Survivalist Forum banner

The elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about

6880 286
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
1 - 20 of 287 Posts

· wanderin' roun somewhars
Joined
·
530 Posts
The implication of your outline suggests some type of population control. That, too, is a problem because most people resist any type of control. So, to reduce the population you have to exercise some type of weeding out program that won't be popular with anyone.

Another solution might be to reduce or eliminate social programs forcing people to become self-reliant. Families would be responsible for themselves and freeloaders should become self-sufficient. Obviously, those already on government programs may rebell because they don't want to lose their benefits nor have to work. Some would adapt and overcome and some would become criminals to feed off of others.

It's a mess to be sure and people don't want to talk about it because it's a stinking mess.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
Even India is slowing down and may stabilize in a few years. Couples should have at least 2 kids with an occasional 3 thrown in. Elon Musk has mentioned this. Retirement ages probably should be raised for social security and Medicare. The world is crazy today. Straights live together and don't get married. Gays marry, but can't produce kids. Young people are waiting to have kids later, and that may cause complications and end up with only one child. I have a book that says the US could support a population the size of China with our current standard of living. More stuff grown in greenhouses, more nuclear power plants, etc. More underground and high rise living.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,242 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
Yep.
 

· Purposeful Prepper
Joined
·
2,250 Posts
Part of the problem is that Washington DC is populated by a bunch of political whores who are pandering for votes. Too much of their strategy for being re-elected is to buy votes with various government benefits and handouts.

If the government had some policy for determining what the government is going to do for each person that would be a start and much better than this current system of cradle to grave benefits with no apparent limit.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,003 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
I'm not taking your vaccine either........
 

· Badass Moderator 🤷
Joined
·
10,218 Posts
Even India is slowing down and may stabilize in a few years. Couples should have at least 2 kids with an occasional 3 thrown in. Elon Musk has mentioned this. Retirement ages probably should be raised for social security and Medicare. The world is crazy today. Straights live together and don't get married. Gays marry, but can't produce kids. Young people are waiting to have kids later, and that may cause complications and end up with only one child. I have a book that says the US could support a population the size of China with our current standard of living. More stuff grown in greenhouses, more nuclear power plants, etc. More underground and high rise living.
Damn. That sounds miserable (from the old lady who has a nice little suburban lot but neighbors close enough they can see in my kitchen window from their bedroom window and I can see in the other neighbor's kitchen window from my bedroom window 🤷). I don't want to live in anything even remotely resembling some of the "apartments" in NYC that are the size of my closets (mid-60s normal sized). Or those coffin apartments in China ... The 'Coffin Homes' of Hong Kong

Do you recall the title of the book??
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
You can't shrink a population and have all the entitlements, safety nets, wasteful spending (yes that absolutely includes military, police and education spending), and dead weight from those that don't want to work (including the elderly). Retirement is a luxury that two, maybe three generations will enjoy, for anyone under ~ 45yo who hasn't 100% secured their retirement outside of government, there's essentially no such thing and they will work until the day they die.

Population collapse is probably the greatest threat the West will see because of the sustained turbulence and instability it brings to system built on never ending grown, expansion and consumption. Compounding the problem is most people who are having children shouldn't be, the ones that should be either aren't having kids or aren't having enough, so the replacement population is full of low IQ, low culture, low moral, low output individuals.

Look at Texas and how it's turned purple and will eventually turn blue just like CO did. All these "proud conservatives" either aren't having kids or are having one or two. They're simply being outbred.

I'm doing my part. I have five great kids that I'm raising to be good human beings and yeah, it's very difficult these days, but what's the alternative?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,060 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
The number of illegals storming our boarder who have medical needs, no money, no jobs, and 10 kids is much bigger problem than the number of "old" people.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
462 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
I dont think who we vote in, really matters that much anymore. The bureaucrats run this country.

I have heard this "2.5" kids argument for years and no one yet has explained to me why it HAS to happen. If you are talking about it from an economic output, the math simply does not add up. If I have less population over a 50-100 period, than the amount of goods/services provided will also dwindle. The boomer generation is coming to the end of the cycle, nothing against the Boomers, but nature does her thing and none of us are exempt.
So, the boomer generation of 4 kids on avg is passing away and leaving a generation of 2.5 kids. That means LESS resources will be used and ar a much higher efficiency rating than the Boomer generation.

I would be more concerned about China and India needs resources, but both countries seem content on buying American Crops and keeping a billion people(each) in what amounts to extreme poverty.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
The number of illegals storming our boarder who have medical needs, no money, no jobs, and 10 kids is much bigger problem than the number of "old" people.
This is an ignorant way of looking at things and economically wrong. How much does SS, Federal pensions and Medicare cost? What's the net cost (assuming there is any) of illegal immigration?

Long term voting may be a problem, except 2nd and 3rd gen Hispanics are increasingly voting the lesser of two evils and Hispanics in general are harder working and more conservative than the general U.S. population. Republicans are just too retarded (and likely racist) to recognize that, court Hispanics and capitalize off of it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
I dont think who we vote in, really matters that much anymore. The bureaucrats run this country.

I have heard this "2.5" kids argument for years and no one yet has explained to me why it HAS to happen. If you are talking about it from an economic output, the math simply does not add up. If I have less population over a 50-100 period, than the amount of goods/services provided will also dwindle. The boomer generation is coming to the end of the cycle, nothing against the Boomers, but nature does her thing and none of us are exempt.
So, the boomer generation of 4 kids on avg is passing away and leaving a generation of 2.5 kids. That means LESS resources will be used and ar a much higher efficiency rating than the Boomer generation.

I would be more concerned about China and India needs resources, but both countries seem content on buying American Crops and keeping a billion people(each) in what amounts to extreme poverty.
Because there's a ton of overlap, especially given how long people are living today and the vast drain they are upon resources in unproductive old age. My grandma hasn't done a damn thing with her life and never worked a day in her life, yet she's still pulling my grandpa's pension and SS, and using medicare.

China's population collapse and the problems associated with it will happen around a decade sooner than the U.S.. China has a ton of problems and with current leadership running the country into the ground and laying the seeds of unrest, the next 10-15 years will be interesting for them. The commies will have to double down on nationalism and control the lives and accessible information citizens have more and more to maintain control. Sooner or later they will reach an internal breaking point.
 

· Pisticus Veritas
Very Prepared!!
Joined
·
67,955 Posts
I see lots of posts on how the US financial system is going to collapse but few discussions on how it could be fixed. Part of this is because nobody seems to want to address the real issue. Lots of people say "government should have , could have blah blah blah" but no solutions.

Here is the problem:
lets say you have 1 million people population. Those people pair up in couples and have 1 kid each couple. The new population is now half a million. Half a million get together and have 1 kid each and now the new population is now a quarter million. And so on.
Now you add the medical system and big pharma keeps old and sick people alive as long as possible and some of them are not producing anything for sometimes 30 years or more.
So the now smaller population of working people have to somehow support the gigantic population of old people.
It's even worse than that. Nothing can be done to fix this in any way, because the gigantic population of old people has the majority vote and control the government.
The math in this is obviously oversimplified, but you get the picture. The system as it was set up is only functional if you have continuous population growth. The population has to have at least 2.5 or so kids average to remain the same, but everywhere on the planet except third world ****holes it is shrinking, even in China. All of Europe, Russia, China, US the population is shrinking .

At the moment the US and western Europe are scrambling to keep the system going as is by importing third world immigrants.

The other problem is this: if you did have continuous population growth, the world is going to most definitely run out of resources.

So the problem is how to shrink a population and have a functional economic system that does not depend on population growth.
Klaus Schwab has the solution. But I don't like his solution.

I like turning things over to the free market. Keeping the government out of things is generally a safe bet since they've proven time and again that they're completely incompetent and untrustworthy. And I'm wholly opposed to social engineering. When we go down that path ... we're allowing a handful of Elitist, Empty Suits to play gods with our lives. The best way for the economy to recover is to eliminate Socialist programs and to spend money wisely.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
Klaus Schwab has the solution. But I don't like his solution.

I like turning things over to the free market. Keeping the government out of things is generally a safe bet since they've proven time and again that they're completely incompetent and untrustworthy. And I'm wholly opposed to social engineering. When we go down that path ... we're allowing a handful of Elitist, Empty Suits to play gods with our lives. The best way for the economy to recover is to eliminate Socialist programs and to spend money wisely.
100% agree. The only way forward is for the government to shrink drastically and to allow market forces to work.

The only thing government should be doing is incentivizing the right people to breed, and wrong people not to.

Only way I see to do this is to offer paid sterilization to entice those who don't take parenting seriously to not have kids (less payout the more kids you have) which saves massively long term on welfare, incarceration, public ed and police costs and then to offer healthy tax deductions (not credits) to those who pay net taxes.
 

· Pisticus Veritas
Very Prepared!!
Joined
·
67,955 Posts
100% agree. The only way forward is for the government to shrink drastically and to allow market forces to work.

The only thing government should be doing is incentivizing the right people to breed, and wrong people not to.

Only way I see to do this is to offer paid sterilization to entice those who don't take parenting seriously to not have kids (less payout the more kids you have) and then to offer healthy tax deductions (not credits) to those who pay net taxes.
Agreed. Flooding the West with 3rd-Worlders is the LAST thing to do (unless you have an agenda to destroy the West, in which case it's exactly what you DO want to do). In the meantime ... folks like us will just have to figure out how to survive on the fly. We know that the government doesn't have our best interests at heart (both sides of the aisle) and that nobody has a plan to actually fix our economy. So we'll just have to create a million micro, localized economies of our own.
 
1 - 20 of 287 Posts
Top