Dude, you sound like a broken record. You've already said this like three times already on this thread. Rather than tear down the purpose of the kit why don't you provide constructive feedback on the contents, like what works and what doesn't. You keep mentioning fire starting items, but this kit has multiple fire starting items.
Survival Tin Content
I recently wrote this article on the contents of my Altoids survival tin. I'd like to get feedback on my kit and ideas from others who have made a similar mini-survival kit. Any must-have items that I'm missing?
http://mellomikeswolfcreekcamper.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-your-own-survival-tin.html
http://mellomikeswolfcreekcamper.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-your-own-survival-tin.html
41 - 60 of 68 Posts
Great thoughts. This is the type of feedback I was looking for. I don't think we should get too caught up in the name of these kits. Nobody is going to "survive" on these for any length of time, but you do bring up some great points that has me rethinking about some items in this kit. I'm thinking about removing the Q-tip, tweezers, ear plugs, and zip tie to make room for a collapsible water bag, whistle, and mini bic style lighter (this will give the kit three sources for starting fires).These tins are gadjets IMO, you will never be able to fit what you need in a tin this size and the least you would need to survive is a knife, fire starter and some container to boil water in. What I believe one should focus on with these tins is not to survive but to make it a few days in the wild. The basics that you need to SURVIVE and most of the stuff you find will only take up space in such a scenario. If you don't have the ability to create some form of shelter with the tin you will find yourself in some serious trouble and you will be in this trouble fast. While some say you one need to find a tree to keep yourself dry I doubt these have ever experienced a night without shelter.
A basic tin for me would have
Knife
Fire starting - steel, matches, lens, alcohol tissues
shelter - Plastic bag
water purification
duct tape
Signaling - mirror on the tin, something orange)
1:st aid - pretty much the duct tape + some medical tape for small cuts.
creating a tin that you could survive in the wild for long just isn't realistic. The size of the knife pretty much make it impossible for you to do anything more then cut twigs and prepare food. If you put in a bigger knife, the space won't fit much more. Another problem with a tin is how you would fit a container into it. The tin itself is to small for any reasonable volume of anything and if you need to carry water you are in trouble. The small water carriers that are out there pretty much take up all the space in the tin.
I probably come of as somewhat pessimistic but I do believe we need to get realistic with these tins. If you can't start a afire you are in great trouble, if you can't protect yourself from the elements you are in great trouble, if you can't keep water you are in great trouble, etc. You can survive for a week on water alone but you won't survive for long if you can't get these basics covered within the tin.
The "swap out" your talking about sounds like a good idea. :thumb:
Some good info in here. Something that would go good in any size kit, but especially in this small of one would be a fresnel lens. While not as easy as a bic lighter, it would work indefinately as long as you have sun light. That way you can use it as long as you need to and not until you run out. Plus, if the flint on the lighter gets wet, you have to wait for it to dry and it may not be as good.
So what is the #3 C.......?IMO you should always have at least the 5 C's of survivability (1. Cutting tool, 2. Cover, 4. Container for boiling water, 5. Combustion device) in every kit you make since those are the hardest things that also require the most time and energy to reproduce in the wild.
Oops my bad. Cordage. To me there is no certain order after cutting tool and container for boiling water. :thumb:So what is the #3 C.......?
Well I can't go to the link you posted in the OP since I'm at work. Please list the contents of your tin and maybe I can find something that will actually do you any good if you ever actually have to use it.Dude, you sound like a broken record. You've already said this like three times already on this thread. Rather than tear down the purpose of the kit why don't you provide constructive feedback on the contents, like what works and what doesn't. You keep mentioning fire starting items, but this kit has multiple fire starting items.
IMO all these threads about Altoids tin "kits" are a broken record. People (usually people just getting started in this hobby" always seem to get hung up on a having a great "bombproof" Altoids (or insert whatever other types of tins here) "PSK" when there is no such thing.
I always try to point out the weaknesses so that maybe they will see that it's just as easy and many times easier to carry essential items that will actually do some good for them if they ever actually HAVE to use them in a real emergency.
You can NOT put an appropriate size knife that you can use to build shelter, split wood to get to the dry stuff inside, or make feather sticks in an Altoids size "kit".
You can NOT carry a reliable boiling container in that size tin.
You can NOT put an adequite cover element in a tin that size.
That is why I always point out how easy it is to carry a 5 C kit that will actually do some good if you find yourself in a bad situation in the woods. :thumb:
I hope I help shed some light on the situation for you and anybody else that is just getting started out.
The messiah of Dave's Cs.I hope I help shed some light on the situation for you and anybody else that is just getting started out.
Does anyone remember when they were called the ten "essentials" for surviving/hiking?
I'm pretty sure Dave didn't invent them all by himself and people had them long before Dave was born.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials
Nobody ever said Dave invented them. He pretty much just came up with his own version that made sense to him and makes sense to other people as well. Is there something wrong with that or are you just another DC hater?The messiah of Dave's Cs.
Does anyone remember when they were called the ten "essentials" for surviving/hiking?
I'm pretty sure Dave didn't invent them all by himself and people had them long before Dave was born.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials
I use the 10 C's because for me they are easy to remember and easy to apply and make sense to me. IMO Dave is like a wilderness self reliance kindergarten teacher. He makes it easy and then you can apply it to other things in the woods.
For me the tenents of the Pathfinder system are taking what works and finding the most common man way to approach it with common sense and using pieces for every kit that are as multipurpose as possible.
I was away during the last days and though some about survival tins, my opinion is that they should be constructed in accordance with a BoB. Hence you need to get all the stuff you have in a backpack into a tin. Naturally you won't have a hatchet, sleeping bag, water bottle and the like but you must still have something comparable.
One also need to think for a while on how you store the stuff in the tin. Simply throwing it in there will mean that stuff get lost once the tin has been opened. Stuff need to be taped/glued to the tin since you won't use a needle most of the time but when you need it you are in terrible shape if you don't have one. The same is true for most small trinkets. We won't be looking at starting fires more then one time over a 72 hour period but if we need to we must have more then a hand full of matches.
Regarding DC's 10 C's I really don't know anyone who has been able to create something as good as he has. Having everything beginning with the letter C helps a lot and even if you have other names for the same system I will probably only think about 10 C's or a derivative of it. I will however say that some of the C's aren't that useful in a survival tin, but a compass is so small you can fit it in one.
If I got stuck in the wild with a survival tin I would want to stay put and signal for help in some way. I don't know where you people live but if I got stranded in the middle of summer in the wild where I live I wouldn't be that happy with trying to navigate myself back home. If we are talking about a 4 hour walk it is fine but anything more then a day is a lot more trouble then you think when you don't have water.
The survival tins are good to get the thought process around survival started but you really don't want to ever be relying on such a tin. You will be in a lot of trouble if you do!
One also need to think for a while on how you store the stuff in the tin. Simply throwing it in there will mean that stuff get lost once the tin has been opened. Stuff need to be taped/glued to the tin since you won't use a needle most of the time but when you need it you are in terrible shape if you don't have one. The same is true for most small trinkets. We won't be looking at starting fires more then one time over a 72 hour period but if we need to we must have more then a hand full of matches.
Regarding DC's 10 C's I really don't know anyone who has been able to create something as good as he has. Having everything beginning with the letter C helps a lot and even if you have other names for the same system I will probably only think about 10 C's or a derivative of it. I will however say that some of the C's aren't that useful in a survival tin, but a compass is so small you can fit it in one.
If I got stuck in the wild with a survival tin I would want to stay put and signal for help in some way. I don't know where you people live but if I got stranded in the middle of summer in the wild where I live I wouldn't be that happy with trying to navigate myself back home. If we are talking about a 4 hour walk it is fine but anything more then a day is a lot more trouble then you think when you don't have water.
The survival tins are good to get the thought process around survival started but you really don't want to ever be relying on such a tin. You will be in a lot of trouble if you do!
Boy, you can really stuff items in a tin. I never could stuff all the items some folk did to win contests with tins.Hence you need to get all the stuff you have in a backpack into a tin.
Regarding DS's 10 C's I really don't know anyone who has been able to create something as good as he has.
The survival tins are good to get the thought process around survival started but you really don't want to ever be relying on such a tin. You will be in a lot of trouble if you do!
WTF is DS?
So you think it's good, but you don't like it?
I guess someone hasn't ever watched Dave use an Altoids tin?You know this thread reminded me of these nifty Canterbury vids from his pathfinder school.
SAN ALTOIDS Tin Mini Kit Part 1 (of 4 )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4o0fwFgfxU&feature=share&list=UUqj_TRAIhcBWMiZPpLGjr-g
SAN Altoids Tin Mini Kit Dave's Picks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaNOx6Iwop8&feature=share&list=UUqj_TRAIhcBWMiZPpLGjr-g
At least he's never mentioned it anyways.
In a somewhat derisive tone, you seem to be implying that only "beginners" or newbies have any interest in creating an "Altoids" Survival Tin. I don't think that characterization is correct. In my case I've been prepping since the late 90s. I know lots of preppers who have such a kit not to mention the military who have been using similar kits for decades.Well I can't go to the link you posted in the OP since I'm at work. Please list the contents of your tin and maybe I can find something that will actually do you any good if you ever actually have to use it.
IMO all these threads about Altoids tin "kits" are a broken record. People (usually people just getting started in this hobby" always seem to get hung up on a having a great "bombproof" Altoids (or insert whatever other types of tins here) "PSK" when there is no such thing.
I always try to point out the weaknesses so that maybe they will see that it's just as easy and many times easier to carry essential items that will actually do some good for them if they ever actually HAVE to use them in a real emergency.
You can NOT put an appropriate size knife that you can use to build shelter, split wood to get to the dry stuff inside, or make feather sticks in an Altoids size "kit".
You can NOT carry a reliable boiling container in that size tin.
You can NOT put an adequite cover element in a tin that size.
That is why I always point out how easy it is to carry a 5 C kit that will actually do some good if you find yourself in a bad situation in the woods. :thumb:
I hope I help shed some light on the situation for you and anybody else that is just getting started out.
You can fit lots of stuff in a tin, but since such a kit will never be comparable with a 30 liter bag I suggest we look at keeping us alive in the wild with such a tin and if we are to do that I say shelter is among the most important things. I say this living in Sweden where it get really cold and constructing a shelter in 30 minutes gives us time to do other stuff or simply lay down and save out energy. I say a Tin need to have shelter, fire capability, carrying capability and a cutting tool. Everything else we can get into the can is just extras that we should be thankful for. If one have two orange garbage bags, a fire steel + matches, a knife and a waterproof bag we have a decent chance of making it for 72 hours.Boy, you can really stuff items in a tin. I never could stuff all the items some folk did to win contests with tins.
WTF is DS?
So you think it's good, but you don't like it?
If we are in a tropical paradise with everything we need to survive for a lifetime that is great but I see these tins as playing a role when we are not. I imagine us hiking and crossing a river where we get swept down and loose all other gear, a car that break down in the middle of nowhere and alike. I would not like to ever in my life depend on such a tin given I know the environments I would find myself using these in. My suggestions to the thin is heavily influenced from a cold climate.
DS was to be written DC as in Dave Canterbury.
What's so great about this kit is that it can fit in your pocket. Sure I have an EDC and BOB, but I use this kit as a backup. Let me repeat that, as a backup. It's not my primary means of survival and was never intended for it to be so.
It's a lost cause dude. I've heard it and even said it myself over and over. Yet someone will post some monster kit here soon talking how much better it is than an Altoids kit.What's so great about this kit is that it can fit in your pocket. Sure I have EDCs and BOBs, but I use this kit as a backup. Let me repeat that, as a backup. It's not my primary means of survival and was never intended for it to be so.
I hear 'ya, bud. That was my closing salvo.
Based upon the mostly excellent feedback on this forum and others, I've ditched the following items:
1. Tweezers
2. Ear Plugs
3. Q-Tip
4. Alcohol Wipe (1 ea)
5. Band Aid (1 ea)
6. Zip Tie
7. Wire Saw
8. Candle
You can see the revised contents of my tin at this link: http://mellomikeswolfcreekcamper.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-your-own-survival-tin.html
1. Tweezers
2. Ear Plugs
3. Q-Tip
4. Alcohol Wipe (1 ea)
5. Band Aid (1 ea)
6. Zip Tie
7. Wire Saw
8. Candle
You can see the revised contents of my tin at this link: http://mellomikeswolfcreekcamper.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-your-own-survival-tin.html
Great thread:thumb:
I think the contents of these tins tends to be a bit fluid over the years with items being replaced or swapped out.
I may regret this
, but here is what I have found to be most useful for me over the years:
![]()
Tobacco tin
Sealed with PVC tape
Pencil
Bic lighter
Candle
HSS drill bit
Needles, pre threaded with thread
Part hacksaw blade
Magnisium block with inletted flint
Boot lace with nylon cord
5 in 1; whistle, torch, compass, magnifier lens, temp gauge (key chain removed)
Wire saw and split rings (quality twisted wire not single serrated wire)
.22lr round
Nails
Fishing line
Assortment of hooks
Scalpel blades
Pure cotton cloth
Water purification tabs, not in picture
SL
I think the contents of these tins tends to be a bit fluid over the years with items being replaced or swapped out.
I may regret this
, but here is what I have found to be most useful for me over the years:
Tobacco tin
Sealed with PVC tape
Pencil
Bic lighter
Candle
HSS drill bit
Needles, pre threaded with thread
Part hacksaw blade
Magnisium block with inletted flint
Boot lace with nylon cord
5 in 1; whistle, torch, compass, magnifier lens, temp gauge (key chain removed)
Wire saw and split rings (quality twisted wire not single serrated wire)
.22lr round
Nails
Fishing line
Assortment of hooks
Scalpel blades
Pure cotton cloth
Water purification tabs, not in picture
SL
Just a thought (on topic) ranger bands make excellent firelighters, hit it with a naked flame from match or lighter and a lil will burn for a while making fire starting easier especially in damp conditions. With that in mind it might be worth adding another 2 or 3, they take up no room and have multiple uses.Based upon the mostly excellent feedback on this forum and others, I've ditched the following items:
1. Tweezers
2. Ear Plugs
3. Q-Tip
4. Alcohol Wipe (1 ea)
5. Band Aid (1 ea)
6. Zip Tie
7. Wire Saw
8. Candle
You can see the revised contents of my tin at this link: http://mellomikeswolfcreekcamper.blogspot.com/2013/04/making-your-own-survival-tin.html
41 - 60 of 68 Posts
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