Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Where I live in Long Island, I'm considered an express stop away from NYC, a 40 minute commute to Penn Station, NYC, or 1 hour drive. I'm here with a community of upper middle class, all white ex NYC residents who work out butts off to pay the taxes, have the house, the pool and the lifestyle, raise the kids, drive them to soccer and baseball and basketball, all while living in a safe area with a 90+ high school to college ratio. Life is pretty sweet. For now.

I look at my home as an investment, just like my Grandfather did when he moved from Hells Kitchen to Flatbush Brooklyn to be more "American". He had 3 kids, and they sold the house after he died. He thought he'd keep that house in Flatbush forever. He didn't.

My family home is also in NYC in the suburbs. My siblings and I grew up thinking we'd have that home forever. Only my parents remain of the "old block". We've all moved on to bigger and larger homes, more land, more money.

Out kids, nieces and nephews are looking at Colleges in Va, Maryland, North Carolina. We've stopped at Notre Dame while on vacation to inspire the kids to shoot high.
So where will this home end up?

Point is how many of us really keep a home for more than 2 generations? Seems like the concept of real estate as a legacy needs to be updated. Maybe home ownership is all a lie and the Native Americans were right all along. Thoughts?

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/home-ownership-is-a-trick-being-played-on-you/


"Mr. SALMON: There's this weird fallacy that somehow, paying rent is throwing money away, whereas paying a mortgage isn't. But one of the commenters on my blog put it very well when they said that if you buy a house, you're still renting; you're just renting the money to buy the house rather than renting the house itself.

And all of those mortgage interest payments, even if they're tax deductible, they're still going to the bank rather than the landlord. And maybe you think that Bank of America is a more worthy place to send your money than your landlord but that's not necessarily the case."

From NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126076105
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,200 Posts
Maybe economics has changed somewhat but I never heard of anyone getting equity out of a rented place or selling it and making a dime. Some people actually manage to pay for their homes either up front or early. When that happens the deed has your name on it. Never happens with a rental. Or am I missing something?

I know of a family or two that is on to 3rd generation in a home but they are landed and rural. i.e. the land is productive not just a place to live.
 

·
Endure ~ Adapt ~ Overcome
Joined
·
281 Posts
I have always thought it was strange that you can buy a house or land in the US but if you dont pay property tax for it it gets taken from you.

How is that owning something?

If I own something then I should not be charged by any government to pocess it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm thinking the renters avoid the property taxes to support the pensioners, the police, the fire and all the other crap we are trying to reduce. The homeowners pay the tab.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,021 Posts
Kabar, excellent points!

Last year I made the last payment on my home, for the first time in my life I "own" real estate with no payments!!

However, of course I still pay "rent" to the county for as long as I am alive. In 2005 I paid $2025 per year to my landlord, it's now over $3100 and it's expected to go to $3600 this summer because it seems my "landlord" is experiencing difficult economic times.

If I refuse to pay my "landlord" they will prove to me who really owns this house,
men with guns would come to "their" house and throw me on the street.

It's an illusion!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,927 Posts
American dream is to be independently wealthy not home ownership as you never own a home.....if you dont believe this dont pay your property taxes for ten years.Independently wealthy gives you the true freedom to live your life.For some people it is a home thats paid for and they recieve a pension which enables them to live thier lives as they see fit.ther countries like italy ....the property stays in your family until they can no longer find a decendant after about 100 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
I have always thought it was strange that you can buy a house or land in the US but if you dont pay property tax for it it gets taken from you.

How is that owning something?

If I own something then I should not be charged by any government to pocess it.
Property tax was an invention specifically made to target long term land ownership. The theory being "Why should a person born to a rich person have more of the nations natural resources than someone who born to a poor person. The natural resources of our nation should not be the property of any one person rather the property of the entire nation and individuals pay rent to the rest of the nation for using a finite resource."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You do not think the renter pays the property taxes? You must have one pretty dumb landlord not to pass that cost on in rent.
Commercial leases pass along taxes. The old "triple net lease". Generally, leases for residential space do not unless you are saying "its all in there which is true".

Once you pay for your house, you still pay property taxes. You've paid your mortgage down so its gone, plus all the interest to the bank. So all the interest is lost. (Yes I know you get the interest deduction).

Once house drop in value, what the heck have you got?
 

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Great and interesting thread, KABAR. I remember as a little kid, my parents telling me the importance of owning your home, and the difference between the financial futures of people who invested in a home vs. life long renters...

I also remembered the choldhood fantasy of a family home that passed from generation to generation, increasing the family fortune substantially.

Suburbs are part of the problem, as I see it, because it seems that in many areas, an idyllic suburb is, within 15 years transformed into something, one wants to leave due to a changing demographic and other factors. This causes the flight to ever further suburbs while decreasing the adjusted value of the first tier suburb...

All the while each new successive wave of suburbs further encroaches on rural land.

I guess that part of the problem - a very large part - is the fact that most of us are far removed from the days of a true rural homestead.

I'm as guilty as anyone... I wanted my family to live/grow up in the nicest, newest suburb with all of the amenities...
 

·
We will not go quietly
Joined
·
275 Posts
My uncle lives on the farm passed down from my grandparents, and our home is built on land passed to DH from his parents. So it does happen. We have no mortgage, and our only out lay for our home is property taxes. In the event that I lose my job we would only need to come up with the 2000 a year in order to be able to remain on our farm and live our life, instead of the 10,000 to 12,000 it would take for rent to be renting a house with no land and no way to provide for ourselves.
As far as property tax..... As long as the money goes to the things it should, like schools, police, fire companies and the like, it is necessary. Would you rather everyone pay these independently?
My complaint is that our taxes are going to go up to pay for 2 new schools, when the old ones could have been repaired for a lot less money, and a lot of folks in the area have lost their jobs recently. Unfortunately, the ones making the decisions about spending the tax money all seem to have their jobs and are blind to the plight of others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My uncle lives on the farm passed down from my grandparents, and our home is built on land passed to DH from his parents. So it does happen. We have no mortgage, and our only out lay for our home is property taxes. In the event that I lose my job we would only need to come up with the 2000 a year in order to be able to remain on our farm and live our life, instead of the 10,000 to 12,000 it would take for rent to be renting a house with no land and no way to provide for ourselves.
As far as property tax..... As long as the money goes to the things it should, like schools, police, fire companies and the like, it is necessary. Would you rather everyone pay these independently?
My complaint is that our taxes are going to go up to pay for 2 new schools, when the old ones could have been repaired for a lot less money, and a lot of folks in the area have lost their jobs recently. Unfortunately, the ones making the decisions about spending the tax money all seem to have their jobs and are blind to the plight of others.
Its a dream like the West that never really was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
We really fought this same argument - rent vs own - over at the financial forum.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=107141

In that first post I added a link to a new rent vs own calculator the New York Times put up on their website. The results are shocking.

I bookmarked the NY Times link. Thank you.


We did pretty well on the chart, crossing after 8 years assuming 3% rent increase and 6% increase per year on home, now no longer true, but pretty accurate to reflect current value.

I guess I'm just thinking about the property taxes which continue to go up, and the value flat for 2-3 years.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top