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12K views 87 replies 29 participants last post by  IC_Rafe  
#1 ·
Seeing a recent post that talked about a Time magazine article on the "Navy Seal E & E kit" made me think about my own kit. I keep in my trunk a GHB in a backpack (pretty light, about 10 lbs) to be augmented by my "E & E" bag - in other words, the bag I'd have if I had to ditch everything and run like hell.

So, I set out to re-fit it for such a scenario. The barest of bare essentials. I thought I could fit it in a small 4" x 6" x 2" hip pack, but not a chance. Sure, a super minimalist bag would be great, but every scenario is different.

In a suburban/urban area it is plausible to have to break into things (cars, buildings, sheds) to survive for a night, steal water from buildings, and defend myself. This standalone pack doesn't take into account my EDC - flashlight, money, kerchief, knife, and gun (AO depending).

This subject has been beat to death, I'm sure, but I thought some nice pics and some detail would add to the discussion for the noobs.

I'm open to suggestions, of course, but have ZERO room for anything else in this bag other than a few more dollar bills.

FWIW: It weighs 6 lb 4 oz.

Have at it:


BAG:

  • Maxpedition Gearslinger

FIRE:

  • (2) Bic lighter

TOOLS:

  • Silcock key
  • (4) Zipties
  • 24 tph hacksaw blade
  • Handcuff key
  • Cold Steel folding knife
  • Photon light (blue on pack sling))
  • Nitecore Headlamp (on sling for quickest access and no room inside)
  • (8) AA batteries
  • (10') Duct tape (wrapped around saw blade as a handle)
  • (5) Razors
  • Paracord
  • (20') Snarewire
  • Cash and coins
  • Lock picks (not pictured - need to choose the most valuable)
  • Gerber multi-tool
  • S-biner
  • P51 can opener (yes, it's better than the P38, on order)
  • Signal mirror (on order)
    (1)50 feet TEX 90 Nylon thread 15 lb test (wrapped around lighter)
  • 5 zip ties

MED:

  • Kerchief
  • (2) Hexmine tabs
  • (3) Neosporin packs (hiding under mini HALOS)
  • (3) HALO-seal style bandaids
  • (3) Alcohol wipes
  • (4) Excedrin migraine (w/ caffeine)
  • (4) "Go" pills
  • Celox gauze (may add granule pack)
  • Israeli bandage
  • Emergency blanket
  • (6) Wet wipes
(I left out the HALO, tournequet, and other MASCAS stuff. If I have to run, and I'm shot, I'm probably dead anyhow. Not that it isn't in my trunk, just not in this pack)

WATER/FOOD:

  • Datrex bars
  • Chlor-Floc tabs
  • Collapsible water bottle

NAV:

  • Space pen (to be purchased - using tactical pen for now, but doesn't write as well)
  • Mini Compass (to be purchased)
  • Jess waterproof pad

OTHER:

  • Gloves
  • Watch hat

PICS:















 
#3 · (Edited)
Great set up. An idea I got from m4040.com
For your hacksaw blade. Make a knife also. If you are looking e&e in shtf you could make a few of these one per shoe. Wallet. Jacket stitching. For a few bucks in blades and a dremel. I made 2 from one blade in about 15-20 mins. Good for using the hacksaw blade part for trap notching. Sorry not a great pic but an idea for you.
 

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#6 ·
Good idea to be able to make a blade. But I have a Cold Steel on my RLH (I'm coining that phrase - a "Run Like Hell" bag) and a Gerber multi-tool. My EDC is a Benchmade folder. And there is also a Strider combat knife on my GHB.
 
#5 ·
What makes you think people will conveniently leave your bag near you when they put you in handcuffs? :p

(i'll have to look into that bag though, could use one for small stuff in addition to my backpack for things like stashing a map and stuff i need to access a lot ;). Edit: nevermind, that thing is a lot bigger than it looks.)
 
#7 ·
I figured just as back up stashed under insoles of shoes. Hidden last ditch option. I wouldn't trust it for my edc. I have a Kershaw blur and a brawler are my edc options and a Leatherman rebar are on me daily. I love the RLH bag. I may have to use that. Definitely a great set up though.
 
#9 ·
I might add that the silcock key is a cheap, underrated tool. It will unlock water from most buildings. About 8.00 on Amazon. Being arrested is a very minor concern for me - but I think it makes sense in most conditions. I'm not a NOC operating behind enemy lines. Just an American trying to be prepared for a plausible scenario.
 
#24 ·
Great lists and ideas in this thread, thanks everyone for sharing their kits.
I'm currently too in the process of designing an "Urban Escape & Evasion Kit"
It's based around the 5.11 Bail out Bag.

Pic related


I have a large MOLLE pouch that's strapped to the inside of the bag. I did this to have some extra compartmentation.
The contents are:
-Baofeng UV5R
-Sawyer Mini Waterfilter + its straw
-2x Chemical handwarmer
-iPhone 4 charging cable + wall adapter
-small mint tin with Acetaminophen, Ibuprofen and Diclophenac
-There is still room for some medical items, but I don't have that sorted out yet

One of the side compartments is empty, I'm planning to put some IFAK items in there.

The other side compartment holds:
-Notebook
-Cash
-Silcock key
-black Edding permanent markers
-Acoustic ear phone with PTT for the walkie talkie (Not very inconspicuous..)
-Dextro tablets
-Black electrical tape
-earplugs
-iPhone 6 Lightning cable
+a ballpoint pen and a cheap chinese double AAA fashlight on the outside of this compartment

On the front there are 3 double AR15 mag pouches on the front, in there I've got the following:

1:
-USB Powerbank
-Jailbroken iPhone 4S with downloaded maps, no internet needed
-spare UV5R battery

2:
-UV5R antenna
-Insulin pen case with:
--Southord lockpick set
--jiggler set

3:
-sunglasses case
-cheap multitool
-small phillips head screwdriver

I might have to rearrange some things when I get to the medical stuff. there is now a pair of mechanix gloves that fill the still half-full bag.
I wonder how much medical stuff and what items I should get.
Edit:
Because of this thread I repacked my bag and tried a new arrangement. I put everything that was in the MOLLE pouch in the empty side compartment that I had left, and it fit perfectly.
Now I've got the entire main compartment empty. (Divided in two bits by the MOLLE pouch which is 30 percent of the main compartment.

Now what to do with all that empty space.... Hmmm so many possibilities.
I'll probably try and jam a dual band ham radio antenna in there...


I might add that the silcock key is a cheap, underrated tool. It will unlock water from most buildings.
Must have item indeed.

I also have a set of these jiggler keys. They work very well on any wafer type lock.
http://www.dx.com/p/neje-10-piece-set-lock-picks-lock-opener-silver-359342#.VwUqFxOLSRs
And I also got these: http://www.dx.com/p/edcgear-handy-first-aid-stop-bleeding-tourniquet-black-silver-338660
 
#10 ·
Hiding it on your person in your clothing etc in advance, is what you're supposed to do with it. If you get arrested though, you'll get searched and they do know where to look (hell, if you get tied up by anyone with the plan to do it, they'll have seen the same E&E video's you have, and you won't have anything on you either. People aren't stupid if they plan stuff like that in general.). you also won't be in a room but in a cell. Good luck getting away from the cops when they are going to take you in (i'll choose not to do stuff which gets me arrested in general xD)
 
#12 ·
Oh, i didn't mean to talk only about the key. Handcuffs were a general. Most E&E kits i've seen also have a small cord saw etc, to cut through bindings for example. But that stuff is useless if it's in a bag, and not on your person at all times (since i believe you can't really predict when you'll be put into the situation if it would happen).
 
#13 ·
Most of the time you will see an arrest coming. Short of sewing keys into my pants, it at least gives me a few extra seconds to pull it out and stash it in the crack of my ass.
Clearly, you've never been arrested.
Do you think they are simply going to ignore you twisting & turning, digging around in your ass fishing out a tiny, hard to use key & sit by while you thrash about attempting to unlock your cuffs behind your back?????
You guys & your Jason Bourne/Jack Baur fantasies kill me . . .
 
#14 ·
I would suggest adding - a good fixed blade knife, rain poncho, Drum liner, DEET, wool socks, small first aid kit - moleskin, needle thread dental floss, signal mirror, neosporin, bandaids, benedryl tabs, aspirin, naprox, some salt, SWAT TQ, wet wipes, spare battery for cell phone or charger, ball cap to shield the eyes. And a couple bottles of water. Not just an empty roll up container.
Some sort of weapon: - hatchet, pepper spray or gun.
Good boots.

Replace cordage with tarred bankline. Gerber with swiss spirit or leatherman wave.
I would just use a small backpack.
 
#15 ·
This is just my humble opinion, but at a certain point, there are too damn many kits/packs to be practical and some of their functions just need to be combined.

What I see here is an EDC bag with escape tools.

In my mind, that makes it an EDC bag and you think escape items are essential to an EDC. Cool. I mean, I have a P38 and a Handcuff key on my keychain...

I don't think this is so much an E&E kit as it is an EDC kit with some thought put into urban environment escape scenarios.
 
#17 ·
E&E kit

Unless E&E means something other than Escape & Evasion to the OP, then I believe I would have quite a different list of items for those tasks. It would duplicate much of my everyday carry, since it is extensive and lends itself to E&E. But if I was at risk of being stopped and searched, I would cache the kit and some of the EDC, with just enough on me to hopefully make an escape, and then get to the kit to evade recapture, again caching the bulk of the kit if re-capture was imminent.

First, the EDC:
My EDC when around town: Prescription glasses w/Transition lenses; Samsung Galaxy S4 Android Smartphone loaded with prep apps; Limeade 13,000mAh power pack w/cord; Yaesu VX-8DR handheld Amateur radio w/spare batteries & AAA battery case; 2x Maglite Solitaire LED flashlight; USB flashlight; Redi-edge knife sharpener; whistle; handcuff key, pocket knife; medications in cache tube; 2 bandannas; Bic lighter; GeoTube w/Duracell Quantum AAA batteries; Gentleman’s SAK; Leatherman Micra; eyeglass screwdriver tool; GeoTube w/eyeglass screws; P-51 can opener; handcuff key; Res-Q-Me seatbelt cutter/window breaker; slim USB drive; USB LED light; Write In The Rain notebook; 2 Fisher tactical clip cap Space pens; Seiko SNZG15K1 self-winding watch w/compass watchband; Wallet with Ready-Man wallet lock-pick, survival, and E&E cards; folding knife card; Jeans & long sleeve sport/dress shirt; Bullhide belts leather money belt; leather suspenders; WinterSilks V-neck T-shirt; WinterSilks boxer briefs; Merino wool socks; leather safari jacket w/light leather gloves; Henschel wide brim hat; Mission EnduraCool multi-cool tube scarf; Danner Ft. Lewis boots; Glock 21SF and 4 spare magazines in IWB holster/pouches, T-handle walking stick

Plus the following for the colder weather:
insulated leather gloves; ear warmers; silk or wool scarf/shemagh; Winter Silks silk and/or Eddie Bauer Merino wool V-neck long john shirt and pants; silk sock and glove liners; silk balaclava; Merino wool balaclava; second layer wool socks; toe, foot, and hand warmer packets; CaBoots lambswool lined shotgun boots

When I go camping or to the field I add: pocket no-see-um headnet; Permethrin treated clothing: Propper khaki cargo pants; Propper 2 pocket khaki shirt w/epaulets; Zippo lighter w/2 fuel tubes; Cammenga 3H Tritium lensatic compass; Leatherman Surge multi-tool; Victorinox SwissChamp SAK; Surefire G2 LED; 28-40oz SS Kleen Kanteen water bottle w/carabiner; 6 fatwood sticks; Lifefire tin; Lightning Strike fire starter; Lightning Strike spare tinder tube; UCO matches; 50’ 750 cord; hiking staff, hook handle cane, or Shepard's staff

And for cold weather in the field: Carhartt Extreme bibs, Carhartt Extreme parka with hood, Sorel Pac boots.

If I thought I would be captured I would stash my EDC except for the following:
Maglite Solitaire LED flashlight, medications in cache tube; bandanna; Bic lighter; Gentleman’s SAK; Leatherman Micra; eyeglass screwdriver tool; handcuff key; Wallet with Ready-Man wallet survival and E&E cards; folding knife card; leather suspenders; WinterSilks V-neck T-shirt; WinterSilks boxer briefs; Merino wool socks; leather safari jacket w/light leather gloves; Henschel wide brim hat; Danner Ft. Lewis boots; pocket no-see-um headnet; Permethrin treated clothing: Propper khaki cargo pants; Propper 2 pocket khaki shirt w/epaulets; 28-40oz SS Kleen Kanteen water bottle w/carabiner; hook handle cane

The E&E kit would include:
Coyote brown GI poncho w/Wiggy’s hooded insulated liner – for concealment, rain gear, sleeping bag, and the rest of the items are Zip-lock bagged and wrapped up and lashed inside

Ready-Man wallet lock-pick, survival, and E&E cards – These are all aids in escaping if need be

Folding knife card – escape if need be and last ditch knife if others are taken or lost

$1,000 in $1, $5, $10, $20, & $100 bills, bit of small change – stashed in several places. Used to buy your way out or to buy supplies that might be needed.

1/10oz gold eagles, some silver eagles, and pre-1965 circulated US dimes and quarters – ditto the cash

2 rolls un-waxed dental floss – for making ghillie suit type covers, fish nets, other lashings

Petzl micro headlamp – Model with night filter for hands free use at night

Maglite Solitaire LED flashlight – general use, takes AAA battery

USB LED flashlight – good chance of getting it charged if any smartphone stuff is around

Extendible spy mirror – to see without being seen

2x handcuff key – additional keys stashed in a couple of places so one might go undetected

pocket knife – just general use knife

medications in cache tube – prescription and OTC meds

2 bandannas – khaki or other subdued for hiding face, warmth, sling, etc.

Small Write In The Rain notebook – to make critical notes, directions, etc.

Fisher tactical clip cap Space pen – to write in the notebook

Button compass – for basic navigation

pocket no-see-um headnet – bugs can drive you to distraction, make you make sounds, etc.

Leatherman Surge multi-tool w/bits – comprehensive tool to fix things, disable things, get into things, get out of things, etc.

Victorinox SwissChamp SAK – ditto the Surge

50’ 750 cord – more cordage for lashing, but also making mantraps
300’ #42 Bankline – more cordage for lashing and for trip wires
20 assorted zip-ties – more ways to secure things and to immobilize people
Partial roll of black Gorilla tape – yet another way to secure things, immobilize, and gag people

Bic lighter - #1 way to start fires
UCO matches - #2 way to start fires
Lightning Strike fire starter - #3 way to start fires
6 fatwood sticks - #1 Tinder
Lifefire tin - #2 Tinder

P-51 can opener – to open any cans of ‘found’ food
Jerky – plain, as much as you can stuff in
Horlick’s Malt tablets – Iron rations to keep your health up in addition to jerky
Teabags (or coffee packets) – for a hot drink to refresh you
Sugar packets – extra energy for use in the tea/coffee
Coffee mate packets – extra energy/flavor for use in tea/coffee
Water flavoring packets – to mask taste of treated water

4-way silcock key – get water from commercial/business buildings
Katadyn Micro-Pur MP-1 water purification tablets – purify any found water
Survival Resources pre-filter support sheath & coffee filters – to pre-filter water
Another bandana – to pre-filter water
2x 1-quart water bags – use when purifying water
40-oz wide mouth Kleen Kanteen – use to boil water, carry drinking water
Olicamp folding handle nesting cup, cup lid, and cup stove – to heat water and drink

Optional:
Cold Steel Rifleman’s Tomahawk – weapon, make shelter, cut wood, hammer, etc.
Cold Steel Entrenching Tool – weapon, dig hides, make shelter

Just my opinion.
 
This post has been deleted
#19 ·
OK - I really appreciate all the input. Maybe I should have clarified that I pretty much have everything listed above in the trunk of my car. The point of this is that is an ESCAPE & EVADE bag or RLH (RUN LIKE HELL) bag. The point of it being - light, fast, and the barest of essentials.

Here are some salient responses:

I don't plan on getting arrested, nor have I ever. The key is there as a last ditch effort (think sleeping in a shed with cops saying "come on out with your hands up"

My AO is urban to heavy suburban - all the woodsman stuff isn't going to do much and adds weight.

"You guys & your Jason Bourne/Jack Baur fantasies kill me . ." - Spare me

Lone Viking - best suggestion for an urban E&E/RLH bag - wire cutters.

Tourniquet - It's on my GHB. If I am having to run like hell and I need a tourney - I'm out of the game anyhow.

So I took everyone's suggestion and added all of these things to RLH bag. I should be good to go if my E & E route is 8 feet in distance ; )

 
#21 ·
EDIT: Was on the train when trying to reply as it pulled into station, so I'm updated the reply.

I have not had E&E training, but for what it's worth I attempted to further streamline your setup to what I would use in a run like hell situation. Bottom line is I'm not running like hell with two bad knees so I would just stick with my EDC, sitting around 10lbs.

Below highlighted in red what I would drop or put an alternative next to the item. Mostly getting rid of what I think are redundant items, you are on the run, literally, so redundancy is less important.

FIRE:
(1) Bic lighter (1) with 50 feet TEX 90 Nylon thread 15 lb test
5 zip ties


TOOLS:
Silcock key
(4) Zipties
24 tph hacksaw blade
Handcuff key
Cold Steel folding knife
Photon light (blue on pack sling))
Nitecore Headlamp (on sling for quickest access and no room inside)
(8) AA batteries
(10') Duct tape (wrapped around saw blade as a handle)
(5) Razors
Paracord
(20') Snarewire
Cash and coins
Lock picks (not pictured - need to choose the most valuable) I don't know how to use them
Gerber multi-toolbiner
P51 cane P38, on order) - FRED - Australian Army Can Opener
Signal mirror (on order)

MED:
Kerchief
(2) Hexmine tabs - Is this supposed to be hexamine? What's the medical application for these?
(3) Neosporin packs (hiding under mini HALOS)
(3) HALO-seal style bandaids
(3) Alcohol wipes - I saw what looked like a small hand sanitizer bottle, empty that and fill it with povidone iodine which can also be used to purify water, 4 drops per liter
(4) Excedrin migraine (w/ caffeine)
(4) "Go" pills
Celox gauze (may add granule pack)
Israeli bandage
Emergency blanket
(6) Wet wipes
(I left out the HALO, tournequet, and other MASCAS stuff. If I have to run, and I'm shot, I'm probably dead anyhow. Not that it isn't in my trunk, just not in this pack) - Would keep a CAT in the kit

WATER/FOOD:
Datrex bars
Chlor-Floc tabs
Collapsible water bottle

NAV:
Space pen (to be purchased - using tactical pen for now, but doesn't write as well)
Mini Compass (to be purchased)
Jess waterproof pad

OTHER:
Gloves
Watch hat
 
#22 ·
Comments below:

EDIT: Was on the train when trying to reply as it pulled into station, so I'm updated the reply.

I have not had E&E training, but for what it's worth I attempted to further streamline your setup to what I would use in a run like hell situation. Bottom line is I'm not running like hell with two bad knees so I would just stick with my EDC, sitting around 10lbs.

Below highlighted in red what I would drop or put an alternative next to the item. Mostly getting rid of what I think are redundant items, you are on the run, literally, so redundancy is less important.

FIRE:
(1) Bic lighter (1) with 50 feet TEX 90 Nylon thread 15 lb test
5 zip ties
[zipties below]

TOOLS:
Silcock key [About the last thing I would ditch - it opens commercial water spigots on buildings]
(4) Zipties
24 tph hacksaw blade
Handcuff key
Cold Steel folding knife [Backup knife to my Benchmade]
Photon light (blue on pack sling)) [Weighs nothing and blue is best for retaining night vision, though may switch to red]
Nitecore Headlamp (on sling for quickest access and no room inside)
(8) AA batteries [Flashlights chew batteries - would prefer to have spares]
(10') Duct tape (wrapped around saw blade as a handle)
(5) Razors [Weight is about 15g and takes up no space]
Paracord
(20') Snarewire [Not thinking so much as building a snare, more useful as a garotte or for rigging a trap or alarm]
Cash and coins
Lock picks (not pictured - need to choose the most valuable) I don't know how to use them
Gerber multi-toolbiner
P51 cane P38, on order) - FRED - Australian Army Can Opener [No experience with them. Going with tried and tested]
Signal mirror (on order)

MED:
Kerchief
(2) Hexmine tabs - Is this supposed to be hexamine? What's the medical application for these? [Yes, Hexamine - should be in fire section]
(3) Neosporin packs (hiding under mini HALOS) [Weight is negligible - like to have to prevent infection on a cut]
(3) HALO-seal style bandaids [No way - these things are amazing and blows away any Band-Aid]
(3) Alcohol wipes - I saw what looked like a small hand sanitizer bottle, empty that and fill it with povidone iodine which can also be used to purify water, 4 drops per liter [Good idea. I have Chlor-Flouc tabs which do the same thing. I prefer the taste of chlorine to iodine though]
(4) Excedrin migraine (w/ caffeine)
(4) "Go" pills
Celox gauze (may add granule pack)
Israeli bandage
Emergency blanket
(6) Wet wipes [Do you have a preferred alternative for butt wiping?]
(I left out the HALO, tournequet, and other MASCAS stuff. If I have to run, and I'm shot, I'm probably dead anyhow. Not that it isn't in my trunk, just not in this pack) - Would keep a CAT in the kit [I have a SOFTT-W on my GHB, which would be with me under most circumstances. I also have 2 more in my trauma kit. Again, my thinking if I am on the run and need a tourniquet, the game is probably over. But, I will think about putting one on the sling.]

WATER/FOOD:
Datrex bars
Chlor-Floc tabs
Collapsible water bottle

NAV:
Space pen (to be purchased - using tactical pen for now, but doesn't write as well)
Mini Compass (to be purchased)
Jess waterproof pad

OTHER:
Gloves
Watch hat
Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Here's what I always have on me, without carrying any kind of bag:

- Concealed handgun & spare magazine
- Folding knife (model varies, but usually a SAK Hiker model)
- A Wallet Ninja tool in my wallet
- A 2xAAA flashlight clipped to my pants pocket
- A Schrade SCPEN4BK pen/firestarter/whistle also clipped in my pocket
- A TIHK handcuff key, a small ceramic razor blade and Micro Escape Tool (small saw/shim), all taped to the bottom side of my watch
- A set of micro lock picks in my wallet
- ASP Key Defender pepper spray
- Dog tags with medical info & ACME TORNADO 636 whistle around my neck

Of course I have a full GHB & med kit in my car, but I've found that always carrying a bag around was to inconvenient. If I'm traveling for work I have a small GBH (Get Back to the Hotel) stash in my laptop bag, and a larger GHB in my hotel room.
 
#28 ·
For my E&E bag, I graduated from the SpecOps ultimate butt pack to the Kifaru E&E pack. The Kifaru pack can be carried as a regular pack and docked and locked to my Kifaru Navigator pack. Which is very handy! I've added 3 pouches to the E&E pack. 1 for my water filter, 1 for a nalgene bottle with SnoPeak solo Ti cook kit and the third is a sustenance bag which gives me 10 days of rations.
My GHB is a Maxpedition shoulder bag. I'm not crazy about shoulder bags because they do tend to flop around while you are climbing over stuff.
 
#29 ·
Ghost,
You've gotten a lot of good ideas, but there is a lot of information missing that would help us *really* help you nail things down.

- How far is your trip home? Worst-case. Average walking speed is 10 miles per day, and that gets cut down in a city, especially when you're trying to E&E.
- Do you have any bodies of water to cross? Can't assume bridges will be there or passable.
- What section of the country are you in? NE, SE, NW, SW, center? This will help us with general weather and environment needs.
- What's your terrain going to be like? Flat, gentle hills, or San Francisco hell?
- Are you planning on having any caches in place on the route home?
- What is your general physical condition?
- Do you have any special needs such as glasses, daily medications, asthma that crops up when you're stressed, etc?
- What is your skill level with survival tasks such as rigging up a shelter, building a fire, staying warm without a fire, etc? (Your idea that breaking into a vehicle or building for shelter is a sure-fire way to get yourself trapped, shanked, and dead.)

These sound like questions for a full GHB (and they are), but they'll also apply to your DNR (drop 'n run) bag, because regardless of whether you're contentedly trotting along in no hurry or if you're running for your life, these factors STILL apply.
 
#32 ·
Ghost,
You've gotten a lot of good ideas, but there is a lot of information missing that would help us *really* help you nail things down.

- How far is your trip home? Worst-case. Average walking speed is 10 miles per day, and that gets cut down in a city, especially when you're trying to E&E. Nowadays, my office is my house, but I could be 30 miles from home. I've covered 17 miles in a day over rough terrain with a 55 lb pack. Painful but doable. Even if 10 miles a day is possible traveling under E&E conditions, all I need is water and warmth.
- Do you have any bodies of water to cross? Can't assume bridges will be there or passable. Yeah, the Potomac river. Don't think I could swim it, but there are multiple bridges and plenty of boats to potentially hotwire if needed.
- What section of the country are you in? NE, SE, NW, SW, center? This will help us with general weather and environment needs. Northern VA, 20 miles south of DC
- What's your terrain going to be like? Flat, gentle hills, or San Francisco hell? Gentle hills, heavy suburban
- Are you planning on having any caches in place on the route home? No caches as I have no idea where I'll be when SHTF
- What is your general physical condition? 5'10, 185 lbs, semi-athletic. Can run a mile in 5 minutes, but I hate it. Much rather walk.
- Do you have any special needs such as glasses, daily medications, asthma that crops up when you're stressed, etc? Nothing that would affect escape, other than not being able to run for long distances flat out - effects of smoking, but that is being addressed as we speak
- What is your skill level with survival tasks such as rigging up a shelter, building a fire, staying warm without a fire, etc? (Your idea that breaking into a vehicle or building for shelter is a sure-fire way to get yourself trapped, shanked, and dead.) Intermediate skills at camping/backpacking, can build a fire as long as I have ignition and fuel; smart enough to know ways to stay warm - leaf piles, newspaper, wind shelter, storage rooms, dumpsters, etc.

These sound like questions for a full GHB (and they are), but they'll also apply to your DNR (drop 'n run) bag, because regardless of whether you're contentedly trotting along in no hurry or if you're running for your life, these factors STILL apply.
Appreciate the discussion. SOunds like the topic hasn't been beat to death. Everyone's AO is different. Mine is built around the Washington, D.C. AO.
 
#30 ·
Imho e&e gear is to be carried on your person and is typically discreet and light.

Being sucessful is dependent on the failure of those detaining you, a well trained and competent person will effectively render your attempts null and void. Remember the further you are removed from point of original detention the harder e&e gets.

Having spent time in some of the world's more festive places I can tell you less is more and situational awareness is the most important thing you can carry.

Overseas I do wear a plain good quality leather money belt. The zipper is on the interior and hidden besides the obvious cash a number of other items will fit including picks from companies like sparrows (good quality) kevlar cord, ceramic blade etc. Belts will often be left on during the initial detainment but removed at a jail facility. Wallets are a good place store items as well but are often removed or stolen is less friendly countries before you have chance to access them. (and if your detainer finds e&e tools in it his suspicion will be raised and a more thorough investigation will follow) additionally companies such as unique titanium are good place to look as they design products for end users that are effective based on real world use. (ie hidden cuff keys inside coins zippers etc)
 
#34 ·
Tourniquet - get a good one and practice with it

MASCAS Supplies - Seriously, go to YouTube and look for TC3 (Tactical Combat Casualty Care) videos. The Celox is the key stop the bleeding. Celox granules are also another good alternative. Use the MARCH system - Massive hemorrhage, Airway, Respiration, Circulation, Hypothermia. In reality, the first and last are about all you can do on yourself. May want to consider HALO-type seals in a complete kit, but IMO, if you have an abdominal puncture in an E&E situation, you are gonna be outta the game.

Batteries - Yes, I like 123s and 18650s. Not the easiest ones to score in a pinch. That's why I am a firm believer in AA batts for all lights. And then buy tons of them. In packs, get carriers for them so they do not make contact and short.

Trauma shears: Knives can work. Good way to stab yourself or others. A good set of black shears are 13.00 on Amazon.
 
#37 ·
Tourniquet - get a good one and practice with it

MASCAS Supplies - Seriously, go to YouTube and look for TC3 (Tactical Combat Casualty Care) videos. The Celox is the key stop the bleeding. Celox granules are also another good alternative. Use the MARCH system - Massive hemorrhage, Airway, Respiration, Circulation, Hypothermia. In reality, the first and last are about all you can do on yourself. May want to consider HALO-type seals in a complete kit, but IMO, if you have an abdominal puncture in an E&E situation, you are gonna be outta the game.
Nice system I'll work this out!

Batteries - Yes, I like 123s and 18650s. Not the easiest ones to score in a pinch. That's why I am a firm believer in AA batts for all lights. And then buy tons of them. In packs, get carriers for them so they do not make contact and short.
Flashlights have come a long way and these new Nitecores really fit my bill when going for the AA batteries. Their output and the options available are much better nowadays than 3 years ago
EA11 for in the GHB
EA41 for in the BOB


Trauma shears: Knives can work. Good way to stab yourself or others. A good set of black shears are 13.00 on Amazon.
Yeah I'll probably get a pair :D:
These are just way to cool
http://www.storacell.net/SlimLine-AA_c_12.html
 
#36 ·
You sound like you're in really good physical shape, and that helps a lot as long as you don't try to push it. If you do, you'll lose all the previous time gained trying to recover the second day or going slower because of it.

Egads, the Potomac. Comparable to swimming in a disease-infected sewer. You've got your tetanus shot up to date, right? :) There *are* lots of bridges there, but in any sort of homegrown cell terrorist attack, all of the ones leading in/out of DC would probably all be blown by the bad guys to keep the panic inside DC as high as possible, or closed by DC police to keep the WH as safe as possible.

Your answer begs the question: do you know how to hotwire a boat? (Something to learn asap if you don't.) Either way, just-in-case, I'd look into getting a dry bag for your gear and clothes. You can fold it up and tie it to the outside of your "RLH" bag with some shock cord or bankline. Even if you find a rowboat, or end up caching an inflatable one (they're really inexpensive these days) it'll help keep stuff dry.
Keep in mind that if you're E&E, boat motors are really loud and attract attention.
With a dry bag full of air to help you stay afloat, you could probably launch off at Georgetown Waterfront Park and kick out real good, the current would take you right over to Teddy island, and then you could walk across it and take the foot bridge the rest of the way over into VA. (If you're in DC a lot, I'd really recommend looking into burying a small essentials-only cache on the island.)

The good thing about that area is that the weather doesn't get *too* cold and very little snow, so your emergency blanket and basic lighters will do the job IF they don't get wet or too cold (I know it does get icy there). Wrapping your lighters in zip-locs to keep them dry would be a good idea. Keeping one in your pants pocket or shirt pocket would be good, too (to keep it warm). With those plus your knowledge on basic debris shelters (or using debris to stuff your clothes) you can stay toasty. Slip a business-card size fresnel lens into your wallet for backup fire starting any time there's sunlight.

Your real environmental danger is going to be the heat index in the summer and staying cool and hydrated.
I'm in Hampton Roads. It's been a couple decades since I hung out in the Falls Church area on a regular basis. I don't remember if that area gets the humidity that we do, but our heat index can be lethal. Whatever you do when you're paring down or rearranging your bag, don't get rid of that silcock key. You'll be going through water like a sieve and with the area you're going through, it'll be a lifesaver. I'd recommend that you find a place to put some gatorade or powerade powder packets. You're going to need those electrolytes, because you'll be sweating liters of water.

Ditch the Datrex bars. They're very heavy and take up a lot of space in that little pack, and you won't need them for a 2-3 day walk. (Remember you can go three weeks without food.) Replace with jerky for lightweight protein and some hard candy or dried fruit for sugar if you feel you'll *really* need food, and the gatorade/powerade packets. Personally I'd forget the idea of food all together and maybe carry a pack of gum for when I get hungry - it's an urban area and you've got a P51, finding a can of food even after extensive rioting isn't going to be difficult.

I'd also ditch the Chlor-Floc tablets and replace with a mini Sawyer water filter. With it, you won't need the tabs, can drink straight from a water source with no waiting, and can use it and its included tube to filter water straight into your collapsible bag.

Unless you're planning on using it to look around corners, ditch the signaling mirror. This is a run like hell bag, not a "hey Mr. Plane, look, I'm down here" bag. :) Even if you are planning on looking around corners with it, a dentist's mirror will work much better in an urban environment and will keep you from attracting attention and getting your hand shot off.

Why the snare wire? You don't need to try to catch rabbits and squirrels on a 3-day walk through a mostly urban area. If it's to set up a warning perimeter with cans while you're sleeping, fishing line will work just as well, take up less space (can be wrapped around something else without getting kinked), and weigh less.

I'd lose the hacksaw blade and replace with heavy-duty wire cutters. If you need to cut branches for fire, you can do that with your Cold Steel folder and careful batoning. Sawing through a lock or a wire fence is going to take too long and be too noisy. You've got your lockpicks to get through a lock, get wire cutters to get through a fence.

Put in an extra pair of socks. Seriously. (Use the space the datrex bars used to take up for that.) No matter whether it's hot or cold, your feet will be sweating and you'll need to change into a dry pair of socks to keep from getting blisters and foot rot.

I really don't think you'll need the pen and pad. With frequent review of maps of the area and your compass, you should be good. (Plus you're going to be passing convenience stores on nearly every corner that have local area maps.) It's not like you're going 500 miles. If you really feel you'll need to write something down, get a fine-line waterproof sharpie instead of that pen and use your forearms to write on.

Lose the paracord. You don't have a tarp to string up and you're not going to be rapelling. If you want cordage, replace the paracord with an equal length of #36 tarred bankline. Lighter and less space.

Why the cash/coins? You've already got this in your wallet/pants pocket. If you've had your wallet taken off of you, you're not going to have your RLH bag, either.

Trade both the wet wipes and the alcohol wipes for Benzalkonium BZK First Aid Wipes. Dual-purpose, antiseptic, and in the case of a bio/chem attack, will kill stuff on you that alcohol and wet wipes won't.

I'd find a way to add a monocular. One with night vision if you can afford it (they run $150-$200 these days.) Being able to see threats ahead of you in an urban area is going to save your life. (Like looking at the dark areas under an overpass.)

In the summer, switch out your watch hat for a boonie hat. You'll need the shade, and it folds up just as well.

Okay, truth time. You're within 50 miles of DC, Ghost.
You NEED potassium iodide tablets to protect from radiation, because DC is target #1 no matter what the scenario. You NEED a few good filtration masks for chem/bio attacks. (3M 8000 Particle Respirator N95 are inexpensive on amazon.) The tablets take up almost no space (especially in the bubble pack form), and if you can fit one mask, you can fit five because they nest inside of each other. I'd also recommend getting a little keychain Rad meter to hang off of your pack or keys.

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you. I sure wouldn't want to be that close to DC, heck I hate being *this* close to DC and Norfolk. Have you considered moving? :)
 
#40 ·
Awesome response - great thoughts! Comments below:

You sound like you're in really good physical shape, and that helps a lot as long as you don't try to push it. If you do, you'll lose all the previous time gained trying to recover the second day or going slower because of it.

I wouldn't say awesome, but better than most 47 year olds.

Egads, the Potomac. Comparable to swimming in a disease-infected sewer. You've got your tetanus shot up to date, right? :) There *are* lots of bridges there, but in any sort of homegrown cell terrorist attack, all of the ones leading in/out of DC would probably all be blown by the bad guys to keep the panic inside DC as high as possible, or closed by DC police to keep the WH as safe as possible.

Blowing up a bridge so that it is impassable by foot is a little harder than it sounds.

Your answer begs the question: do you know how to hotwire a boat? (Something to learn asap if you don't.) Either way, just-in-case, I'd look into getting a dry bag for your gear and clothes. You can fold it up and tie it to the outside of your "RLH" bag with some shock cord or bankline. Even if you find a rowboat, or end up caching an inflatable one (they're really inexpensive these days) it'll help keep stuff dry.
Keep in mind that if you're E&E, boat motors are really loud and attract attention.

Hotwiring a boat is easier than a car. Less anti theft mechanisms built in. But yes, stealing a canoe or rowboat would be far easier. And I already have a drysack inside my backpack (GHB). Never heard of bankline - will look into it


With a dry bag full of air to help you stay afloat, you could probably launch off at Georgetown Waterfront Park and kick out real good, the current would take you right over to Teddy island, and then you could walk across it and take the foot bridge the rest of the way over into VA. (If you're in DC a lot, I'd really recommend looking into burying a small essentials-only cache on the island.)

Thinking along those lines, snagging a life preserver would probably be pretty simple and that would get me across the water far more easily. And burying a cache on Teddy island is a great idea.

The good thing about that area is that the weather doesn't get *too* cold and very little snow, so your emergency blanket and basic lighters will do the job IF they don't get wet or too cold (I know it does get icy there). Wrapping your lighters in zip-locs to keep them dry would be a good idea. Keeping one in your pants pocket or shirt pocket would be good, too (to keep it warm). With those plus your knowledge on basic debris shelters (or using debris to stuff your clothes) you can stay toasty. Slip a business-card size fresnel lens into your wallet for backup fire starting any time there's sunlight.

I like the idea of a pocket fresnel lens. I've already vacuum sealed the lighters.

Your real environmental danger is going to be the heat index in the summer and staying cool and hydrated.
I'm in Hampton Roads. It's been a couple decades since I hung out in the Falls Church area on a regular basis. I don't remember if that area gets the humidity that we do, but our heat index can be lethal. Whatever you do when you're paring down or rearranging your bag, don't get rid of that silcock key. You'll be going through water like a sieve and with the area you're going through, it'll be a lifesaver. I'd recommend that you find a place to put some gatorade or powerade powder packets. You're going to need those electrolytes, because you'll be sweating liters of water.

I have a Sawyer mini in my GHB. If I ditch the Datrex, I'll have room for it. I'll just move the Datre to the GHB. And adding electrolyte tabs.


Ditch the Datrex bars. They're very heavy and take up a lot of space in that little pack, and you won't need them for a 2-3 day walk. (Remember you can go three weeks without food.) Replace with jerky for lightweight protein and some hard candy or dried fruit for sugar if you feel you'll *really* need food, and the gatorade/powerade packets. Personally I'd forget the idea of food all together and maybe carry a pack of gum for when I get hungry - it's an urban area and you've got a P51, finding a can of food even after extensive rioting isn't going to be difficult.

I'd also ditch the Chlor-Floc tablets and replace with a mini Sawyer water filter. With it, you won't need the tabs, can drink straight from a water source with no waiting, and can use it and its included tube to filter water straight into your collapsible bag.

Unless you're planning on using it to look around corners, ditch the signaling mirror. This is a run like hell bag, not a "hey Mr. Plane, look, I'm down here" bag. :) Even if you are planning on looking around corners with it, a dentist's mirror will work much better in an urban environment and will keep you from attracting attention and getting your hand shot off.

Yeah, I haven't added the signal mirror yet. Wasn't entirely sure of its benefit in my likely E&E scenario. Good thoughts.

Why the snare wire? You don't need to try to catch rabbits and squirrels on a 3-day walk through a mostly urban area. If it's to set up a warning perimeter with cans while you're sleeping, fishing line will work just as well, take up less space (can be wrapped around something else without getting kinked), and weigh less.

I was planning on the wire for traps or alarms. I already have it. Maybe I'll get some fishing line and wrap it around the other lighter.

I'd lose the hacksaw blade and replace with heavy-duty wire cutters. If you need to cut branches for fire, you can do that with your Cold Steel folder and careful batoning. Sawing through a lock or a wire fence is going to take too long and be too noisy. You've got your lockpicks to get through a lock, get wire cutters to get through a fence.

Love the idea about buying a pair of fence cutters. If I ditch the Datrex, I'll have room. But keeeping the hacksaw. Can't get through a padlock with fence cutters. Not 100% proficient with lockpicks yet.

Put in an extra pair of socks. Seriously. (Use the space the datrex bars used to take up for that.) No matter whether it's hot or cold, your feet will be sweating and you'll need to change into a dry pair of socks to keep from getting blisters and foot rot.

I really don't think you'll need the pen and pad. With frequent review of maps of the area and your compass, you should be good. (Plus you're going to be passing convenience stores on nearly every corner that have local area maps.) It's not like you're going 500 miles. If you really feel you'll need to write something down, get a fine-line waterproof sharpie instead of that pen and use your forearms to write on.

Again, good thoughts. I think you could drop me within 30 miles of my house and I could figure out how to get home. Have a sharpie in the GHB.

Lose the paracord. You don't have a tarp to string up and you're not going to be rapelling. If you want cordage, replace the paracord with an equal length of #36 tarred bankline. Lighter and less space.

Again, looking into bankline.

Why the cash/coins? You've already got this in your wallet/pants pocket. If you've had your wallet taken off of you, you're not going to have your RLH bag, either.

Cash is king. Not gonna talke me out of this one. I probably have about 500.00 on me at any given time. It's served me well to get me out of lesser situations.

Trade both the wet wipes and the alcohol wipes for Benzalkonium BZK First Aid Wipes. Dual-purpose, antiseptic, and in the case of a bio/chem attack, will kill stuff on you that alcohol and wet wipes won't.

Good idea. I'll swap out from my med kit. Pretty sure I have them around here somewhere.

I'd find a way to add a monocular. One with night vision if you can afford it (they run $150-$200 these days.) Being able to see threats ahead of you in an urban area is going to save your life. (Like looking at the dark areas under an overpass.)

I have a cheap Tasco that is OK. Not in a kit. A thermal monoc would be nice - will put on the wish list.

In the summer, switch out your watch hat for a boonie hat. You'll need the shade, and it folds up just as well.

I always have a ball cap in the car somewhere.

Okay, truth time. You're within 50 miles of DC, Ghost.
You NEED potassium iodide tablets to protect from radiation, because DC is target #1 no matter what the scenario. You NEED a few good filtration masks for chem/bio attacks. (3M 8000 Particle Respirator N95 are inexpensive on amazon.) The tablets take up almost no space (especially in the bubble pack form), and if you can fit one mask, you can fit five because they nest inside of each other. I'd also recommend getting a little keychain Rad meter to hang off of your pack or keys.

I've got a neoprene mask with particulate filter and N95 I used in Afghanistan. Probably a good idea to add it into the RLH bag. And you are right about the PotIo tabs. Adding. The keychain rad meters are pricey, but I think you are mosst likely correct that it is worth adding.

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you. I sure wouldn't want to be that close to DC, heck I hate being *this* close to DC and Norfolk. Have you considered moving? :)
Thanks so much for the solid advice. It's good to have the input of someone who knows the area. Yeah, I've thought of moving, but this is where the jobs are and the house and family are. I have to endure about 10-12 more years here.
 
#41 ·
Update:

  • Lost the Datrex (It's in the GHB)
  • Added a SOFTT-W tourney
  • Added a HALO seal
  • Ordered Iosat
  • Removed water bottle, added Sawyer filter with bottle (left the syringe out - no room)
  • Added iodine wipes (no BZK on hand)
  • Ordered a 3-pack of wallet-sized Fresnel lenses

Still need to:

  • Buy fence cutters and figure out where the heck to put them - pouch on sling?
  • Buy a Nukalert
  • Add an NPA
  • Swap out Celox gauze for granules to save on space.
  • Buy Nuun electrolyte tabs
  • Swap out glove liners for another set of Mechanix gloves
  • Add a patch that says "GFY" so I can offend everyone equally

Thanks for the input. I feel that my RLH bag is really dialed in for my AO. Now just need to figure out how to explain a 120.00 Nukalert purchase to my wife. Suggestions welcome.
 
#42 ·
I just don't get it . . . .
In virtually every State, lock picks will fall somewhere under the heading of
Possession of Burglary Tools.
And it's a REALLY good way to experience a true "survival" situation. It's called JAIL.
And if, IF you make it out of the gang controlled Detention facilities of in every single City & State, you'll still have a Court date & possibly a criminal record.
Is it REALLY worth the risk????
 
#47 ·
Lock picks are not illegal in the US and would not have any legal significance or consequences unless you were caught actually committing burglary. They are just bits of metal. We still have some freedoms. Hell, a hacksaw or a screwdriver or a thousand other things could be used to commit burglary.

Edit: except for the 4 states listed below.