 years ago but I highly doubt those quotes would be accurate today.

 

[forrestdweller]

Understood on the deployment of the Garand. Will the two-man patrols just be utilizing rifles? Just wondering if they will carry sidearms, shotguns or any explosives/incendiaries.

Everyone will have a sidearm hopefully pistol with 3 or more spare mags. In my case a Black Widow Luger. A fixed blade 5 to 7 inch of good quality. A pair of binoculars. A hand held personal radio. Some stuff I will not comment on. Basically we will field for defense well equipped Militia. For scouting we will use different rigging. Mainly carbines, sidearms, fixed blades and communications devices lighter stuff for speed and mobility not slugging it out.

 

[arisinwind]

4. In WWII the M1 gave away the location of U.S. troops due to that tale tale...DING! after the 8 rounds were fired. Germans would sit and wait until they heard that and they knew exactly when and where to fire (while you are busy reloading).

I'd think the sound of eight rounds firing would give your position away a lot quicker than the "Ding" of clip ejection.

 

[anchorbanger]

Good post.

Dont shoot any old commercial 30-06 ammo through a Garand. Use .30 USGI M2 Ball. In a pinch (SHTF) you can get away with Springfield but I'd stick to milsurp.

I've seen pictures of folks using non-spec rounds and it wasn't pretty in regards to what happened to their nice new Garand. http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1504

It has to due to the powder and burn rate.

Chart here: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30_ammo.html


My Girls...

1944 SA

1945 SA

 

[forrestdweller]

Anchorbanger
How could you post such provacative pictures on a site that women and children paruse.
Lust Lust
I reload to Mil specs for mine.

 

[Hard Hittin 54r]

forrest,
I would match any of my Mausers against the Garrand any day.

They are good rifles, I don't wear cammie shorts but I can shoot an A$$ off with any of my AK's. My group will be well prepared in the field for any event and we only use the Garrand for a hunting rifle.

HH54r