[rickp]

I have a question for EMS or medic types.

When I was trained in medical treatment with the military we were taught to use a wrapper taped in 3 places to treat a sucking chest wound.
Now I know that one can use an occlusive dressing to do the same thing, so my question is how effective is it??

In my trauma bag I have 2 chest seals, which is what I would use first, but I also have vaseline gauses should I need them. So again , how effective is the occlusive dressing for this?

R.

 

[Jedi Medic]

I have a question for EMS or medic types.

When I was trained in medical treatment with the military we were taught to use a wrapper taped in 3 places to treat a sucking chest wound.

THIS is an occlusive dressing. It's how things are done with the proper equipment. Tape and plastic will always be around. Gimmicks like asherman chest seals and the like will expire and dry out before you ever use them. I am not convinced of their usefulness, I do not carry them or any other fad equipment.

Now I know that one can use an occlusive dressing to do the same thing, so my question is how effective is it??

That depends. Most of the damage from a sucking chest wound that creates a hemo/pnuemothorax will occur pretty quickly after the injury occurs, often getting to a point where it won't get any worse or will be incompatible with life. Applying an occlusive dressing won't fix it but will keep it from getting worse. Be advised that bleeding from injured lung tissue and air escaping from broken airways inside the lung can creat a severe hemo/pnuemothorax. Sometimes this happens with a closed chest.

In my trauma bag I have 2 chest seals, which is what I would use first, but I also have vaseline gauses should I need them. So again , how effective is the occlusive dressing for this?

Tape and plastic from a bandage wrapper, MRE cigarette pack, etc can be used to make a 3 sided occlusive dressing. The fourth side is the "burp valve" that allows air to escape but not enter the wound. Asherman created nothing special, they just refined an old idea, put it in an OD package to make it "tactical" and sold them by the thousands. The vast majority will be expired and the adhesive dried out and useless. The rest that are used are in a war zone where these injuries actually happen frequently.

I've plugged holes in a chest with Vaseline gauze where there was no evidence of lung collapse. That's it's primary purpose.

R.

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[The Jingoist]

God Bless you Jedi Medic. Ashermans chest seal... not in my aid bag. I used explosive adhesive given to me by a PA in the 'stan (not all the time of course). One of my instructors in BNCOC claimed to have helped develop the Ashermans chest seal. I told him i'm sorry.

 

[SOTSDoc]

Sorry Jedi, the 3 sided taping has been phased out the last few years. For untrained individuals I recommend that you create a complete seal taping all around. This is due to the fact that the majority of non-medical personnel cannot properly identify if the seal is effective or flawed.
So tape on 4 sides and evac.

 

[Duster]

I cant help but ponder at the phrase "non-medical personnel". I've been through a few trauma-type medical courses due to my job(s), and they all address chest wounds. We are told to do the three sided on the front, and a four sided on the back (if there is an exit wound).

But I wonder, how many people who have no training whatsoever would even attempt to deal with a chest wound? I think everyone and their mothers know to put pressure on a wound, and I think thats what joe-schmo on the street would probably do. Anyone with moderate medical knowledge who has been taught first responder or trauma specific practices would probably know the 3 sided trick.

Not disagreeing or anything, I just dont think someone with NO knowledge would even know enough to put a 4 sided dressing on to begin with (at least one involving plastic. I have this mental imagine of a hole stuffed with gauze or something).

 

[Jedi Medic]

Not disagreeing or anything, I just dont think someone with NO knowledge would even know enough to put a 4 sided dressing on to begin with (at least one involving plastic. I have this mental imagine of a hole stuffed with gauze or something).

That's pretty much right. Use vaseline saturated gauze to make it airtight.

Schools of thought change over time.

 

[canman]

I've used Ashermans and usually had problems with them sticking. They do work if they stick though.

 

[rickp]

What about HALO seals any better performance with the sticking on this brand??

R.

 

[SOTSDoc]

I cant help but ponder at the phrase "non-medical personnel".

By that I mean someone who has not attended a formal medical training school. I consider medical personnel as EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P, Corpsman/medics, RN, NP, PA, MD/DO.

 

[SOTSDoc]

What about HALO seals any better performance with the sticking on this brand??

R.

In my experience utilizing both Ashermans and HALOs in both combat and civilian situations, I have found HALOs to be significantly superior.

 

[rickp]

In my experience utilizing both Ashermans and HALOs in both combat and civilian situations, I have found HALOs to be significantly superior.

Great to know thanks.