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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
And the second one an Ak47. After that you can buy a bolt rifle if you want.
I’m posting this after reading the “Why your first gun should be for hunting”, thread, and thought it would be better to start a new one instead of hijacking a thread.
No one in his sane mind will argue that having means to defend yourself and your family is of greater importance than hunting. You can live all your life without hunting, millions do so. Now self defense situations you don’t choose, they just happen.
Problems start when people think a bolt action rifle is an adequate self defense weapon, since nothing is farther form the truth.
It bluntly violates the first law of firearm self defense which is “Have a gun”. You don’t carry around your bolt rifle or any other long arm for that matter, so that’s why as underpowered and inaccurate as it may be, your handgun is your main firearm, because it’s the one you will likely have with you… if you are consistent and carry on regular basis.
A few more points:

1) You don’t “pick” your fights, they choose you. Someone in the thread said that his priority was to keep his girl and himself safe, so he simply plans on avoiding dangerous situations… DUDE! its not you call. You’re not God. And you’ll certainly wont get no gunfight invitation so you can pick your bolt action rifle, place a few sandbags, and start shooting bad guys 100 yards away.
2) Saying you’ll just avoid gunfights is like saying “I don’t need a first aid kit because I don’t plan on getting wounded… ever” or “ I don’t need insurance or a fire extinguisher because I don’t plan on burning down my house, why would I?”
3) You wont be shooting people 100 yards away, you’ll shoot them more than likely at less than 10 yards, most probably at contact range with a bit of wrestling, weapon retention and hand to hand combat involved.
4) The average engagement range in modern warfare is less than 50 yards, if I’m remembering well at least 50% at less than 25 a yards. An L.A. SWAT sniper with + 20 years of experience mentioned that his longest shot was at 25 yards. And we’re talking sniper here guys, in an offensive role, not self defense role.
5) This may be mind numbing for some, but having a detachable magazine fed semiauto rifle or handgun doesn’t hack into your brain and turn you into a useless fool. You don’t HAVE to “spray and pray” just because you have a standard capacity magazine in a semi auto. You can still aim before shooting and use ammo with discretion if your situation requires it.
6) What you have is all you have. If you have a bolt action rifle and 20 rounds, that’s all you have. If you have a Glock with 50 rounds, and an AK with 200, that’s all you have as well.
Planning on “scrounging” the battlefield… or your neighborhood block expecting to find MBR and cans full of ammo is ridiculous. I think it doesn’t even happen in videogames any more. Seriously, you might as well expect for bags full of gold to drop from the sky, it wont happen, and even if that could happen, its such a far fetched possibility that you can’t make that part of a serious plan.
7) Someone said, you fight like you train, so if a bolt action is your entire self defense weaponry, I wouldn’t want to be you when you need to defend yourself. Not only will you lack the basic tool, you’ll lack the training with such tool as well.
8) The tread starter (Hick Industries) mentioned that “Once you learn to shoot a full power bolt action rifle at long range, ie beyond 400 yds you may find that a battle rifle is not needed.”
This is wrong in so many ways. Assuming that because you manage to shoot longer distances, you have shorter distance self defense already covered. It’s different skills, different weaponry, it’s got nothing to do with self defense shooting. According to that statement benchrest shooters don’t need fighting rifles, or even fighting skills, when the truth is a guy that can shoot a MOA at 600 yards can be taken down like a child, since one thing doesn’t imply the other.

Just wanted to mention those things. If things keep getting worse up there, self defense will no longer be something certain folks do just because they feel they may need it one day, but it will become a basic survival skill.
If you hunt by all mean own your hunting rifle, just don’t think you have self defense covered because you don’t.
I’d hate to think what would happen to some folks if they follow misinformed advice.

FerFAL
 

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I have the three basics:
A handgun (*baby* Glock C36)
A shotgun (.12 gauge autoloader 8+ 1)
A semi-auto long gun (SIG 556)

I have 300+ rounds of ammo for each. Adding more each payday.
I have 10 magazines for the SIG. Buying more as I can afford to.
I invest money in range time to train on each weapon.

Do I want/need/desire more weapons?
Duh:rolleyes:...yes.
BUT...until I feel I am competent with the ones I have AND I have what I consider ample ammunition for each, I will not go in search of any others.
 

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Meh...What does this FerFAL person know about survival anyway?

:p
Troll!...




Just kidding; I know it's tongue in cheek:D: ...|Sarcasm detected...humor processed...laughter commenced...laughter terminated

But yeah. The man makes some good points. The biggest plus in having a gun that you can conceal is the fact that you can carry it with or without the "permission" of your corrupt officials when the time comes that venturing out in public becomes a high risk activity and the saying " rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" takes on a new meaning.
 

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Lol everybody has a diffirent opinion for a first gun.

Some say handgun, others say AK, others say shotgun.

I think it depends on your situation. If you live in Downtown LA, I would go for a handgun rather then a hunting rifle. If you live in the middle of nowhere somewhere in the woods or mountains, a rifle might be a better choice. Just to name some extreme situation. You'll have to decide what's best for yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
But yeah. The man makes some good points. The biggest plus in having a gun that you can conceal is the fact that you can carry it with or without the "permission" of your corrupt officials when the time comes that venturing out in public becomes a high risk activity and the saying " rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" takes on a new meaning.
It’s a BIG risk, but absolutely, it gets to a point where you tell yourself “ok, I’m not “ allowed” to carry, but that won’t make me any less dead if I get killed on the streets”.
Crime goes up, laws are made to disarm citizens, crime gets ridiculous, you see and hear people around you getting hurt, etc, so yes, you’ll need handgun to protect yourself, to carry around with you and at least have a chance.
Also important to notice is that maybe you don’t feel the need to be armed all the time right now, because crime isn’t that bad where you live. That’s why people feel ok with their long guns, but when people around you start getting hurt, that need to be armed when on the streets becomes much more urgent.

FerFAL
 

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I think it depends on your situation. If you live in Downtown LA, I would go for a handgun rather then a hunting rifle. If you live in the middle of nowhere somewhere in the woods or mountains, a rifle might be a better choice. Just to name some extreme situation. You'll have to decide what's best for yourself.
I disagree! No matter where you live, you'll be inside buildings, attending meetings, having dinner, working in the yard. The hand gun can be with you every waking hour.
 

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1st gun... handgun - for convenient carry and close-proximity defense.

2nd gun... shotgun - for devastating close/intermediate-distance situations (plus, slugs out to 50 or 75 yards).

3rd gun... rifle - for blue helmets at long range.

That's a good priority order for fulfilling needs. After you have those three, you can start to play around... another handgun, and different rifle configurations. Of course, everything depends on your own personal situation.
 

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For the record, I agree with FerFAL for the most part.

Let's face it, some of us have limited budgets and families to care for.

After a pistol, on a limited budget (AK's aren't cheap anymore), I'd spring for the shotgun with 2 barrels (smooth bore, one short and one long), spending on ammo accordingly for hunting with shot and slugs.

*I'd only do this if I couldn't afford a rifle at the time but needed something.

If you can get the rifle after the pistol do so, shotguns are everywhere.

After that, I'd look for something, anything in a .22.
 

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I disagree! No matter where you live, you'll be inside buildings, attending meetings, having dinner, working in the yard. The hand gun can be with you every waking hour.

^ This...

First, I'd get a Compact handgun.

Then a Defensive, Mag fed Autoloading rifle

Then a second handgun (What, you think the cops just give em back to you?)

Then extras like shotguns and .22's.
 

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For the record, I agree with FerFAL for the most part.

Let's face it, some of us have limited budgets and families to care for.

After a pistol, on a limited budget (AK's aren't cheap anymore), I'd spring for the shotgun with 2 barrels (smooth bore, one short and one long), spending on ammo accordingly for hunting with shot and slugs.

*I'd only do this if I couldn't afford a rifle at the time but needed something.

If you can get the rifle after the pistol do so, shotguns are everywhere.

After that, I'd look for something, anything in a .22.
I could get by on a Glock 26 and an SKS.

Wouldn't want to, but I could. (And I've seen several reciently for under $200 so don't try quoting the 'gunbroker prices' to me.)

Shotguns.... Meh, stand at 250 yards and try to hit with it, take a bunch of shots, take a bunch of shots in a reduced amount of time.

In "To ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth"

Col Jeff Cooper makes a good case for why anything but a Pistol and a Autoloading rifle are 'nice to haves' only.
 

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I could get by on a Glock 26 and an SKS.

Wouldn't want to, but I could. (And I've seen several reciently for under $200 so don't try quoting the 'gunbroker prices' to me.)

Shotguns.... Meh, stand at 250 yards and try to hit with it, take a bunch of shots, take a bunch of shots in a reduced amount of time.

In "To ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth"

Col Jeff Cooper makes a good case for why anything but a Pistol and a Autoloading rifle are 'nice to haves' only.
I agree, I don't have much expectations from a shogun (even with a slug) past 75 yards. Even up close for what happens after the first 6 or 8 shots and a reload.

But us po' folk need sumthin. :)

Excellent point about the second pistol to consider.

Edited

Forgot about the SKS.
 

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I agree about the merit of the pistols. If we are talking purely for self defense then to me a pistol is #1 choice ( a GLOCK to be exact ), no question about it, it will be with me 24/7 if necessary. Then the shotgun with a buckshot, I can't think of a better choice to defend my house without risking to kill my next door neighbor( even a side by side would do it nicely ). If I need anything else for self defense I screwed up and don't deserve to live. However, if I anticipated to be in the all out gang war between the neighborhoods, an AK47 and a sniper rifle would be my top choices.
 

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just to clarify....

I'd only go for the shotgun next if finances were a factor. I can still find $100 shotguns.

Under most circumstances you are much better off with a rifle than a shotgun.

Shotguns fill a very specific role, don't get me wrong, I love shotguns. A one ounce slug at close range can be devastating. But if that's all one had and were stuck with, you would be severely limited in range and carrying capacity.
 

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Lol everybody has a diffirent opinion for a first gun.

Some say handgun, others say AK, others say shotgun.

I think it depends on your situation. If you live in Downtown LA, I would go for a handgun rather then a hunting rifle. If you live in the middle of nowhere somewhere in the woods or mountains, a rifle might be a better choice. Just to name some extreme situation. You'll have to decide what's best for yourself.
I disagree! No matter where you live, you'll be inside buildings, attending meetings, having dinner, working in the yard. The hand gun can be with you every waking hour.

I agree with both Wolfe and Declan's comments above.

While it may be true that a handgun is with you always, each individual has their own set of circumstances.

I realize most do not live as far out in the boonies as we do, and most have more exposure to crime and predators of the human type. If this were my situation, I'd of course say handgun all the way.

I have a family. We do not live in a city, and we spend most of our time at home, way out in the nowheres.

I chose a shotgun first for my family. It is the most versatile, with the ability to take both large and small game, and defend the home.

We do hunt. I understand most folks don't.

My children could defend our home with the shotgun. Their little hands could not use my .45 effectively.

I would make the most use of a shotgun, having very little reason for choosing a handgun over it 99% of the time, if ever.

That said, I purchased the shotgun first knowing full-well I'd be purchasing a handgun shortly thereafter.


But that is today....

We can all argue in circles around our personal choices. No one can argue the value of a handgun's portability and concealabilty.

I also take into account this wisdom shared in the OP was derived from experience in living through societal breakdown.

We have to deal with others, some of them downright nasty. It would be foolish to go-about unarmed, even today imo, but moreso in the future as things become increasingly chaotic.

Firearms are like potato chips... :)
 

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My first gun was NOT a handgun! then again I was only 12...LOL
 
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