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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've noticed that many people on here prep because they see a scenario where global economic collapse is the main theme. I'm a with many people on here that the collapse has already started. It's been a slow drop for a while and will quickly pick up pace and head off a cliff.

When mass poverty becomes more noticeable, there will be food riots. I can see the gov stepping in declaring martial law and demanding all weapons be collected for the "safety of society". I can also see door-to-door inspections going into every home looking for weapons and food stocks. People holding either of those will probably be arrested for 1) not handing over your gun 2) hoarding. Chances are pretty slim the average joe can take on even one trained soldier.

If you leave for a BOL, in the middle of nowhere, they've got drones and satellites that can track you and hundreds thousands of other people from miles away with IR cameras. They'll feed all that data into some computer warehouse and go through all that data, one by one, and send in the appropriate personnel to search your stuff. They might even take over the farms and herd everyone into cities where it's easier to control. If they don't, they'll at least take your stuff. If they look further and see that you're squatting on property that isn't yours, they'll probably arrest you, and then take your stuff. Bottom line, if things get desperate, they have the numbers and guns and they're not leaving you with anything.

I'm not so convinced that a BOL is the best idea. In a situation like this, I'm thinking that the best thing to do is stay in a less densely populated area but still in a populated area. Also, have a cache that is nearby so you drones wouldn't be suspicious that you or a group of you are leaving the city to the middle of nowhere and going back to where you came. Have a cache in a spider hole off your property but say in an abandoned factory or field. Go out at night only to get to your cache. Don't go back directly but through a populated area and then circle around. In a situation like that, you've got to assume you're always being watched.

In terms of weapons, I think it'd be wise to learn to be able to make your own and have it look like something you'd normally use everyday.

Just my thoughts...

Edit: Should taken the word "just" out of the title
 

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With all that in mind we might as well run to the "authorities" with all our guns, ammo and preps in hand and throw them at their feet while kneeling in abject subjugation, begging forgiveness for our foolish belief in individual, God-given rights.

There are alternatives to surrendering without resistance, but I guess Americans aren't what they used to be.
 

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Oh, I'll fight. I am a soldier. There are many soldiers here. I venture a guess that would say that all of us would protect others' property rather than abscond with it. I get what you're saying, though. It's the drones that would be the problem, not the individual. I could see drones marking targets and destroying stuff.
 

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I largely agree with your assessment. I have often thought about the prospect of moving to what JWR refers to as the American Redoubt. If we all know this region is going to be heavily populated by preppers and survivalist, so does the Government.

My only disagreement is the role the military will play. While I'm sure there will be some "loyalists", I am confident that the majority of the military will not turn their weapons on constitutionally law abiding citizens. That is those military personnel left, since I also believe that a good sized chunk of them will flat out desert if it gets that bad so they can take care of their own family.

There's a good youtube video that I'll find later of a National Guardsman explaining why he and his entire unit refused to take part in the gun confiscation going on in NOLA after Katrina. It wasn't by the commander's direction either, they told command what they will not be doing.

Because of that, I think the thugs you are going to have to worry about will be law enforcement from the Federal level down to the local level.

Against that, I think civilians have a chance, if they come together.
 

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This is worthy of a new thread: Drones are the new raiders. Let us now adopt as our irrational fixation that each of us is sufficiently important to warrant drone surveillance. Yes, even if society has collapsed we will nevertheless be the target of this fragile and expensive technology.
 

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If you are so sure this will be the scenario, just forgoe the hardship and turn over your food and guns now. Why stall the inevitable?

If I was sure this was going to happen I would sell my guns and buy beer and steaks with the proceeds and have a bunch of babes move in with me:D:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm not saying to not resist. I'm saying it'd be foolish to go out in a blaze of glory thinking you'll make a difference. In fact, if you did that, you'll give more justification for their side knowing they have a cause to fight for. It's not about giving up. Otherwise, what would be the point of fashioning your own gun? I'm saying to do it in a smart way and survive first.

Many of us have families here. In an event like that, there's no way I'm leaving my wife and baby girl. If I'm dead, they've got nothing.

Running to a BOL may not be the smartest thing in the world. Especially if you think you're going to hide out and not be seen. With that kind of tech, I think many of us are going to have to rethink how we do things.

Whether soldiers do or don't I really don't know. One thing is for sure, we've begun to move away from soldiers and more towards weapons that are designed for crowd control. With drones, they can kill off anyone and you wouldn't even see it. It just takes one person to control it a thousand miles away like a video game.
 

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Oh, I'll fight. I am a soldier. There are many soldiers here. I venture a guess that would say that all of us would protect others' property rather than abscond with it. I get what you're saying, though. It's the drones that would be the problem, not the individual. I could see drones marking targets and destroying stuff.
Yeah, if it comes to the point that the US military is sending in drones to hunt down backwoods homesteaders, then we'll know for certain that the founding principles of America have gone down the drain. Since it would be unlikely to get them back, at least in the short term, the thing to do would be the whole blaze-of-glory act.

Since the "soldiers" I'd be facing would be either traitors to their oath or blue helmets, I would be happy to take some out with me. Hint: a soldier can grab a gun out of your hand, even LEOs can do it, it's SOP. But a big KNIFE, however, is a lot harder to disarm, and can easily stab through bulletproof vests and even some high tech body armor.

You can spend $$$$ for a hunting knife, or you can go to the supermarket and buy an 8 inch chef's knife. The latter is what I did. Looks scary, especially if the target is tired and jumpy from house to house searches. Since the goal is to put the fear of Jesus into the targets, and to force them to kill you, it works quite well. If the blue helmets face that at EVERY house, well pretty soon they're gonna mutiny, since even Slobovian peacekeepers aren't stupid.

Read some Solzhenistiyn, especially the part where people realize too late that if they'd simply taken axes to Stalin's goons during the house to house roundups, pretty soon the goons would quit. An ax is frightening, and conjures images of crazed mad killers. If you're confronted with blue helmets, it might even be better than a knife, and it's cheap too.
 

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You can spend $$$$ for a hunting knife, or you can go to the supermarket and buy an 8 inch chef's knife. The latter is what I did. Looks scary, especially if the target is tired and jumpy from house to house searches. Since the goal is to put the fear of Jesus into the targets, and to force them to kill you, it works quite well.
I learned a long time ago, don't take a knife to a gun fight. I work in the LE field and been through a lot of training i.e. sel defense and we've watched a bunch of Russian training films demonstrating neutralizing a threat with a gun when you don't have a gun and all I can say is I would feel a lot more comfortable with my Glock 23 than a Gerber.
 

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I've noticed that many people on here prep because they see a scenario where global economic collapse is the main theme. I'm a with many people on here that the collapse has already started. It's been a slow drop for a while and will quickly pick up pace and head off a cliff.

When mass poverty becomes more noticeable, there will be food riots. I can see the gov stepping in declaring martial law and demanding all weapons be collected for the "safety of society". I can also see door-to-door inspections going into every home looking for weapons and food stocks. People holding either of those will probably be arrested for 1) not handing over your gun 2) hoarding. Chances are pretty slim the average joe can take on even one trained soldier.

If you leave for a BOL, in the middle of nowhere, they've got drones and satellites that can track you and hundreds thousands of other people from miles away with IR cameras. They'll feed all that data into some computer warehouse and go through all that data, one by one, and send in the appropriate personnel to search your stuff. They might even take over the farms and herd everyone into cities where it's easier to control. If they don't, they'll at least take your stuff. If they look further and see that you're squatting on property that isn't yours, they'll probably arrest you, and then take your stuff. Bottom line, if things get desperate, they have the numbers and guns and they're not leaving you with anything.

I'm not so convinced that a BOL is the best idea. In a situation like this, I'm thinking that the best thing to do is stay in a less densely populated area but still in a populated area. Also, have a cache that is nearby so you drones wouldn't be suspicious that you or a group of you are leaving the city to the middle of nowhere and going back to where you came. Have a cache in a spider hole off your property but say in an abandoned factory or field. Go out at night only to get to your cache. Don't go back directly but through a populated area and then circle around. In a situation like that, you've got to assume you're always being watched.

In terms of weapons, I think it'd be wise to learn to be able to make your own and have it look like something you'd normally use everyday.

Just my thoughts...
OH it's gonna get alot worst than what you are saying.
No matter what we do,most of us are already dead anyways.
It's gonna be hell on earth,so go along with it,let them come and inspect
your home,let them take all they want.
It won't save you are your family.
They will just come back for more,but this time it's your family.
We gotta fight the first time they come,sure most of us and our familys will die,but we died fighting!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If the economy truly tanks, and I mean tanks, I would be more worried about zombies than our own military who would be on high alert dealing with foreign powers who may attempt to capitalize on our weakened state.
Yes, but we still have nuclear weapons. Not many countries are will to cross that line. With drones, we know that they've already been deployed on the home front. It's just another excuse away to having them being fully armed and used.

Guys, say what you will but it's not cool with me to have these damn things flying around under the guise of "protecting" me.
 

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I don't know if anyone mentioned this , buit not only will the govt confiscate guns , but they'll take your food and other preps as well.
As kid I used to love reading about ww2 , I remember reading old posters etc about how people that hoarded food were considered criminals ( especially in britain ) , and neighbers were encouraged to spy on each other and turn in people that had more than them.
I believe the penalties were mostly fines and confiscation .
Should we all start starving , its not hard to imagine people turning on each other , with more have nots than haves it isn't hard to imagine the average person villanising those with food preps , and supporting laws that redistribute food .
Kind of like how the soviets supported theyre govt rounding up people for food hoarding when the country was starving do to collectivisation .
 

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I've noticed that many people on here prep because they see a scenario where global economic collapse is the main theme. I'm a with many people on here that the collapse has already started. It's been a slow drop for a while and will quickly pick up pace and head off a cliff.

When mass poverty becomes more noticeable, there will be food riots. I can see the gov stepping in declaring martial law and demanding all weapons be collected for the "safety of society". I can also see door-to-door inspections going into every home looking for weapons and food stocks.
do you have any idea how much logistical support the government would need to undertake what your proposing? and do it in the aftermath of a financial callapse? i dont think so, we could'nt disarm the populations of iraq or afganistan in ten years of boots on the ground just think of how much more difficult it would be here in the USA were the most armed populace in world history resides and do it in the middle of a depression scenario.
have a little faith that the founders of our nation understood the nature of government and the governed when they wrote the Bill of Rights, frankly all thats left is for us to do is take courage and for some others to grow a pair.
 

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The government is still made up of individuals, and don't go thinking that every government employee (incl. military) loves his or her boss. Every single one of them is a link in the government chain, and if those links are no longer inclined to pull together, the government won't be functioning even as "well" as it is now. At some point, agencies and programs deemed non-essential will have to be cut and resources allocated elsewhere. Considering how many of these are staffed and in some cases entirely operated by contractors with no real government equivalent, capabilities will deteriorate as the contract dollars stop flowing. If the federal government reduces or eliminates funding to state and local law enforcement, I don't expect local police to be nearly as willing to try disarming citizens.

Furthermore, if you think of how much of America's military manpower consists of reserves, and those reservists are worried about what's happening in their own homes right before their eyes, I doubt (m)any will be particularly eager to start policing their fellow citizens, especially if that government paycheck might not show up in time to feed the kids or pay the rent back home. Will they show up as ordered? Most probably will, but this isn't the kind of thing our troops are trained for. Clearing an alleged insurgent's hideout is a far cry from knocking down doors in suburbia to collect guns from Americans. It won't be pretty, efficient or terribly effective. And when the first "accidental" deaths start getting reported, that's when you have a real rebellion on your hands.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
do you have any idea how much logistical support the government would need to undertake what your proposing? and do it in the aftermath of a financial callapse? i dont think so, we could'nt disarm the populations of iraq or afganistan in ten years of boots on the ground just think of how much more difficult it would be here in the USA were the most armed populace in world history resides and do it in the middle of a depression scenario.
have a little faith that the founders of our nation understood the nature of government and the governed when they wrote the Bill of Rights, frankly all thats left is for us to do is take courage and for some others to grow a pair.
You may be right but in a situation like that, we'd be the enemy because we can't oblige. That would result in the herding and door-to-door searches. That would result in the inevitable.

Like it or not, criminals are being put out in the streets because jails are too full. Soldiers are coming back home to find that many of them don't have marketable skills in a limited job market. Many turn to being mercenaries. We have college grads who can't find work and many feel "entitled". We have the occupy movement that has happened for a reason. Things are not getting better and if they get to a point where in here think it'll go, we're could very well be the enemy because there isn't enough to go around.

We might even get to a point where people trade in their arms or sell information about each other for extra rations.
 
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