[kev]

Is it possible to live too far in the boonies? Yes is it. There comes a point where it is not feasible to live in a rural area, and find gainful employment. There also comes a point where high speed internet ends. Believe it or not, not even dial-up is not available in all areas.

Let’s call this line, “Living on the edge of modern civilization.”

I may live in the sticks, but there are some who live further in the boonies than I do. If I drive several miles past my home, there are some people barely have access to electricity, much less internet. Water is from a well, while sewage is handled with a septic tank.

For the people who live past the edge of modern civilization, it takes them around hour to drive to work. This means the round trip is almost two hours. That is at least 10 hours a day dedicated to work.

As much as someone would love to live without money, it just is not possible. We all have to pay taxes, especially property taxes. Do not pay your taxes, and the county takes your property. This means having a job and distance to the job must be figured into our survival plans.

Then there are the types of jobs available in the boonies. Typically, these are teachers, police, lawyers, CPA, nurse… etc. Regardless where someone goes, society will always need a nurse, teacher, police, someone to do their taxes (CPA)… etc. If someone is not a professional they will be working at the corner store.

Living in a rural area, I see people who did not apply themselves and are condemned to a life of poverty. The women usually do odd jobs here and there, work at a local restaurant, work at the local corner store, Lowes, Wal-mart, local hardware store, or fast food. Men usually do manual labor, car repair, lawn service, tree trimming, or whatever odd jobs they can find. At the corner store there may be signs on the door advertising for day labor.

Those who do not seek gainful employment are usually drawing social security disability for some mysterious ailment.

If people living in rural ares had access to higher education at an early age I am sure they would have led productive lives. Their despair is a reflection of how little higher education is valued in rural areas.

What brought this topic up? I was going through my YouTube subscription list and came across a video by Townsends. The video was about a diary from the mid-1700s.

I see parallels from the 1700s and modern day. The uncivilized people from the mid-1700s have been replaced with drug dealers of the 21st century. While Small Pox was the plague of the 1700s, illegal drugs are the plague of the 20th and 21st century.

Survivalist may think living in a rural area is an ideal situation. Unfortunately, living in a rural area presents its own problems. It seems that every time a heavy storm comes through the power goes off. I can drive to a local Dollar Store and not even have cell phone service.

If an educated survivalist with a degree wanted to move to the country, I would suggest they get ready for a culture shock. There are no malls, and rarely a movie theater. The sole movie theater here in Jasper, Texas closed several years ago. If my wife and I want to go to the movies it is at least an hour drive one way. This means going to the movies is an all day event.

Out here in the boonies, Amazon Prime is your friend. That is “if” you have Internet access.

I got tired of writing, so that is it for now.

 

[Aerindel]

huh...you follow Townsends too? They are one of my favorite non survivalist, survivalist channels. I've been watching them for years. Great channel.

But yes...finding that 'edge' is what I've spent my whole life doing, in just about every metric you can name.

If people living in rural ares had access to higher education at an early age I am sure they would have led productive lives. Their despair is a reflection of how little higher education is valued in rural areas.

But this....who is to say what a productive life is? Not everyone wants a degree to hang on the wall or a 9-5 job. Some feel perfectly productive cutting a load of firewood or fixing up their 20 year old car instead. Malls and movies? No power or cell service? Oh noes...what is a prepper to do without power or a cell phone?

You can keep them. Instead of maximizing production some would rather minimize consumption. Those uncivilized back woods people of the mid 1700's? Those are the kinds of people who built this country. I thought that diary was very telling example of the kind of repressive, elitist life those people sought to escape.

 

[kev]

huh...you follow Townsends too?

Oh yes, I love his videos.

The one in December where they were making antlers was cute.

 

[ImbriD]

That's a very biased point of view.

Some people are more than happy doing manual labor such as landscaper/lawn service etc. Our landscape guy for our place in the boonies takes his job very seriously, takes pride in his work and does it well. Doing so he provides a good living for his family.

You will find people that do not apply themselves in all areas of life be it in a city or the country and they're all doomed to poverty. It's not just the country.

Not everyone is cut out to be a professional and many do not want it. This country is built on blue collar jobs.

As for myself, I'm a software developer making a nice 6 figure income but working my way through college as a factory worker I certainly respect those that do not have higher education and work for a living. As for 10+ hours a day, that's norm for an IT worker.

And yes, I like their channel too.

 

[Aerindel]

Yep. One of the things I like about his channel is while he is an expert at the material he covers he presents it in a any easygoing manner and is not afraid to make fun of himself.

I also love that he isn't all lawyered up and has no problem showing recipes with raw eggs, unrefrigerated meat, etc. His egg video is one of my favorites. (and useful)

His channel has really been a big inspiration for me, not just for prepping but as lifestyle.

An outdoor steampunk/colonial/medieval kitchen was one of the big projects I started last summer, mostly out of envy of some of the townsends kitchens set up.

 

[bunkerbuster]

Our relatively defensible / sustainable BOL is off-grid, with roof space & supplies for 20 adults & a few children, 30 miles from utility company electricity. Also 30 miles of unplowed snow-bound road in winter. It can be done, but requires considerable planning, time, skill, implementation & investment.

We have every amenity at our BOL, we have at our home in town, the only exception is a land line phone & cell phone service. We do have 25KW hydropower, Internet, Satellite TV, Ham & CB comms.

Took 2+ decades to get it there.

 

[dmas]

My commute was often over an hour with no traffic and I really wasn't out in the boonies.

In Washington state at least urban areas subsidize the rural areas thru taxes. Even so services are better in the cities.

 

[SoJ_51]

Heartily Thirded, for Townsends!... One of my top Favs was the Mud / Thatch Oven build.. Awesome..

jd

 

[country_boy]

Just a couple of points-

The is a whole nother category of jobs in rural areas people -who telecommute or work over long distances- contractors- oil workers, pipeline welders. There is a couple 75 miles from me that commute to Alaska- she as a 14 on 14 off job and he has a summer job ( She is a GS-11 techical specialist, he is a heavy Eq mechanic- they have paid off a nice farm and home here- and want to add a house in AK next.) ditto there are multiple heavy equipment guys, and speciality contractors based on someone's farm who derive little of there income from the local economy. Also there are quite a few steel detailers, machinists, and small manufacturers that go unnoticed.

As to commuting an hour for a job- many residents of D.C. would love to reduce their commute to an hour.

Not familiar with TX, but here in AL and GA I'm not sure you can be more than an hour to the nearest JuCo and more than and hour and half to a 4 year degree. With online learning, you might only have to commute every other quarter. Now if you want a good engineering degree, you only have a couple of options- but living in the capital city isn't better than living in the least educated county in the state ( talking AL here)

There are crappy dead end places to live- but it's not synominous with rural, you just can't take a 10 minute bus like you can from some of the hellholds of Atlanta to Emory or GA Tech.

As far as the internet, you really need to be outside the range of 3/4G with fixed antennas before you really start facing expensive internet over satellite- and more and more people will face going wireless- 53% of the residents of Carbon Hill, AL will loose wired access as part of the AT&T TDM-IP trials. Both Trump and Obama have supported this. Internet no longer means just Cable Modem, FIOS, DSL or UVerse.

 

[whirlibird]

Being too far out can be lethal.
Medical care is slow in the best of times, but even a snowstorm can easily triple the time it takes for the ambulance to get to you.

For a while we lived some ten miles out.
The commute was bad, getting the kids back and forth to school events easily sucked massive amounts of gas and time.


Choose the distance carefully, according to your needs.

 

[KeyserSoSay]

I don’t see the analogy between 18th century backwoods poverty and the deliberate isolation of a modern day preparationist. As you point out in the OP, there are some lifestyle changes that will need to take place compared to the “city life”, but those are part of the design and without a doubt are part of a more fulfilled and joyful life. The OP post itself serves to disprove the thesis, in that Kev outlines many ways that he maintains a modern lifestyle while living in an isolated rural area.

The issue of livelihood is separate. If one was to move to the woods to homestead without having any viable plan to create or perpetuate an income (or be at a place in their life where they don’t need to), then they can’t really blame their rural environment for the financial circumstances. It’s actually more feasible to make a (modern workplace) living from home than it ever has been in human history. And it doesn’t take near the income to achieve prosperity when you’re not in the rat race trying to beat out the Joneses.

It’s also a fallacy that rural folks don’t have any skills that can provide them an income, it’s just that there is such a wide divide between the skills of modern urbanites and the more pragmatic skill set of rural folk, most with an urban background don’t recognize them as a valid trade. The fact that there are many unskilled, unmotivated, uneducated, unemployed people living in rural areas is more a sign of the times (and the socialist state of our nation) than it is a causal effect of their location, these folks can be found in no smaller proportion in urban areas, they just stay better out of view.

If the point is, “don’t move to the woods thinking it’s going to be Green Acres”, then I agree. But life without cell coverage or dollar stores registers as a positive for me. I’ve lived in every part of the bell curve from Houston TX (7million) to 18 months living deep in the Gila Wilderness, and I’ve spent every day of my adult life working towards to a life more resembling the later.

I think, like everything, it’s all about how prepared you are. I have a very isolated homestead in Northern NM, and we’ll be escaping there permanently in just a few years. Our closest post office is in another state, and the closest Walmart is another 75 miles beyond that. But we’ll arrive with a sizeable nest egg, a pension, a cabin built, much of our infrastructure in place, no debts, no mortgage, (a trust set up to pay our property taxes for 100years), and no sense that we will be missing ANYTHING going on outside of our canyon. My wife’s weekend side business (built specifically to provide an off-grid income source) had $65,000 in sales this year, and my silversmithing/metal-smithing is just one of the many skills I have that could support us anywhere, in any century. I don’t mean all of that as a boast or a brag, I just mean to describe a very intentional effort we’ve made (over decades) to prepare for a prosperous life off-grid and out of sight.

Sure, I might miss Netflix if our satellite internet can’t handle it (if I’m totally honest), but it’s amazing how quickly you fill that time with more productive and fulfilling activities and forget all about what you’re missing on HBO, especially when you can see every single star in the Milky Way.

 

[Late2Prep]

Didn't Mel Tappan die because the ambulance couldn't get to his place in the boonies in time?

 

[Aerindel]

You lose a lot of opportunities living in the city too.

One key difference I see between city and country is that everyone I know who lives in the country has lived in a city at some point in their lives and made the decision that they want or need to live in the country. I can't say the same for most of the city people.

As for the ambulance...well, like a lot services that are provided for you in a city that you have to provide for yourself in the country, I am the ambulance, not just for me but for my community.

And yes, the hospital is forty minutes away, but in twelve years I've never lost someone in route. Lots of folks who where dead when I arrived that I didn't bring back, and some that died later at the hospital, but none where alive when they got in my ambulance who left it dead.

 

[Camelfilter]

Didn't Mel Tappan die because the ambulance couldn't get to his place in the boonies in time?

When it's time, it's time.

That said, even "in the boonies", services provided today vs when he passed are markedly improved. ie life flight services with near on full state coverage, remote consultation for rural care etc etc.

 

[orangenomad]

Wow so if you have blue collar job you are doomed to an unproductive poor life. Just wow. This premise is wrong on so many levels.
Yes there are poor people in the boonies who do meth. Yes there are poor people in the city who do meth.
I like the internet and Netflix but if not having them makes you miserable or unproductive maybe your just not cut out to survive.

 

[mtnairkin]

So now cell phones and the easy access to a movie are survival necessities?

@ KeyserSoSay A well thought out and polite response.

 

[Sourdough]

Didn't Mel Tappan die because the ambulance couldn't get to his place in the boonies in time?

NO.......he died because after his leg injury, he abandoned his lifestyle, and became depressed, obese, inactive. That said, he was the originator of what we now call, survivalist theory.

 

[kev]

Just a couple of points-

The is a whole nother category of jobs in rural areas people -who telecommute or work over long distances- contractors- oil workers, pipeline welders.

I currently work from home.

Before that, I worked on a tugboat and worked 7 on and 7 off.

Before that, I worked as a computer tech for a healthcare provider.

 

[thyme2bprepped]

NO.......he died because after his leg injury, he abandoned his lifestyle, and became depressed, obese, inactive. That said, he was the originator of what we now call, survivalist theory.

Highlights the importance of heath care and maintenance even for rugged individualist survivalists. Sad that he died at just 47 years of age.

 

[sonya1]

We definitely live out in the middle of nowhere but love it here. We have satellite internet which sucks, but it is good enough to post on here, and order things on Amazon. I also have Netflix DVDs. We have spring water ( gravity fed) so no need for a water pump, heat with wood and cook with wood and propane in the summer.
I would the say the biggest problem is our son has to drive an hour each way to get to the nearest community college, but it's still worth it.
There are a few people around here that have jobs in town, nearest small town is about 40 minutes away, nearest gas station 20 minutes.
I would personally rather live here and have some inconvenience than still be stuck in downtown Orlando.