[merlinfire]

Just wanted to drop in and ask a quick question. I'm planning on buying a large quantity of this stuff.....i've got to run the numbers on our usage level, but i'd like to buy 10 years worth of supply, and if I have more room, going for longer. I know this stuff is supposed to last "forever", but I do have a few questions.

1) Sugar/Salt, just pouring it into food-grade buckets ok? Do I need to put something in the sugar to prevent moisture/clumping? I know for most perishable foods mylar is the way to go, but it's not actually necessary for salt and sugar is it?

2) Honey, does it matter what the containers are made from? My instinct tells me glass is better than plastic. Does it matter?

3) When it comes to sugar/salt, any tips for making it easier to use from the bucket? Maybe special 5-gal lids that have smaller openings or spouts or something?

4) Any other tips?

 

[IamZeke]

You should fill on a dry day or in a dry space. Whenever you are running central heat or AC the humidity will be low.

Otherwise you have to use desiccant packs. Big ones.

If you go to a real paint store, not the big box home centers, you can buy or order new 5 gallon lids with a pull up pour spout.

Real paint stores will also sell/order metal 5 gallon empty cans with spouts. Just don't put the salt in metal.

Start off at a retail Sherwin Williams store. They might have order minimums though if it isn't a stock item.

Forget online. Too few vendors and freight is high. A 5gal metal closed head drum with spout should be under $20 but online sellers either want to sell you one for $50 or sell you a pallet of 20.

If you live rural you might call the closest city. A paint store that deals with residential paint contractors should help.

 

[prairieskygirl]

I've never done the honey so I can't help with that. I keep our honey in jars and in a cool, dry, dark place.

Now - although you do need to keep salt and sugar dry and keep bugs out of them, they do not need oxygen absorbers. And, the absorbers will harden the sugar (like a block). Just find a food safe bucket with a tight lid (I like the gamma lids). I still seal them in mylar bags first and then put in the bucket - just without the absorber.

I use the buckets to keep rodents out and to protect the mylar bags from getting any holes poked in them. You probably wouldn't need to use the mylar bags but I like the extra security of having them double sealed... so to speak.

I get my buckets from a local grocery store that has a bakery. As long as there is still frosting in the buckets (and that's how they leave them) - you know they are food grade. You just have to clean them well. Our stores just give them to us... but we have to call in and 'order' them so they can hold them.

Also by storing them in one gallon mylar bags first... I don't have to keep opening a bucket to get into the salt or sugar and opening it up to the potential to contaminants getting into the whole bucket. I just use up each mylar bag and then get another one.

 

[puttster]

I got a galvanized 20 gal rat-proof garbage can and loaded it with 120 lbs of various sized bags of sugar. I keep it above the garage. After 4-5 years the bags look like the day I put them in there.

This is my alcohol stash, 2.5 lbs of sugar is supposed to yield a gallon of wine-equivalent beverage. I am currently testing that calculation but even if you're not a drinker, sugar is a cheap and low-preparation source of calories.

 

[vivisky]

I've never done the honey so I can't help with that. I keep our honey in jars and in a cool, dry, dark place.

Now - although you do need to keep salt and sugar dry and keep bugs out of them, they do not need oxygen absorbers. And, the absorbers will harden the sugar (like a block). Just find a food safe bucket with a tight lid (I like the gamma lids). I still seal them in mylar bags first and then put in the bucket - just without the absorber.

I use the buckets to keep rodents out and to protect the mylar bags from getting any holes poked in them. You probably wouldn't need to use the mylar bags but I like the extra security of having them double sealed... so to speak.

I get my buckets from a local grocery store that has a bakery. As long as there is still frosting in the buckets (and that's how the leave them) - you know they are food grade. You just have to clean them well. Our stores just give them to us... but we have to call in and 'order' them so they can hold them.

Also by storing them in one gallon mylar bags first... I don't have to keep opening a bucket to get into the salt or sugar and opening it up to the potential to contaminants getting into the whole bucket. I just use up each mylar bag and then get another one.

This is similar to what we do with many bulk items (sugar, flour, rice, beans, oats) but I keep wondering & hoping someone could solve the issue of wasted air gaps in between the 1 gal Mylar or vacu-seal bags. Because there is quite a lot of dead air space in the 5 (7) gal buckets. I have in some buckets put a pair of new cotton socks or even cotton balls, something compressible, but wonder if there would be a better option to just keep those buckets full of food items.
Anyone have a solution?

 

[IamZeke]

This is similar to what we do with many bulk items (sugar, flour, rice, beans, oats) but I keep wondering & hoping someone could solve the issue of wasted air gaps in between the 1 gal Mylar or vacu-seal bags. Because there is quite a lot of dead air space in the 5 (7) gal buckets. I have in some buckets put a pair of new cotton socks or even cotton balls, something compressible, but wonder if there would be a better option to just keep those buckets full of food items.
Anyone have a solution?

Yes, ditch the round buckets. Round buckets were originally shaped for strength to carry liquids.

Wrong tool for carrying roughly rectangle shapes like mylar bags. But when prepping food storage started there weren't many affordable outer containers and most were used for bulk loose storage using gas exchange methods back from the 70's to the 90s. The introduction of mylar should have coincided with a better shaped outer container. But by then the 5 gallon bucket idea had too much inertia and remained affordable. Mind you, the 5gal buckets are still fine for the foods kept in bulk. Salt and sugar bulk in 5 gal works fine. So do 5 gallon mylar bags for other bulk foods. But 1gal mylar in 5gal round buckets is just a big waste of space.

I went to totes. Others went to square frosting buckets mooched from bakeries.

Get a better shaped outer container or accept the loss of valuable food storage space.

And while you make your decisions stop buying more 5gal buckets.

 

[Toyboy]

I just have filled my buckets with bulk salt, it has been kept dry and is fine. for honey, i use mason jars. you can also get 1 gallon jugs with caps if you wanted something to pour from, but I use quart jars.

 

[merlinfire]

Yes, ditch the round buckets. Round buckets were originally shaped for strength to carry liquids.

Wrong tool for carrying roughly rectangle shapes like mylar bags. But when prepping food storage started there weren't many affordable outer containers and most were used for bulk loose storage using gas exchange methods back from the 70's to the 90s. The introduction of mylar should have coincided with a better shaped outer container. But by then the 5 gallon bucket idea had too much inertia and remained affordable. Mind you, the 5gal buckerts are still fine for the foods kept in bulk. Salt and sugar bulk in 5 gal works fine. So do 5 gallon mylar bags for other bulk foods. But 1gal mylar in 5gal round buckets is just a big waste of space.

I went to totes. Others went to square frosting buckets mooched from bakeries.

Get a better shaped outer container or accept the loss of valuable food storage space.

And while you make your decisions stop buying more 5gal buckets.

totes are good, i struggle to find good ones that are relatively airtight the way most buckets are nearly. i'm afraid a really small rat could slide in there. do you have a type you recommend?

 

[259722]

I transferred my honey from a plastic jug to small mason jars because I use so little honey.

Salt and Sugar - I use 5 gallon pails with omega lids. I bought walmart Great Value twist tie storage bags. I put the salt or sugar in these. About 4 cups for each bag. I set them in the pail one at a time. If they are not tied and set in somewhat loose they can mold into each other to close up the air gaps that are problematic with the mylar bags. After the bag is settled, I give the top of the bag a twist to close. I do not use the twist ties themselves. Now it is easy for me to get a bag out in small enough sizes for me to break it up if it gets solid.

I had originally stored 5 gal. of salt directly in the bucket and after a year it started setting up. Luckily, I caught it before I had to chip it out of the bucket

I like the round pails because they can be moved around and are very sturdy.

 

[Rett]

Just wanted to drop in and ask a quick question. I'm planning on buying a large quantity of this stuff.....i've got to run the numbers on our usage level, but i'd like to buy 10 years worth of supply, and if I have more room, going for longer. I know this stuff is supposed to last "forever", but I do have a few questions.

1) Sugar/Salt, just pouring it into food-grade buckets ok? Do I need to put something in the sugar to prevent moisture/clumping? I know for most perishable foods mylar is the way to go, but it's not actually necessary for salt and sugar is it?

2) Honey, does it matter what the containers are made from? My instinct tells me glass is better than plastic. Does it matter?

3) When it comes to sugar/salt, any tips for making it easier to use from the bucket? Maybe special 5-gal lids that have smaller openings or spouts or something?

4) Any other tips?

Good to have sealed containers stored in a temperature even environment. Sugar and salt can clump hard as a rock when air moisture gets to them.

Store Iodised salt. I just refill smaller containers from the bucket. Use the retail salt containers.

These small plastic containers I refill for belt kits, ration packs, back packs, vehicles and FAKs etc

I use non candying honey for storage.

 

[prairieskygirl]

I use some totes also, but... they are heavy. I prefer the buckets so I can easily move them. And, I've found that buckets stack sturdier and higher - safely. There is certainly a lot of wasted air space in round buckets. Getting the square ones help quite a bit. I'm cheap - so I refuse to buy buckets... I'd rather have some dead air space than be chucking out money for buckets. But - I also have the space to store lots of buckets; if I didn't - that might change my thought process.

 

[elliott264]

I just have filled my buckets with bulk salt, it has been kept dry and is fine. for honey, i use mason jars. you can also get 1 gallon jugs with caps if you wanted something to pour from, but I use quart jars.

I use quart jars for just about everything, including LTS salt and sugar. Theres still a bunch of 5&6 gallon buckets and mylar this n' thats in the mix but jars are the future in my house. Fill the jars, add a dessicant pack, seal and put back into the box the jars come in. Use a cardboard divider between the jars to prevent glass on glass contact. Once in the box, they stack nicely too. Just make sure to protect them from falling, especially if you're somewhere prone to earthquakes.

 

[IamZeke]

I use some totes also, but... they are heavy. I prefer the buckets so I can easily move them. And, I've found that buckets stack sturdier and higher - safely. There is certainly a lot of wasted air space in round buckets. Getting the square ones help quite a bit. I'm cheap - so I refuse to buy buckets... I'd rather have some dead air space than be chucking out money for buckets. But - I also have the space to store lots of buckets; if I didn't - that might change my thought process.

Bakeries go through lot of square plastic frosting buckets all the time.

It's not hard to get a constant supply for next to nothing.

Of course if you don't want to spend the time effort or spend the money then I can't help.

Also totes come affordably in many sizes. 5, 12, 17, 27, 38, and 55 gallon in just this one affordable strong brand.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Storage...=578,6859,566,584,6558&experienceName=default

 

[wellbuilt]

In y2k I used gray plastic tuba wear tubs 24x18x18 it had a Lid but it dident seal very well.
I put beans sugar salt flower pasta coffee .
Packed every thing in good ziplock bags and packed them in tight .
Used packing tape to seal around the lid to seal them .
Every thing has been in good shape when I opened it . Bag beans where hard and I have to cook them for ever but Edible for sure .
I buy my honey in 5lb glass jars with plastic lids good stuff I just keep it in a dark area .
Once open it will get hard in a year or so but if you heat it it will turn back to honey again .

 

[Astronomy]

If you have cats (or friends with cats), most emptied cat litter product buckets are square/rectangular. As sturdy as plastic round buckets, stackable, and come with an integral handle and snap lid.

The ones I buy range in size from 4-5 gallons and are designed to hold up to 40 lbs of litter. Denser stuff like salt easily fits within the same space & weight parameters.

I use 'em for bulk salt storage. Up to 40# factory bags. Just drop bagged salt into bucket and snap folding lid closed. Done. I've never bothered with Mylar; just use the plastic factory bag the salt is sold in.

Been using 'em for salt storage for over a decade. Stacked up to 4 high. Work great.

For planning purposes, recommended dietary salt intake is 3 pounds, per adult, per year. So one adult would need a minimum of 30 lbs for 10 years. This would not include additional salt needed for bulk canning, curing, etc. Call it one 40# bucket per person as some folks tend to use more. Salt is cheap yet critical; store more than you think you need.

https://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=17703914&postcount=26

 

[IamZeke]

In y2k I used gray plastic tuba wear tubs 24x18x18 it had a Lid but it dident seal very well.
I put beans sugar salt flower pasta coffee .
Packed every thing in good ziplock bags and packed them in tight .
Used packing tape to seal around the lid to seal them .
Every thing has been in good shape when I opened it . Bag beans where hard and I have to cook them for ever but Edible for sure .
I buy my honey in 5lb glass jars with plastic lids good stuff I just keep it in a dark area .
Once open it will get hard in a year or so but if you heat it it will turn back to honey again .

Edible doesn't mean nutritious. Any actual food like rice, beans, etc from Y2K in ziplocs is basically empty calories now.

It all oxidized to nothing better than white sugar that tastes different.

 

[merlinfire]

Edible doesn't mean nutritious. Any actual food like rice, beans, etc from Y2K in ziplocs is basically empty calories now.

It all oxidized to nothing better than white sugar that tastes different.

I have my doubts that it's quite so clear-cut.

Some of the vitamin value remains. And the minerals are still there. There's no chemical process to turn magnesium into carbon.

 

[IamZeke]

I have my doubts that it's quite so clear-cut.

Some of the vitamin value remains. And the minerals are still there. There's no chemical process to turn magnesium into carbon.

What do you mean by clear cut? Oxidation damage is well known. Why would food companies even bother with O2As if oxidation wasn't a factor?

They put O2As in food expected to be used in barely a year or two. Grocery stores don't cater to customers looking to store food a decade, but still you can find O2As in many prepared foods. Why would Mountain House, LDS, and so many storage food companies bother with O2As if they didn't make a notable difference?

Minerals are not a substitute for vitamins. You can't just have some and skip others. Proper nutrition requires all of the micronutrients. Just because different foods degrade at different rates doesn't get you off the hook either.

The internet is filled with scholarly journal articles on the effects of oxidation of food. Almost none of them are positive, unless you are talking controlled fermentation. To say it isn't credible is just refusing to look. Not understanding all the data isn't excuse to dismiss it either. Nuclear physics is complicated too and lack of understanding doesn't defuse the nuke.


Look, you wanted info on salt, sugar, and honey. Because of the power of preservative value of refined salt and sugar you don't need oxidation protection, but the refining plays a huge role too. But once you leave salt and sugar products the game changes. Storage food companies use O2As for a reason.

Letting Y2K food sit 20 years does it no favors at all. If all it needed were ziplocs you can bet the storage food companies would skip the mylar and O2As because all food is a thin profit margin business. 50 cents a gallon volume is cheap for individuals, but for a food packer that's a fat boost in profits.

Some light reading: https://apfoodonline.com/industry/ensuring-shelf-life-through-oxidative-stability/

 

[merlinfire]

What do you mean by clear cut? Oxidation damage is well known. Why would food companies even bother with O2As if oxidation wasn't a factor?

They put O2As in food expected to be used in barely a year or two. Grocery stores don't cater to customers looking to store food a decade, but still you can find O2As in many prepared foods. Why would Mountain House, LDS, and so many storage food companies bother with O2As if they didn't make a notable difference?

Minerals are not a substitute for vitamins. You can't just have some and skip others. Proper nutrition requires all of the micronutrients. Just because different foods degrade at different rates doesn't get you off the hook either.

The internet is filled with scholarly journal articles on the effects of oxidation of food. Almost none of them are positive, unless you are talking controlled fermentation. To say it isn't credible is just refusing to look. Not understanding all the data isn't excuse to dismiss it either. Nuclear physics is complicated too and lack of understanding doesn't defuse the nuke.


Look, you wanted info on salt, sugar, and honey. Because of the power of preservative value of refined salt and sugar you don't need oxidation protection, but the refining plays a huge role too. But once you leave salt and sugar products the game changes. Storage food companies use O2As for a reason.

Letting Y2K food sit 20 years does it no favors at all. If all it needed were ziplocs you can bet the storage food companies would skip the mylar and O2As because all food is a thin profit margin business. 50 cents a gallon volume is cheap for individuals, but for a food packer that's a fat boost in profits.

Some light reading: https://apfoodonline.com/industry/ensuring-shelf-life-through-oxidative-stability/

I'm not saying oxidation doesn't exist. I just don't agree with your "it's just sugar with more steps" argument.

 

[dealfinder500]

If you don't already have mason jars and are going to buy them, for storing dry foods I think the wide mouth are much easier. You can fit a 1/4 c scoop in them, too. I always save all my used canning lids because they work great for dry foods.

Sugar can clump over time. It will be fine stored just in a bucket. Put it in mylar or even just ziploc bags for convenience sake inside the bucket. I stored some in 2 liter soda bottles once. ONCE. When it hardens it's hard to get out!

Honey will crystalize over time but it's still fine to eat - just warm it up. Glass containers are better than plastic. I've gotten the 32oz containers on sale before and dumped them into jars. Sometimes you can find bee farmers (I think there's a better word but it's past my bed time) and buy honey in 5lb containers, and then break it down into glass jars.