The AR and young adults

6013 Views 19 Replies 13 Participants Last post by adam731432, Mar 28, 2008

kev

Discussion Starter · Mar 22, 2008

While on a recent firing session, my 11 year old daughter had problems pulling the charging handle back on the AR. Its difficult for her to pull the handle back and hold the AR fully loaded in the other hand.

She was trying to hold the rifle up close to her chest and charge the weapon - while that might be fine for tactical training, she lacked the upper body strength to do so. I told her to let gravity pull the rifle down, fully extend her right arm, then charge the weapon. This seemed to work the best.

In my head I was thinking of a comparison between the AK and the AR. It seems that the AK might be a better choice for a young adult as there is no charging handle on the AK. Just cam into magazine in place, pull the bolt back and let it rip.

The AK also has less buttons, bells and whistles to have to worry about.

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lilc

· #2 · Mar 23, 2008

5

AK: Child's Play?

kev said:
While on a recent firing session, my 11 year old daughter had problems pulling the charging handle back on the AR. Its difficult for her to pull the handle back and hold the AR fully loaded in the other hand...It seems that the AK might be a better choice for a young adult as there is no charging handle on the AK. Just cam into magazine in place, pull the bolt back and let it rip. The AK also has less button, bells and whistles to have to worry about.

I think your 11-year-old can handle an AK if these little guys can...

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Beaterar

· #3 · Mar 23, 2008

If you look at the very bottom picture of the two boys with under folders, it looks like they both has a spent shell closed in the weapon to display it is safe.

Kev the AK74 has very very little recoil, ammo is still cheap to ....HINT HINT

Dwind

· #4 · Mar 23, 2008

I agree- children have been using AKs almost as long as adults- they are so overly simplified inside- its actually not a bad starter rifle.

Army 21Z

· #5 · Mar 23, 2008

kev said:
While on a recent firing session, my 11 year old daughter had problems pulling the charging handle back on the AR. Its difficult for her to pull the handle back and hold the AR fully loaded in the other hand.

She was trying to hold the rifle up close to her chest and charge the weapon - while that might be fine for tactical training, she lacked the upper body strength to do so. I told her to let gravity pull the rifle down, fully extend her right arm, then charge the weapon. This seemed to work the best.

In my head I was thinking of a comparison between the AK and the AR. It seems that the AK might be a better choice for a young adult as there is no charging handle on the AK. Just cam into magazine in place, pull the bolt back and let it rip.

The AK also has less buttons, bells and whistles to have to worry about.

The AK may not have a charging handle "per se" but the bolt has to be cycled on both weapons regardless. The AK's "charging handle" just happens to be attached to the bolt itself. I would try an extended latch charging handle, it gives more grip area when racking it back. A big advantage with the AR is right handers can change mags and charge the weapon with the off hand. In order to do that with an AK you have to turn the ejection port up or reach over the top (awkward).

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15-M16Parts/UpperReceiverAccess.asp

lilc

· #6 · Mar 23, 2008

Army 21Z said:
...A big advantage with the AR is right handers can change mags and charge the weapon with the off hand. In order to do that with an AK you have to turn the ejection port up or reach over the top (awkward).

Actually, I'm right-handed and one of the preferred ways to run the bolt on the AK for RH shooters is simply to reach under the gun (behind the magazine) while it is shouldered and pointed down range and run it with the index finger of the support (left) hand. The AK mag catch is on the centerline and can be operated equally easily with either hand for both LH and RH shooters, Very simple and easy to do with the AK, especially if your support hand grip is at the receiver/mag well juncture, as is taught in the Russian military.

IMO the biggest obstacle to learning to shoot the AK is to attempt to run it like an AR; it is simply a different animal with its own strengths and ergonomics. M14s and M1 Garands have right-side charging handles, but very few American shooters consider this identical bolt handle placement inconvenient or detrimental on these platforms.

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Army 21Z

· #7 · Mar 23, 2008

lilc said:
Actually, I'm right-handed and one of the preferred ways to run the bolt on the AK for RH shooters is simply to reach under the gun (behind the magazine) while it is shouldered and pointed down range and run it with the index finger of the support (left) hand. The AK mag catch is on the centerline and can be operated equally easily with either hand for both LH and RH shooters, Very simple and easy to do with the AK, especially if your support hand grip is at the receiver/mag well juncture, as is taught in the Russian military.

If that's a preferred method I've never seen it in practice. That includes having trained with foreign armies who field all varieties of the AK. Having fired a lot of them that would seem awkward at best. Especially in the case of the OP's situation (a novice shooter). If reaching under works faster for you that's the important thing. Mag changes are no biggie, except for the extra step of hooking the front of the AK mag. It's much easier to change mags "blind" on a AR than a AK. That's important when you are still tracking targets.

The_Question

· #8 · Mar 23, 2008

so are you saying its easier for left-handers with AK's? excuse my ignorance if i'm wrong.

Army 21Z

· #9 · Mar 23, 2008

lilc said:
M14s and M1 Garands have right-side charging handles, but very few American shooters consider this identical bolt handle placement inconvenient or detrimental on these platforms.

That is a necessity more than ergonomics. The handle placement on most battle rifles corresponds with the ejection ports. The ejection ports are on the right so the majority of shooters (righties) don't have to contend with hot brass flying back in their face. Innovative weapons like the FN FAL and Steyr AUG fixed this problem, allowing the cocking handle to be placed on left side where it is most accessable for right handed firers.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/at...n-fal-tell-me-about-em-good-deal-img_2249.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/AUG_A1_508mm_04.jpg

Army 21Z

· #10 · Mar 23, 2008

The_Question said:
so are you saying its easier for left-handers with AK's? excuse my ignorance if i'm wrong.

Not really. The convenience of having the bolt handle on the right for lefties is far outweighed by having to contend with the brass flying back toward you. Most modern AR models have a built in brass deflector so it's not as big of a deal with them (but then the mag release would be on the wrong side

)

Khris

· #11 · Mar 24, 2008

Thats why all of us Lefties have to get a STAG arms (Lefty) model AR-15

The_Question

· #12 · Mar 24, 2008

dont they have things you can add to the receiver to make sure the brass flies forward and not back at you? since i'm looking at AK's isn't their something for that? I hate being left handed sometimes.

Dwind

· #13 · Mar 24, 2008

AKs just eject their brass about 500 yards to your right. You could almost take someone down with it lol.

ARCTICWOLF

· #14 · Mar 24, 2008

Im a lefty let me tell you it sucks to shoot a bolt action rifle. I find it not problem to shoot right handed semi autos though no matter if its a ak or an ar.

The_Question

· #15 · Mar 24, 2008

ARCTICWOLF said:
Im a lefty let me tell you it sucks to shoot a bolt action rifle. I find it not problem to shoot right handed semi autos though no matter if its a ak or an ar.

thats awesome to hear.

oh and arctic, check out Remington's new 2008 line, they got alot of nice left handed bolts in various calibers, i was very happy to see some southpaw love from them.

Reactions: 1

soldier506

· #16 · Mar 24, 2008

My Robinson arms XCR has the charging handle on the left side just like the FN FAL type rifles.

Jester

· #17 · Mar 27, 2008

Dwind said:
AKs just eject their brass about 500 yards to your right. You could almost take someone down with it lol.

Dwind is right. the AK will throw casings a country mile usually at a slight forward angle. should have any problems with them.

yonder

· #18 · Mar 27, 2008

I'm glad you started this thread.

My six year old daughter is showing the necessary maturity level and interest to where I'd like to start taking her shooting this spring and probably get her a rifle of her own.

I know she wouldn't be able to cycle the action on an AK yet. I hadn't thought about the ergonomics of the AR15 being difficult for her, yet that was the type of rifle I was thinking that I would build for her.

Maybe I'll bring the old Mossberg Chuckster that I learned on as a pup out of retirement.

fragout

· #19 · Mar 28, 2008

4

Here's some other ideas for rifles for young people just starting out in shooting.....

Ruger 10-22's are fun, and economical to shoot........ right or left handed. Lightweight, and compact with not much in the way of felt recoil either.

M1Carbines are fun for the whole family IMO.

11B

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adam731432

· #20 · Mar 28, 2008 (Edited)

kev said:
While on a recent firing session, my 11 year old daughter had problems pulling the charging handle back on the AR. Its difficult for her to pull the handle back and hold the AR fully loaded in the other hand.

She was trying to hold the rifle up close to her chest and charge the weapon - while that might be fine for tactical training, she lacked the upper body strength to do so. I told her to let gravity pull the rifle down, fully extend her right arm, then charge the weapon. This seemed to work the best.

In my head I was thinking of a comparison between the AK and the AR. It seems that the AK might be a better choice for a young adult as there is no charging handle on the AK. Just cam into magazine in place, pull the bolt back and let it rip.

The AK also has less buttons, bells and whistles to have to worry about.

You being a weaponry master such as myself probably already know this but she might want to try charging the gun with her dominant hand. She might be holding the gun in her right hand, pulling the charge handle back with her left(weak) hand. Like you said she is holding it to high up because she isn't tall enough to hold it down without the barrel sticking in the ground.

Also, as done with pistols, try holding the charge handle/slide stationary while pushing the gun away or down with your strong hand.

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