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From time to time I see discussions on the forums about gear and supplies that survivalist should invest into - like a berkey water filter, mountain house foods, or long term food storage items. For the sake of discussion, lets talk about stuff you should not invest into.

Before investing a lot of money into a project, there is a lot of stuff to consider. The first thing is "can you "really" afford it? It would be nice to have half a million dollars to drop into 1,000 acres in Alaska and a 2 story cabin. But the fact is, most people can not afford such luxuries. Next, do you really "need" the supplies? Or, are you buying the stuff just to have it?


Gold - As of today, October 5, 2010 the price of gold is $1,333.95 per ounce. For the average working middle class family, who is struggling to pay a house note, electric bill, insurance, buy food,,,,,, forking out $1,333 for an ounce of gold is out of the question. In a lot of cases, that $1,333 would pay1 or 2 house notes. Having a place to live is more important then trying to buy gold in these tough financial times. If your one of the lucky few that money is not an issue, then maybe buying gold is right up your alley.

Meals Ready to Eat - the good ole MRE is not a top pick for a long term survivalist food. Sure the military hands them out by the case, but the military also has plenty of money.

MRE cons:
Expensive - costing about $75 per case. With 12 meals per case, that equals out to $6.25 per meal.
Sodium content - see this post for a full description of the sodium content in MREs. To say that MREs are high in sodium is an understatement.
Affected by heat - unless you have the room in your house, or a climate controlled storage area, your MRE lifespan is going to be seriously affected by storing them in the garage or storage building. From the studies I have seen, 1 day over 100 degrees takes 1 month off the life span.

If you want to buy some MREs, then please do so. I usually keep around 6 - 12 cases in stock at all times. Their mainly used on hiking, camping, backpacking and hunting trips. Their a quick and easy grab and go meal, but for long term food storage, there are better options.

Black Powder Rifles - a lot of people see black powder as the ultimate survivalist firearm, mainly because black powder was used for centuries before smokeless powder was developed. The problem with black powder - even modern day black powder - its corrosive. When you shoot a black powder firearm, it has to be cleaned within 24 hours or else the corrosive properties of the powder start to eat at the barrel. Its the time and supplies needed to clean the black powder rifle that makes it go on the "do not buy list". If you want a survival rifle, get an SKS and a case of non-corrosive 7.62X39.

Land you will never see - owning 100+ acres in the Alaska wilderness is the dream that a lot of people share. But the fact is, most people can not afford to visit, develop, or maintain such property. For the average working class family that struggles to pay their house note, electric bill, insurance, buy food,,,, buying some cheap land might seem like a good investment. But when it comes time to visit the land, how are you going to reach it? Do you need to fly in, do you have a 4-wheel drive truck or SUV to reach the land, are there even roads going to the land? Buying land in a remote location might seem like a good idea, but not when you have to plan 2 weeks vacation, fly to wherever the land is at, and then backpack 100 miles to its location. For some people, sure, that might work out just fine. But for others, the dream might turn into a nightmare real quick.

Stuff you will never use - and this can be anything. Whether its buying too many backpacks, too many water filters, too many canned goods - and they expire before their eaten, too many sleeping bags, cots, air mattresses,,,,,,,,. Purchases need to be kept in proportion to how much you use the items. If you do not use it a lot, do not buy a lot of them.

Back in the late 1990s the survivalist group I was in had a Bug Out Bag made up for the members and firearms for everyone. Each bag contained various ammo, rain poncho, canteen, water purification tablets, matches,,,,,,. The plan was for when the United Nations invaded the USA, we were going to Bug Out to the Wilderness and hold up. There was a lot of talk in the 1990s about NAFTA, GATT, the assault rifle ban and the UN going house to house and picking up guns. But that is what happens when you have events like Waco, Ruby Ridge, and people like Bill Clinton and Janet Reno in power. When you have a government agency that would shoot and kill an unarmed woman holding a baby - the wife of Randy Weaver - they are capable of anything.

Needless to say, king clinton and her husband served their terms and had to step down. The United Nations invasion never came, and we never had to use our Bug Out Bags.

Its all about keeping things in proportion. Do you have enough of that, but too much of this. Do you "really" need to buy that, will it ever be used, and could that money go towards something better, like buying food for your family.

And stay away from the conspiracy theories.
 

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Thanks Kev, it's nice to see a different look at a surivivalist thread. One talking about what NOT to do/bring instead of things that are "necessary" to a BOB or BOL. As most of us have figured out, it can be really easy to buy everything in sight that deals with surviving and prepping (Lord knows there are enough options). Always good to take a step back and analyze what you have and will actually use compared to a lot of extra stuff just taking up space and cluttering up a preppers inventory.
 

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Noman
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All good points Kev, I can definitely see how survival purchases can get out of hand really quick for the begining prepper. The tendancy to overstock is definitely there. You buy too much of things you don't need and they expire and become wastes of hard earned money.

I will probably catch some flak for this but I would say buying thousands upon thousand of rounds of ammo. I agree that it is always good to have a stock of ammo on hand and that the ammount you have on hand will vary from person to person depending on how much you shoot/practice/ etc...I am talking about the begining prepper who think they need to have a rifle in every cailiber and keep 10,000 rounds on hand for each one.

This is not realistic nor is it necessary. A good .22 and a couple of bricks of ammo will go a long way.
 

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Slush Butter Knife
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I've only been doing this a short time and because of this site and post like this and even the ones that preach "YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS IF YOUR GOING TO SURVIVE" have helped me tremendously!!!

See the threads that preach do have their place, its just a matter of isolating what is most important to you.

And nothing against Getyershells, but I love the ammo threads!!! the back and forth cracks me up!!
 

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From time to time I see discussions on the forums about gear and supplies that survivalist should invest into - like a berkey water filter, mountain house foods, or long term food storage items. For the sake of discussion, lets talk about stuff you should not invest into.

Before investing a lot of money into a project, there is a lot of stuff to consider. The first thing is "can you "really" afford it? It would be nice to have half a million dollars to drop into 1,000 acres in Alaska and a 2 story cabin. But the fact is, most people can not afford such luxuries. Next, do you really "need" the supplies? Or, are you buying the stuff just to have it?


Gold - As of today, October 5, 2010 the price of gold is $1,333.95 per ounce. For the average working middle class family, who is struggling to pay a house note, electric bill, insurance, buy food,,,,,, forking out $1,333 for an ounce of gold is out of the question. In a lot of cases, that $1,333 would pay1 or 2 house notes. Having a place to live is more important then trying to buy gold in these tough financial times. If your one of the lucky few that money is not an issue, then maybe buying gold is right up your alley.

Meals Ready to Eat - the good ole MRE is not a top pick for a long term survivalist food. Sure the military hands them out by the case, but the military also has plenty of money.

MRE cons:
Expensive - costing about $75 per case. With 12 meals per case, that equals out to $6.25 per meal.
Sodium content - see this post for a full description of the sodium content in MREs. To say that MREs are high in sodium is an understatement.
Affected by heat - unless you have the room in your house, or a climate controlled storage area, your MRE lifespan is going to be seriously affected by storing them in the garage or storage building. From the studies I have seen, 1 day over 100 degrees takes 1 month off the life span.

If you want to buy some MREs, then please do so. I usually keep around 6 - 12 cases in stock at all times. Their mainly used on hiking, camping, backpacking and hunting trips. Their a quick and easy grab and go meal, but for long term food storage, there are better options.

Black Powder Rifles - a lot of people see black powder as the ultimate survivalist firearm, mainly because black powder was used for centuries before smokeless powder was developed. The problem with black powder - even modern day black powder - its corrosive. When you shoot a black powder firearm, it has to be cleaned within 24 hours or else the corrosive properties of the powder start to eat at the barrel. Its the time and supplies needed to clean the black powder rifle that makes it go on the "do not buy list". If you want a survival rifle, get an SKS and a case of non-corrosive 7.62X39.

Land you will never see - owning 100+ acres in the Alaska wilderness is the dream that a lot of people share. But the fact is, most people can not afford to visit, develop, or maintain such property. For the average working class family that struggles to pay their house note, electric bill, insurance, buy food,,,, buying some cheap land might seem like a good investment. But when it comes time to visit the land, how are you going to reach it? Do you need to fly in, do you have a 4-wheel drive truck or SUV to reach the land, are there even roads going to the land? Buying land in a remote location might seem like a good idea, but not when you have to plan 2 weeks vacation, fly to wherever the land is at, and then backpack 100 miles to its location. For some people, sure, that might work out just fine. But for others, the dream might turn into a nightmare real quick.

Stuff you will never use - and this can be anything. Whether its buying too many backpacks, too many water filters, too many canned goods - and they expire before their eaten, too many sleeping bags, cots, air mattresses,,,,,,,,. Purchases need to be kept in proportion to how much you use the items. If you do not use it a lot, do not buy a lot of them.

Back in the late 1990s the survivalist group I was in had a Bug Out Bag made up for the members and firearms for everyone. Each bag contained various ammo, rain poncho, canteen, water purification tablets, matches,,,,,,. The plan was for when the United Nations invaded the USA, we were going to Bug Out to the Wilderness and hold up. There was a lot of talk in the 1990s about NAFTA, GATT, the assault rifle ban and the UN going house to house and picking up guns. But that is what happens when you have events like Waco, Ruby Ridge, and people like Bill Clinton and Janet Reno in power. When you have a government agency that would shoot and kill an unarmed woman holding a baby - the wife of Randy Weaver - they are capable of anything.

Needless to say, king clinton and her husband served their terms and had to step down. The United Nations invasion never came, and we never had to use our Bug Out Bags.

Its all about keeping things in proportion. Do you have enough of that, but too much of this. Do you "really" need to buy that, will it ever be used, and could that money go towards something better, like buying food for your family.

And stay away from the conspiracy theories.
Hang Around.................OBONGO & HITLERY Klinton are working with the U.N. to OUTLAW American guns as you typed this !!! :eek:

GOOD Post though !!! :thumb:
 

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I'm going to have to disagree on conspiracy theories (I agree with everything else).

The reason I disagree, the whole UN, New World Order, one world government thing. This was once a conspiracy theory, that we now know to be absolutely true. If people had paid more attention to those conspiracies, we might not be where we are.

So my advice, pay attention to conspiracy theories, just don't take them as fact without investigating what is said.
 

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Agree with most of Kev's points, and good idea for a thread, BTW.

Needless to say, king clinton and her husband served their terms and had to step down. The United Nations invasion never came, and we never had to use our Bug Out Bags.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. I have a BOB which I hardly ever use (I know, I should practice more), but it's worth every penny to me for the insurance factor should I come to need it.
 

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being on a tight budget makes you think about what you really need. and you have to prioritize correctly. it also helps to be realistic about what your preparing for. for example, I'm not preparing for TEOTWAWKI. I'm trying to prep for if I end up loosing my job, a major mechanic bill on my car. all personal SHTF situations.

and being a gun guy, I've had put off buying any new toys until I can shore my finances up & get some basic car maintenance done. I only have one car and a Mt. bike, I don't have the luxury of having even a basic 4x4 BOV.

I've been trying to put together my basic backpacking gear for over a year. I now have the essentials: pack, tent, water filter, sleeping bag and mat. but buggin out is just not in the plans. I dont have a BOL out in the middle of nowhere, and couldn't afford one anyway.

a good budget is key, especially if I can stick to it.
 

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All good advice on thought and moderation. I'm especially with Kev on gold right now. While I own metals, I bought in when they were far under value, and I had money left over from an investment I cashed out, so it made sense. I wouldn't buy into the current market if I had money coming out my pores.

I'm also with getyershells about overstocking ammo. While I'm one who believes that you can't ever have enough ammo. It doesn't make sense to stockpile tens of thousands of rounds if it comes at the expense of other, more critical items that are more important. Get some ammo, and get the other things you need also. If you have money left over afterwards, then maybe get some more ammo, if there aren't other things you need worse. If you figure on having to put tens of thousands of rounds downrange in self defense, it's time to get a new plan. In a firefight, both sides can expect to take losses, regardless who wins. And to be far, expect one incoming round for every outgoing round, and you see where this is leading.
 

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Noman
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And nothing against Getyershells, but I love the ammo threads!!! the back and forth cracks me up!!
I love reading the ammo threads as well. It makes for a good laugh sometimes. However, if you have ten thousand rounds of .308 and 5.56 but you don't have any plans for water treatment or sanitation then your priorities are way out of whack. Sure, if SHTF you could use your guns and ammo to go look for some water treatment preps but you will only last 3 days without water...plus if someone who has preped water, AND guns and ammo see's you come to his place to steal his preps you've already lost.
 

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And stay away from the conspiracy theories.
I second that one! The truth is bad enough. Why marginalize yourself with a bunch of wild conspiracy theories you'll never be able to prove and won't matter in the end.

Until the "NWO" shows up at my door to put me in a "FEMA Camp," I'm going to be concerned about local and federal law enforcement. They're bad enough without the "UN Blue Hats" or black helicopters. You're VERY likely to be harassed, killed, beaten, tasered, stolen from, and so on by your "friendly" local/state/federal law enforcement agent than you ever are by some wild conspiracy driven hypothetical situation.

Yes, there is fluoride in the water and my teeth are better for it. A little bit of poison has even been proven to promote health.

If vaccines were the lynch pin in the plan to exterminate Americans en masse, then we'd all be dead already.

Maybe international treaty agreements will be used to circumvent our laws, but it seems to me that our laws are routinely circumvented, ignored, bastardized, etc on a regular basis without international help.

Who cares if 9/11 was an inside job. You'll NEVER prove otherwise and does it really even matter? If it was some trumped up excuse to go to war, then it doesn't matter because they'd think of another reason if 9/11 was proven to be an inside job.

I don't think Barry Soetoro is a naturalized US citizen, but that doesn't matter because the US Constitution doesn't matter anymore. You won't win this battle.

If you think they're watching you, then stop hanging out with Muslim extremists. If you're not hanging out with Muslim extremists, they might be watching you, but it is not a conspiracy. It's a paranoid government thrashing due to it being on its last leg, similarly to how an injured dog will attack anyone who gets near it.

I'll think of more and sorry for going off topic.
 

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Noman
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I would also add to the list of things not to prep. Excessive portable electronic devices. Lord knows I have my share of them. The problem is the more electronics you have...the more batteries and back-up solar chargers you have to prep as well. You can have all the electronics in the world but with no way to keep them running then they are just expensive paper weights. Just keep the essentials GPS, cell-phone, radio...and make sure you have batteries out the yin-yang.
 

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I'm going to have to disagree on conspiracy theories (I agree with everything else).

The reason I disagree, the whole UN, New World Order, one world government thing. This was once a conspiracy theory, that we now know to be absolutely true. If people had paid more attention to those conspiracies, we might not be where we are.

So my advice, pay attention to conspiracy theories, just don't take them as fact without investigating what is said.
ALL of the conspiracy theories may be true, but does it matter? What can you do about it? When it comes to survival, does it really matter if it is a UN Blue Hat or your local Barney Fife showing up at your door to disarm you or take your liberty/property? Would you not react mostly the same way if a blue hat comes to your door or someone in a US Army uniform does?

I tend to try to focus on things I can do something about and leave the conspiratorial speculation alone since it doesn't help me accomplish anything productive. I have a friend that calls it "disaster porn" since it seems that some people really get their jollies on this stuff. It just doesn't serve any productive purpose in the end.
 

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:eek:

It's no wonder the country is headed the way it is with all the apathetics.
You're missing my point.

I don't trust or like our government anyway. If 9/11 was an inside job, I don't distrust or like them any less (it's actually impossible).

I also don't trust or like Muslim extremists. If 9/11 was not an inside job, I don't distrust or like them any less.

There is a LONG history of Muslim extremists using terrorism against non-Muslims.

There is a LONG history of our government using terrorism against us.

It's not apathy. It's my feeling that they are all evil and some conspiracy theory doesn't make any difference to me. I am not a fan of the government or Muslim extremists either way.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
stockpiling survival gear

I'm going to have to disagree on conspiracy theories (I agree with everything else).

The reason I disagree, the whole UN, New World Order, one world government thing. This was once a conspiracy theory, that we now know to be absolutely true.
And people still vote democrat and republican. Until people vote different - we will never have real change.

Back in the 1990s, it got the point where we (members of my group) would drive by the local ports and look for UN vehicles. One time a bunch of UN vehicles were being offloaded from some ships. I thought "man, this is it, the invasion is going to start anyday now,,,,." Come to find out the troops were being sent to west Texas or Arizona for cross training with US troops.

Then Bill Clinton was re-elected, and that was "after" he had flipped flopped on NAFTA and free trade.

If the citizens of this nation will elect people like Obama, and Clinton, they will elect anyone.

There is no hope until the majority of the people change the way they vote. Since there is no hope, there is no need to worry about it. I have more important things to focus on.
 
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