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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
March 5 (Bloomberg) -- Striking Greek workers shut down transport and tried to storm parliament as lawmakers passed 4.8 billion euros ($6.5 billion) in budget cuts, including wage reductions, needed to trim the region’s biggest budget deficit.

Police with riot shields fired tear gas as demonstrators wearing biker helmets and gas masks pelted them with stones outside parliament in Athens where lawmakers approved the measures. Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou told parliament the cuts will show European Union allies and investors that Greece is making good on its deficit pledges.

“We didn’t create this crisis but now we have to pay for it,” said Manthos Adamakis, who was protesting with other catering workers outside the five-star Grande Bretagne Hotel on Syntagma Square in downtown Athens.

Tram, rail, subway and bus services shut in Athens and other cities as employees rallied against cuts to bonuses and holiday payments. A walk out by air-traffic controllers forced the cancellation of all 58 flights to and from Athens International Airport between midday and 4 p.m. and the rescheduling of another 135, according to a spokeswoman.
Complete Article Here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSDLV4EUnj8k

Watch how this situation plays out in Greece. UK, Spain, Portugal next to topple? The situation in Greece could easily spread to the rest of Europe. Remember, thanks to the AIG bailout, the U.S. Taxpayers might be on the hook for this Greek debt; possibly other countries as well...
 

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What you're seeing in Greece will be a forerunner of what happens here in the US, and for the same reasons. Apparently Goldman-Sachs fubar'd Greek debts, and the negligent/co-opted government is requesting that the citizens bear the brunt of corruption/folly.

It's the same story here -- as I mentioned in another thread, even highly educated people think we just need to raise taxes and cut services. In other words: force ordinary people to pay for the corruption that led to this mess. Insult to injury.
 

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The irony is that the idea leads to a ransacking of the wealthy which got us into this mess. ...many claimed that would be "wealth redistribution" and "socialism" for Obama to even consider that. The bottom line is that ultimately somebody is going to have to pay-up. And I'd much rather that CEO cough-up a little extra than it come out of my check.

I'm not saying Obama is right. Cuz I certainly don't like most of his spending. But I certainly don't have a problem with taxing the rich at a higher rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
It's the same story here -- as I mentioned in another thread, even highly educated people think we just need to raise taxes and cut services. In other words: force ordinary people to pay for the corruption that led to this mess. Insult to injury.
I hear what you're saying aramchek.

I had a heated argument with a friend of mine the other day. He's a firefighter, employed by the town we both live in. It was recently announced that the town is raising the mill rate to cover a budget deficit, reduced business taxs collections, etc...

Having lived in the town now for about two years, I see (from an outsiders point of view) the ol' boy network cronyism in all levels; from board of ed, public works, police dept, fire dept, town hall... etc... etc...

By my rough estimates, the pending tax increase will likely cause my mortgage payment to increase by $125 (or more) PER MONTH! My wife and I can't offord this. We have two kids in college, another two to enter college in two years. We're both working two jobs and barely keeping are heads above water.

I tried to point out to my buddy that instead of raising the taxes on us ordinary folks, how about a townwide, up to bottom, audit of all town employees. What do they actually do? How much are they paid for their "jobs"? How did they get their "jobs"? I suggested busting up the ol' boy network and firing all non-essental personnel.

He thought about it for a minute but was like "Good idea, but that would be tough to do. Many generations of cronyism; tough to root out..."

My buddy was basically of the opinion that, well, we all just have to "suck it up" (his words) for the good of the town and the good of all... That ****ed me off to the point where I challenged him. I told him that if he and his firefighter buddies really care about the town, why don't they work some UNPAID overtime (like the rest of us salaried shmucks have to do...). Better yet, I asked him why doesn't the firefighters union forego some of their pension benefits. His jaw just dropped!

I pointed out how we (working middle class) are strapped and we can't continue paying for his (and everybody else's) pension and lifetime medical benefits, can't keep paying these town clerks who do nothing but watch the clock all day long. Apparently nobody ever brought that option up to him because he was ****ed that I even suggested it.

In the end, he said that if his pension and benefits were taken away, he wouldn't care if the town "burned to the ground" (his exact words). So much for caring about the town....
 

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The irony is that the idea leads to a ransacking of the wealthy which got us into this mess. ...many claimed that would be "wealth redistribution" and "socialism" for Obama to even consider that. The bottom line is that ultimately somebody is going to have to pay-up. And I'd much rather that CEO cough-up a little extra than it come out of my check.

I'm not saying Obama is right. Cuz I certainly don't like most of his spending. But I certainly don't have a problem with taxing the rich at a higher rate.
What if YOU were "the rich"? Always remember, you ALREADY ARE "the rich" by the standards of those who are "less rich" than you, and they don't have a problem with you being taxed at a higher rate.

Also, remember that penalizing economic success through higher taxes is a discouragement to those trying to work harder or take higher risks in order to increase their income.

Remember, even if the taxes were the same exact percentage of income for everyone across the board, those making more will pay more. 5% of 100K will always be a lot more than 5% of 30k.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Boy, what a paradigm shift it will be to watch when the American citizen realizes the power is, and has always been, in their hands. It will be spectacular.
The people overwhelmingly rejected a Wall Street bailout. These f*ckers in Congress, who are supposed to represent their constituants, still went ahead and bailed out their banksters friends and cohorts. Great move a**holes...

Not suggesting it, But just imagine a couple of hundred thousand Americans "storming" the U.S. Capitol, intent on a "necktie" party! Not out of the realm of possibility....
 

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What if YOU were "the rich"? Always remember, you ALREADY ARE "the rich" by the standards of those who are "less rich" than you, and they don't have a problem with you being taxed at a higher rate.

Also, remember that penalizing economic success through higher taxes is a discouragement to those trying to work harder or take higher risks in order to increase their income.

Remember, even if the taxes were the same exact percentage of income for everyone across the board, those making more will pay more. 5% of 100K will always be a lot more than 5% of 30k.
I largely agree with that. My only point is that there is a general resentment for the population to fix the economic mistakes of certain wealthy businesses. A lot of business are laying off Americans and moving a lot of jobs "offshore" to cut costs. Those that are lucky enough to retain their job are often asked to be more productive (i.e. do the work of people that have been cut) for the same salary, sometimes even less. So there's a bit of a rub for the common person. And there lies the danger--the backlash tends to have a "socialist flavor". The instinct is to punish the rich. After all, while we're clipping coupons, they're just downgrading their luxury cars.

I have 2 main complaints. 1) I hate when companies fire Americans and hire foreigners. 2) I hate it even more when Americans continue to buy from these same companies and perpetuate the problem. Sam Walton has got to be rolling in his grave.
 

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Well said MB,
I believe we have to remove the current leadership by uniting at the ballot box, any other way would just be anarchy and easily quelled. We need to get back to the vision of the founding fathers or we are doomed.
 

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It looks like we'll see another strike on March 11.


This is similar to what happened in Iceland.
Yes indeed, glad you brought that up. There are definate similiarities: Especially the anger of the common people towards the leaders who got them into this situation. Even if said leaders were just following the public will in spending money as if there were no tomorrow. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that despite all of Iceland's troubles, it didn't collapse, fall apart, or bring down the rest of Europe. It's not a HAPPY place, right now, but it's no post apocalyptic wasteland. The situation with regard to Greece, Spain, etc, etc is somewhat different, but folks insisting this is the beginnning of TEOTWAWKI may be a bit... premature...
 

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Before they start raising taxes in the US, they had better start cutting welfare, food stamps and medicaid. And if that happens, we all know what the end result will be. The middle class cannot continue to pay for those that do not wish to work or are unwilling to work.

I have a tremendous amount of empathy for those that are laid off and have been laid off for an extended period of time. I have empathy for those that, "did it right" all of these years, got up and went to work everyday, paid taxes, paid their bills, did not overextend themselves etc. I do not have empathy for those that believe that "we" (because we are the government) owe them everything. We owe them housing, we owe them food and healthcare. No one is owed anything.
 

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I got a kick out of this headline. Then I thought, could parts of America be sold to our creditors?

Greece Told To Sell Islands To Raise Cash
Debt-ridden Greece has been told it should sell off some of its islands to raise cash - and there have even been suggestions the country should flog the ancient Acropolis in Athens.

Greece has around 6,000 islands off its coast, but only 227 of them are inhabited and the vast majority of those are thought to belong to the state.

The cash-strapped country has launched a fresh round of austerity measures in an attempt to rein in a ballooning budget deficit that is more than four times above EU limits.

The Socialist government has increased sales, tobacco and alcohol taxes and cut public sector holiday allowances to save 4.8bn euros (£4.3bn), equal to about 2% of gross domestic product (GDP).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well said MB,
I believe we have to remove the current leadership by uniting at the ballot box, any other way would just be anarchy and easily quelled. We need to get back to the vision of the founding fathers or we are doomed.
Uniting At The Ballot Box??? Please. It will never happen. The system is rigged and has been for generations. Two parties. Democrats. Republicans. In the end, one and the same. Teedle Dum. Teedle Dee. Al Franken. Rush Limbaugh. Glenn Beck. A**clowns all...

The alternative to Obama, presented to us now is... Sarah Palin! Not saying you're a Palin supporter but... Are you serious? What choice is out there to "unite" us at the ballot box??? Have any of you "conservatives" ever listened to Palin speak? (beyond the 10 second sound bits). Ever listen to her attempt to give an unscripted answer to an unscripted question? Same thing with Obama...

Any anarchy will be "easily quelled" only so long as the majority have their two weeks vacation, full grocery store shelfs, NFL beer and circuses. What happens when these things are taken away FROM THE MAJORITY?

Leaders will lead. Followers will follow. Same as it ever was. Lets hope the next "leader" after TEOTWAWKI doesn't turn out to be a Hitler or a Stalin.
 

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Well from my point of veiw

With the added taxes we shut down one of our bussiness. It only got rid of 33 jobs and alot of headaches. Why work harder when theres not enoght profit for the ammount of trouble. We felt sorry but its not not having all the extra trouble. Funny thing is My Father and Brother both made more with closing down the other shop me I broke even so It was nice having the shoter days and less work.
Like my dad said why work so hard to pay for people that are to lazy to work for themselfs.
 

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What if YOU were "the rich"? Always remember, you ALREADY ARE "the rich" by the standards of those who are "less rich" than you, and they don't have a problem with you being taxed at a higher rate.

Also, remember that penalizing economic success through higher taxes is a discouragement to those trying to work harder or take higher risks in order to increase their income.

Remember, even if the taxes were the same exact percentage of income for everyone across the board, those making more will pay more. 5% of 100K will always be a lot more than 5% of 30k.
When the top 1% control 90% or so of the worlds wealth I think it's safe to say that you will not be rich (Odds dont lie).

I shouldnt have to pay for these fatcat bankers gambling addiction gone wrong, they should, in fact I see no difference between the Gamblers anonymous member that screws up at the blackjack table and these bankers. They screwed up, they can live with it, no one would bail any of us out so F&CK em! Of course when they screw up theuy get a 20% bonus, when we screw up we just get fired.

Tax em at 90% and hit the companies for 50% of their earning pre expense just like the rest of us.

In fact, if the SHTF any banker I stumble across is giving me all of their stuff, Karma penalty for destroying the country.
 

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When the top 1% control 90% or so of the worlds wealth I think it's safe to say that you will not be rich (Odds dont lie).

I shouldnt have to pay for these fatcat bankers gambling addiction gone wrong, they should, in fact I see no difference between the Gamblers anonymous member that screws up at the blackjack table and these bankers. They screwed up, they can live with it, no one would bail any of us out so F&CK em! Of course when they screw up theuy get a 20% bonus, when we screw up we just get fired.

Tax em at 90% and hit the companies for 50% of their earning pre expense just like the rest of us.

In fact, if the SHTF any banker I stumble across is giving me all of their stuff, Karma penalty for destroying the country.
Come on, 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. These are scumbags and deserve to be penalized, but not everyone that makes a high income is one of "them" and not EVERY member in a group should pay for the mistakes of SOME members in the group.

The bankers did not deserve the bonuses, the banks did not deserve the bailout, and we definitely did not deserve to pay for it. However, making the wrong choice of taxing a certain income group 90% is not gonna fix that.

How about the government does the right thing and demands immediate repayments of all bailout funds? If, or more like WHEN they cannot repay, the govt make the officers of the companies personally liable to pay back, or at the very least, return every penny they received as "incentives" for their "good work". Perhaps even 90% of their salaries as well. But that would be limited to the firms that received bailout money and it would not be a penalty for making too much money. It would be a (fair?) penalty for being accomplices, directly benefiting from, and strongly encouraging(coercing) an act of treason against the American public.

Don't forget, those ultimately responsible for giving these rotten scumbags the taxpayer's money were our politicians. Yes, those who we, the people "elected" (all conspiracy theories aside) to represent US. The bankers asked, begged and coerced the government in every way they could, but the real traitors are those who had the final say on the matter, and not only decided FOR the banks and bankers, and against the people. Not only they are traitors against the people of the United States, they even paraded and cheered their actions, and tried to defraud us by disguising their actions as a merciful, help TO THE PEOPLE.

These are the traitors, and the bankers are their direct accomplices. They should ALL pay for their crimes, but only those involved in the crime, not every member of a larger group whom all of these cronies belong to.

Disclaimer: I do not work for any banking, wallstreet, or financial firm, and definitely don't qualify for Obama's definition of "rich" ($250k /yr) category.
 
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