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Most people like red dots. We just don't like having to worry about batteries. And the red dots that do really good with batteries aren't the cheap ones, which is also what most folks prefer, for better or worse.

My eyes are also an issue. Astigmatism makes red dots into red blurs, which isn't the best thing for accuracy. Of course, that also applies to the irons, despite me loving a peep sight above all else...so scopes are the answer for me.:(
 

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Most people like red dots. We just don't like having to worry about batteries. And the red dots that do really good with batteries aren't the cheap ones, which is also what most folks prefer, for better or worse.

My eyes are also an issue. Astigmatism makes red dots into red blurs, which isn't the best thing for accuracy. Of course, that also applies to the irons, despite me loving a peep sight above all else...so scopes are the answer for me.:(
Primary Arms has Prism red dots with etched reticle, supposedly cures both issues(Astigmatism/Batteries), for rifles anyway.
 

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Red dots are the best thing to happen to guns in the last 20 years. Even the cheapest red dot is better than irons. Just as this guy says, red dots don’t remove the need for fundamental skill, they just remove extra difficulty.
 

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I can see the red dots becoming the iron sights of the day, and they are headed that way, if not already there.

Very much like automatic transmissions are now the "standard", and not a manual transmission.

I grew up shooting military rifles with iron sights, and of both types. Learned to shoot them and spent a lot of time shooting with them. A "good" set of iron sights is pretty hard to beat. You do need to know and understand their use to get the most out of them though. Just like anything else.

Scopes were later in life, and I still really dont like scopes a whole lot. I see their positive points on certain, specific type rifles, but for a general use rifle, no, not really.

Red dots on the other hand, were something I quickly saw the value in, and especially when the moved from the OEG type, to the powered type we have today.


No matter what you choose to start with, you still have to learn "the basics", and you have to put the time and effort in to be proficient with what you have, and that simply takes hard work.

As he mentioned in the video, the sighting system is just the sighting system, you still need to learn how to properly shoot, and what it takes to do so.

Shooting, and no matter what it is youre shooting with, is a perishable skill. Im not saying you cant still shoot "OK" after not shooting for a long time, and will forget everything you learned, but your skills will decay, and especially the longer you let things go.

This isnt COD, it takes your whole body to shoot, and you need to keep yourself in reasonable shape, and certain muscle groups in tone, to continue to keep your skills up. As the years go by, and you let things slip, everything slips. The longer you can stay in shape, the better off your going to be all around, and your shooting is going to benefit.

Like anything else, you get out of this what you put in it, and in time and gear. Time and effort will get you farther than trying to buy your skills with just gear. In other words, if you cant shoot, the gear really isnt likely to help.

You used to see guys come to matches with all the high dollar guns and other cool stuff, and yet some little old guy, shooting with a bolt gun in street clothes, used to wax their asses. Gear doesnt equate to skills.
 

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In other words, if you cant shoot, the gear really isnt likely to help.
An adage as old as time, and a true one.

Of course, on the other hand, deliberately using bad or obsolete gear isn't going to make a bad shooter better either, while using good gear can make a good shooter a better shooter.

I've always liked scopes and then later red dots because they make you target focused instead of sight focused. The gun just becomes something in your hands, your attention and focus is on the target and I just find that incredibly useful no matter what kind of shooting I'm doing.

Another soap box of mine is to shoot reactive targets of some kind. (Which includes paper but only at short ranges) The analogy I like to use is trying to learn to shoot well by shooting paper is like trying to learn to hit a baseball in a blacked out stadium.

Someone throws ten balls at you one after another, you hit them out into the dark, then they turn on the lights and you go see where you balls landed and try to figure out how to improve your technique based on where they landed.

You know that some of your swings felt different than others but you don't know how that translated to the flight of the ball, or even which hit landed in which spot.

It doesn't matter what kind of reactive target, just something that gives you immediate feedback so you can program your brain and muscles to know the difference in how a bad shot feels different than a good one. Paper works but only if your close enough to actually see the holes your punching as you make them. Further out you need plates, or clays, old shotgun shells, cans, anything you can see or hear move when you hit it.
 

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Another soap box of mine is to shoot reactive targets of some kind. (Which includes paper but only at short ranges) The analogy I like to use is trying to learn to shoot well by shooting paper is like trying to learn to hit a baseball in a blacked out stadium.

Someone throws ten balls at you one after another, you hit them out into the dark, then they turn on the lights and you go see where you balls landed and try to figure out how to improve your technique based on where they landed.

You know that some of your swings felt different than others but you don't know how that translated to the flight of the ball, or even which hit landed in which spot.

It doesn't matter what kind of reactive target, just something that gives you immediate feedback so you can program your brain and muscles to know the difference in how a bad shot feels different than a good one. Paper works but only if your close enough to actually see the holes your punching as you make them. Further out you need plates, or clays, old shotgun shells, cans, anything you can see or hear move when you hit it.
I understand what youre saying, but Im not sure you understand the importance of "precision" shooting on paper.

With reactive targets, you do get instant feedback, and thats cool, and nothing wrong with it. And if you miss, you should know why too.

Same goes with paper. I may not see the target react, but I have a real good idea where the round went.

Either way, youre calling the shot, and hit or miss, you should know it and why, when the shot breaks, and to the point of where on the target it hit when it did.

You often hear that shooting paper targets and practicing on a range isnt a true indicator of your skills. Funny thing is, every top marksman in the world, spends hours and hours of time honing their skills doing just that. And they can usually tell you, with pretty good precision too, exactly where that round went when it was let off.

Those guys making those phenomenal shots in faraway places, didnt learn to do that, pretty much on demand, from shooting chucks out back in the pasture or clays on a berm.

I agree, shooting a lot of different types of things helps you learn, and is important, and good practice, but you do learn more from some things than you do others.

Just replace the third of seven "P's" with "practice". :thumb:
 

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You often hear that shooting paper targets and practicing on a range isnt a true indicator of your skills. Funny thing is, every top marksman in the world, spends hours and hours of time honing their skills doing just that. And they can usually tell you, with pretty good precision too, exactly where that round went when it was let off.
Its the difference between studying, and taking a test. You can't learn something just by taking tests, but taking tests helps show you what you need to learn and wether its working or not.

And of course, the depends on what kind of shooting your doing. Long range precision shooting is a completely different thing that trying to get fast doubles on IPSC targets at 15 yards.
 

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I honestly believe instinct shooting is more important then 500yard shootings. My range out back is just over 100yards. I can hit a 12 in steel gong at any distance by looking over my rifle. Literally not even looking down the sights. Just pointing the rifle and quickly pulling the trigger. I can transition from 25yards to 100 without blinking a eye. It’s just the way I have practiced for years. Out past 300yards I’m not all that great.
 

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Its the difference between studying, and taking a test. You can't learn something just by taking tests, but taking tests helps show you what you need to learn and wether its working or not.

And of course, the depends on what kind of shooting your doing. Long range precision shooting is a completely different thing that trying to get fast doubles on IPSC targets at 15 yards.
Not really. It's all basically the same thing, just longer range precision on paper tends to be more boring, and an like work, and reactive targets are a bit more fun, and with instant gratification. It's all work and time spent in learning. There's really no difference in how you are shooting.

Regardless what you're shooting at, or how you're shooting, you should still know where each round went when the shot broke. Hit or miss and why. Every shot is a lesson and a test. Doesn't matter what you're shooting at. Paper just makes analyzing what went on, or wrong, a little easier.

Your sights will generally tell you that more precisely, while you're shooting, but in some cases, you don't need the sights to tell you at all either. At closer ranges, with rifle or pistol, and not using the sights, you should still have a good idea as to where the rounds are going as the gun goes off. You're just aiming the gun differently and with different cues.

Regardless how you shoot, and what you shoot at, you still need certain "basics", and the ability to hit what you're aiming at, no matter how that is, and on demand. It's generally a lot of constant practice too, if you hope to stay reasonably current.


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next dot i get, will be a Trijicon SRS. when my last 2 aimpoints die, like 3 others (switch goes bad., aimpoint will not take in for repair more than 1 generation back, period.) got 1 original comp M thats still alive, and 1 comp M2 thats still kicking, after I bought a junk one to rob the switch off of, what ive sunk in those dots, I could have bought 2 trijicons, and they run off AA, and not a 13$ batt i can only get in speciality shops..... I use trijicon iron sights as well. never had a issue, with em, had oone shoot loose on a H&K trijicon sent me a brand new set. no questions.
 

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next dot i get, will be a Trijicon SRS. when my last 2 aimpoints die, like 3 others (switch goes bad., aimpoint will not take in for repair more than 1 generation back, period.) got 1 original comp M thats still alive, and 1 comp M2 thats still kicking, after I bought a junk one to rob the switch off of, what ive sunk in those dots, I could have bought 2 trijicons, and they run off AA, and not a 13$ batt i can only get in speciality shops..... I use trijicon iron sights as well. never had a issue, with em, had oone shoot loose on a H&K trijicon sent me a brand new set. no questions.
Good to know on the failures of aim points.

We mostly run Holosun, with a few Vortex. Really like the Holosun circle dots, but just the dots are decent as well. No issues as of yet, thousands of rounds.

A few of the Holosuns are the solar version, nice feature as have had a battery die amidst a long range day, still function, just less so while under shade. Didn’t need to swap in a new battery to keep running. Nice feature.

Have them set to motion activate now, so long battery life. Another nice feature.

Those trijicons seem pretty darned nice, but not worthwhile for us & the number of guns running. Wouldn’t be economical, in our situation.

Vortex supposedly has a very good warranty/customer service, don’t know as haven’t had a need to send anything back. No idea on Holosuns warranty/service.

Palmetto State frequently has deals on Vortex dots, either as a bundle with something else of value, or solo. Recent deals have been very nicely priced. They’ve also recently started doing some decent deals on Holosuns, although not as attractively bundled/priced as Vortex dots.
 

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Aaron talks about the basics, fundamentals, and the difference of marksmanship. Do you agree? I've seen some here not liking red dots & only iron sights.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmKsd2lS04


https://www.sagedynamics.org/
I couldnt get your links to work, so can't comment either direction.

As far as general plunking or a range toy goes, either one will do the job , so it really boils down to a personal preference in the end.

As for a true " shtf all purpose rifle", that is to be relied upon under any conditions expected or unexpected.......good quality iron sights are of more importance imo.......and a big chunk of one's " training time" should be focused towards gaining proficiency by using them , building DOPE with any and all types of ammunition utilized, and keeping a respectable level of consistency while using them. ( All fundamentals apply here.)

In short.......A level of proficiency where one is capable of using them effectively as a stand alone means to deliver lead where it needs to go and at the required distances vs expected targets either stationary or while they are moving.

With that said, there is no reason one can't utilize more than one means to aim a rifle, shotgun, or carbine either. I have 4 different means for one rifle as an example. Long story short here.......iron sights are always one of the 4.....no matter what the second one is at any given time.

The other 3 = RDS with or without true cowitness, optics ( scopes), and thermal imaging weapon sights.

Pics below: 1st row ( 6 pics) show my primary all purpose rifles with iron sights and a scope that I have put years of evaluation time into.
2nd row ( 3 pics) : 1 = a 1022 with Nodak irons and RDS. Pic2 = The end result using rifle in pic with iron sights to hit that bunny at over 250 yards. Pic3 shows what you see when targeting hogs on a cloudy dark night at over 200 yards with TIWS.
Last pic is several dead pigs in a matter of seconds using the M14S and it's iron sights.

Note: If an optic of any type ( RDS, scope, NVS, or TIWS) of any brand/ make/ model cannot meet my requirements vs long term use, field tests, etc....on my 15 year and counting evaluation beater M14S, then it goes bye bye.

Edit: I currently have 4 M14 types that all share very similar iron sights, and all 4 have a second sighting system as well. M1A A1 = SWFA SS 10X, M14 S = Leopold VX hog, M14SA = RDS, and M25 = TIWS.
11B
 

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